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Old August 28th, 2009, 12:21 PM   #281
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I have worked with government programs.

Not saying they were any better, but that was over 25 years ago that we dealt with them directly.

Now, with my Mother in law, my wife spends quite a bit of time helping her with her affairs. Once you get past the beauracrats to gain access to the programs, things seem to run pretty well.

Not saying that everyone in this counrty will even have to deal with the beauracrats any more or less than they do with private insurance. Have had my share of problems with them as well.
Wouldn't it be better if your employer payed to you directly the money they now spend to cover your healthcare? Then you could take that money and shop for healthcare yourself. If you had bad customer service or high prices you could drop your carrier and move to the next insurance company. That would spur competition and lower prices. Bad insurers would go out of business and good insurers would thrive.

Free market solutions.
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Old August 28th, 2009, 12:27 PM   #282
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Wouldn't it be better if your employer payed to you directly the money they now spend to cover your healthcare? Then you could take that money and shop for healthcare yourself. If you had bad customer service or high prices you could drop your carrier and move to the next insurance company. That would spur competition and lower prices. Bad insurers would go out of business and good insurers would thrive.

Free market solutions.
I like this idea. Look at car insurance. They work their asses off advertising and trying to stay competitive to earn your business. I just want a cute little business geico to sell me on my health insurance. I don't give a shit if my employer doesn't pay for it anymore, my employer would just pay me more, and i'd buy my own.
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Old August 28th, 2009, 12:37 PM   #283
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Wouldn't it be better if your employer payed to you directly the money they now spend to cover your healthcare? Then you could take that money and shop for healthcare yourself. If you had bad customer service or high prices you could drop your carrier and move to the next insurance company. That would spur competition and lower prices. Bad insurers would go out of business and good insurers would thrive.

Free market solutions.

That should be part of the health care reform, I Like it.
If course that is only part of the solution.



BTW, I can choose between several different providers each year.
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Old August 28th, 2009, 12:56 PM   #284
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Wouldn't it be better if your employer payed to you directly the money they now spend to cover your healthcare? Then you could take that money and shop for healthcare yourself. If you had bad customer service or high prices you could drop your carrier and move to the next insurance company. That would spur competition and lower prices. Bad insurers would go out of business and good insurers would thrive.

Free market solutions.
That might work to increase competition and drive down costs. Of course it would create chaos for a while as a couple of hundred million people suddenly start shopping around for health insurance.

Unlike Pete I've mostly worked for fairly small companies and at best get a choice between 2 different types of plans from the same insurance company.
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Old August 29th, 2009, 08:16 AM   #285
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I don't get to choose anymore as my company has one plan, it's a very good plan, but there is no other option. I have at other companies been able to choose between 3 or 4 selected providers but only once a year during open enrollment periods.

If I was on my own as I suggested I could change providers anytime for any reason, not just during open enrollment.

The other plus in this plan is a spouses income. My wife's company would pay her for the insurance that they currently offer to her but she isn't utilizing. She on my plan because the coverage is better. So she is essentially not being paid the same wage as her co-workers right now. That money would come back to her in her pay check, at which point we could use it to pay for insurance together. Putting more money in our account. But then again my company may not pay me to cover her as they do now, so it could be a wash.

It also solves the problem of gay marriage benefits, a big argument in the gay marriage debate. Insurance companies would be free to create benefit packages for unmarried couples and their children. Those individuals could pay out of their own pocket from the extra money their employers would be paying to them in cash instead of providing company healthcare. Marriage would not have to be a pre-requisite for coverage. This would be a PR dream for some insurance company.

Lower costs through increased competition would bring more of the people who can't now afford coverage into the range of affordability, reducing the number of uninsured.

Basically your cutting a middle man, your employer, out of the equation. They'd be happy about it because they don't have to pay someone to manage your insurance for you anymore.
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Old August 29th, 2009, 01:55 PM   #286
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One problem with a systems of not having group plans would be that those people who might be considered high risk might have a difficult time finding someone to offer them insurance, and if it did it would be at a very high rate. At least with a group plan those people can get insurance though the group at the same rate as everyone else.

