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Old August 17th, 2009, 09:14 PM   #1
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Default Christian Values in America.

It's been said here several times that our country was built on Christian values.

Isn't compassion and concern for your fellow man a Christian Value? Isn't that what Jesus is talking about here in Mathew 25: 31-46

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesus
31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
So if compassion and concern for your fellow man is a Christian value, commanded by Jesus himself, And the USA is supposed to be a country built on and run on Christian values, how can you then say that it's "unamerican" to have programs that feed the hungry and help the sick?

I don't get it.
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Old August 17th, 2009, 09:25 PM   #2
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You see Bruce, you used that bible quote to support a pre-existing idea in your head and one that is pushed by CERTAIN Christians. If you look hard enough, you can find quotes that support almost any idea.

Plus, you're talking about the wrong Jesus, the Conservative Christians worship Supply Side Jesus.


they also listen to John Hagee:


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Old August 17th, 2009, 09:33 PM   #3
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This country is in the toilet because (in part) of abuse of assistance programs. I am all about feeding a hungry man (or anybody for that matter) who is down on his luck and just needs a boost to get back on his feet. I do not, however, feel that it is my reponsibility to feed a hungry man (or woman) who sits on their ass and makes excuses as to why they are in the position they are. I have witness many thousands of examples of assistance abuse with the welfare system, workman's comp, unemployment, to name a few.

I think what this country really needs is a shift in work and personal ethics. Instead of a large percentage of Americans feeling they are entitled to something for nothing, we need to develope a sense of responsiblity for our own actions and a willingness to work harder (or smarter) instead of looking for handouts when the chips are down.
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Old August 17th, 2009, 09:49 PM   #4
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Well I believe that it is up to the church and believers to do this as they do and not up to the government. The governing authorities of the day did not hand out.
NIV Acts 4:32-35 The Believers Share Thier Possessions

All the believers were one at heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they had.33With great power the apostles contiued to testifiy to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and much grace was upon them all.34There were no needy persons among them. From time to time those who owned lands or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales35and put it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to anyone as he had need.
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Old August 17th, 2009, 09:50 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
It's been said here several times that our country was built on Christian values.

Isn't compassion and concern for your fellow man a Christian Value? Isn't that what Jesus is talking about here in Mathew 25: 31-46



So if compassion and concern for your fellow man is a Christian value, commanded by Jesus himself, And the USA is supposed to be a country built on and run on Christian values, how can you then say that it's "unamerican" to have programs that feed the hungry and help the sick?

I don't get it.
Programs = forced giving. Not a changing of heart, and a gift of service from the heart.

There are also passages that speak towards acts of service and charity by the individual and specifically against institutionalizing/taxing it.
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Old August 17th, 2009, 10:03 PM   #6
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This country is in the toilet because (in part) of abuse of assistance programs. I am all about feeding a hungry man (or anybody for that matter) who is down on his luck and just needs a boost to get back on his feet. I do not, however, feel that it is my reponsibility to feed a hungry man (or woman) who sits on their ass and makes excuses as to why they are in the position they are. I have witness many thousands of examples of assistance abuse with the welfare system, workman's comp, unemployment, to name a few.

I think what this country really needs is a shift in work and personal ethics. Instead of a large percentage of Americans feeling they are entitled to something for nothing, we need to develope a sense of responsiblity for our own actions and a willingness to work harder (or smarter) instead of looking for handouts when the chips are down.
Again nugget you bring substance to the table. I would not waste my time as to listen to the clip from mike, but to put that aside.
I do believe that we as americans need to get to work and not wait for it.
How old was George Washington when he commanded the navy ship?
12 years old.
A BOY in our standards but very much a man and that is the way it was, if you did not step up you got stepped on.
Today you would not think about sending our kids out to get a job at 12 years old, heck no, here son, 10 bucks for you go buy something, wait let me do that for you son.
We spoil our kids and do everything for them and allow them to do nothing for themselves and it shows by the way our country is.
This generation has always gotten things handed to them so why stop now. It will be this generation that will bleed this country to poverty. It shows by the debt we are all in. Can't wait for it buy it on credit.
The future of this country is on credit, to CHINA.:poke
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Old August 17th, 2009, 10:06 PM   #7
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I would listen to Hagee 7 days a week before I would listen to Al Franken even once, Franken is a bafoon
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Old August 17th, 2009, 10:10 PM   #8
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Again nugget you bring substance to the table. I would not waste my time as to listen to the clip from mike, but to put that aside.
I do believe that we as americans need to get to work and not wait for it.
How old was George Washington when he commanded the navy ship?
12 years old.
A BOY in our standards but very much a man and that is the way it was, if you did not step up you got stepped on.
Today you would not think about sending our kids out to get a job at 12 years old, heck no, here son, 10 bucks for you go buy something, wait let me do that for you son.
We spoil our kids and do everything for them and allow them to do nothing for themselves and it shows by the way our country is.
This generation has always gotten things handed to them so why stop now. It will be this generation that will bleed this country to poverty. It shows by the debt we are all in. Can't wait for it buy it on credit.
The future of this country is on credit, to CHINA.:poke
Ask him about your religion. You'll get some really substantive stuff! :)
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Old August 17th, 2009, 10:10 PM   #9
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I would listen to Hagee 7 days a week before I would listen to Al Franken even once, Franken is a bafoon
Hagee is a psychopath, Franken is funny.
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Old August 17th, 2009, 10:12 PM   #10
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Well I believe that it is up to the church and believers to do this as they do and not up to the government. The governing authorities of the day did not hand out.
But you say that now we do have a Christian government. So shouldn't it be behaving more Christian like?

OK. So if it's a Christian value that you agree with you want the government to impose it on everyone, but if it is one that could cost you money you want it left to the church. Got it.


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Originally Posted by aber61 View Post
NIV Acts 4:32-35 The Believers Share Thier Possessions

All the believers were one at heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they had.33With great power the apostles contiued to testifiy to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and much grace was upon them all.34There were no needy persons among them. From time to time those who owned lands or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales35and put it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to anyone as he had need.
Sounds like a bunch on Communists. Lets read on to see what happens to those that don't comply:

Acts 5:1-11

Quote:
Ananias and Sapphira

1Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property. 2With his wife's full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles' feet.
3Then Peter said, "Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4Didn't it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn't the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God."

5When Ananias heard this, he fell down and died. And great fear seized all who heard what had happened. 6Then the young men came forward, wrapped up his body, and carried him out and buried him.

7About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. 8Peter asked her, "Tell me, is this the price you and Ananias got for the land?"
"Yes," she said, "that is the price."

9Peter said to her, "How could you agree to test the Spirit of the Lord? Look! The feet of the men who buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out also."

10At that moment she fell down at his feet and died. Then the