The solution to that, which is included in many of the bill floating around, is to start these "risk pools" where every insurance company pays a certain amount per policy into a pool, and can draw from the pool money to cover certain illnesses which require very expensive treatments.
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Old August 29th, 2009, 03:32 PM   #287
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Wouldn't it be better if your employer payed to you directly the money they now spend to cover your healthcare? Then you could take that money and shop for healthcare yourself. If you had bad customer service or high prices you could drop your carrier and move to the next insurance company. That would spur competition and lower prices. Bad insurers would go out of business and good insurers would thrive.

Free market solutions.
Dumb Idea....
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Old August 29th, 2009, 05:16 PM   #288
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Dumb Idea....
I was going to ask what you didn't like about it but after thinking about it I think I already know.
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Old August 29th, 2009, 06:55 PM   #289
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Dumb Idea....
Again Toes manages to WOW us with another insightful and well thought out editorial. Thanks Toes for helping us see the light.
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Old August 29th, 2009, 07:30 PM   #290
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Again Toes manages to WOW us with another insightful and well thought out editorial. Thanks Toes for helping us see the light.
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Old August 29th, 2009, 07:36 PM   #291
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I was going to ask what you didn't like about it but after thinking about it I think I already know.
I never said I didn't like the idea I just said it was a dumb idea. It's about like Obama's plan, not thought out with a ton of potential problems.
Just like Obama's plan you jumped all over it, at least your consistant.....
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Old August 29th, 2009, 08:00 PM   #292
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I never said I didn't like the idea I just said it was a dumb idea. It's about like Obama's plan, not thought out with a ton of potential problems.
Just like Obama's plan you jumped all over it, at least your consistant.....
I made one post in support and one discussing a potential problem and a possible solution. I'm not sure how that is jumping all over it.

And since the conservatives don't seem to want to talk about it I'll say what they should be saying...

This idea infringes on an employer's right to offer whatever compensation or benefits he chooses. If the employer and employee agree that the employer will pay for health care for the employees it's none of the governments business.
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Old August 30th, 2009, 07:35 AM   #293
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I made one post in support and one discussing a potential problem and a possible solution. I'm not sure how that is jumping all over it.

And since the conservatives don't seem to want to talk about it I'll say what they should be saying...

This idea infringes on an employer's right to offer whatever compensation or benefits he chooses. If the employer and employee agree that the employer will pay for health care for the employees it's none of the governments business.
I don't know where your getting conservatives don't want to talk about it from. Just flip on the T.V, and almost every news cast you have a conservative voicing his opposition to Obamas plan.
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Old August 30th, 2009, 08:26 AM   #294
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I never said I didn't like the idea I just said it was a dumb idea. It's about like Obama's plan, not thought out with a ton of potential problems.
Just like Obama's plan you jumped all over it, at least your consistant.....
It's a start in the right direction. What problems do you see?

It's not like Obama's plan at all. It doesn't involve the government for starters.
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Old August 30th, 2009, 09:36 AM   #295
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I don't know where your getting conservatives don't want to talk about it from. Just flip on the T.V, and almost every news cast you have a conservative voicing his opposition to Obamas plan.
I was referring to the lack of meaningful responses from the conservatives to 3-foot's idea in this thread.
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Old August 30th, 2009, 12:47 PM   #296
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It's a start in the right direction. What problems do you see?

It's not like Obama's plan at all. It doesn't involve the government for starters.
Health insurance is part of a compensation package that is given by the employer.

Employers can simply drop the healthcare part of their compensation package and give the employee nothing.

Employers are not going to give an employee $1,400.00 a month if the employer can get some shit insurance for $199.00 a month, and offer that as the cash compensation.

Employers that would keep an insurance compensation of some type would likely make it everybody goes on our policy, or everybody gets the money. That would screw the guy that didn't want to shop for insurance.

Negotiating with insurance companys would be harder for employers because they won't have as many people on a policy.

Employees that opted for the cash would now be taxed on that money.

I actually like the idea, because it gives an employer a way to cut costs. I say all employers should cut out the health insurance compensation in their packages.

You want insurance go buy it.

You would see the insurance companys drop their pants to get business, and you would see a ton more people not buying health insurance....
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Old August 30th, 2009, 12:48 PM   #297
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I was referring to the lack of meaningful responses from the conservatives to 3-foot's idea in this thread.
My mistake
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Old August 31st, 2009, 01:22 AM   #298
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Wouldn't it be better if your employer payed to you directly the money they now spend to cover your healthcare? Then you could take that money and shop for healthcare yourself. If you had bad customer service or high prices you could drop your carrier and move to the next insurance company. That would spur competition and lower prices. Bad insurers would go out of business and good insurers would thrive.

Free market solutions.
Problem I see is how many people will use the extra money in their checks on a new car or flat screen TV, instead of insurance. Then they get sick and all the liberals want to feel bad for them cuz they have no insurance. Jobs pay this way now in a way. I've taken a pay cut to get a better health care plan. Not everyone is willing to. Which is part of the problem.
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Old August 31st, 2009, 11:02 AM   #299
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Health insurance is part of a compensation package that is given by the employer.

Employers can simply drop the healthcare part of their compensation package and give the employee nothing.
True today and with this idea.

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Employers are not going to give an employee $1,400.00 a month if the employer can get some shit insurance for $199.00 a month, and offer that as the cash compensation.
I guess what I was getting at was a salary increase equal to the current cost being paid by the employer to the employee instead of coverage. After that increase you are on your own for insurance.

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Employers that would keep an insurance compensation of some type would likely make it everybody goes on our policy, or everybody gets the money. That would screw the guy that didn't want to shop for insurance.

Negotiating with insurance companys would be harder for employers because they won't have as many people on a policy.
No more employer provided insurance for anyone. If your too lazy to shop for insurance, then don't get insurance. When you get sick and die I will have no sympathy.

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Employees that opted for the cash would now be taxed on that money.
Yeah I am sure the gov't would want some. Pre-tax deductions into a medical account would be possible, kind of like a 401k for medical insurance and medical related bills. Only congress would object to that.

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I actually like the idea, because it gives an employer a way to cut costs. I say all employers should cut out the health insurance compensation in their packages.

You want insurance go buy it.

You would see the insurance companys drop their pants to get business, and you would see a ton more people not buying health insurance....
Exactly.

Those who didn't buy insurance would be on their own if something happens. No bailouts no handouts. If you gamble with your insurance coverage and lose, too bad, you die.

The only safe guard against that is mandating a minimum coverage like PLPD car insurance, but I don't like the idea of forced coverage. It's not the same as car insurance anyway because if you don't have health insurance the only person at risk is you. Car insurance is more for those around you. Maybe you make emergency room coverage manditory and leave the rest to be decided by the individual but that could be a slippery slope.
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Old August 31st, 2009, 06:08 PM   #300
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One thing that kaaps poping up is government involvment, thats the biggest no no of all.

The other thing is, one of the big items of leverage used by the liberals on Oblablas plan is that the unisnsured costs everbody else by not paying their bills. I think its a crock but thats their argument.

For an employer to give an employee what they are paying to an insurance company lends no incentive to the employer. He would now have to match the S.S. on the additional income to the employee so it would cost him more.

I think everybody should realize that insurance is not some type of right, employers are not obligated to provide it, or give the employee the cost of it.
Forcing insurance is a bad idea, as this is what drives the cost of insurance up, when you force it you have now created somewhat of a monopoly on that consumer product. I can't think of to many things in the private sector that the government forces you to buy, other than insurance....

People need to quit buying insurance, and start refusing to pay high medical costs. Thats the only way healthcare will become affordable. The people have to force the medical field and the insurance companys into being reasonable, not the government.
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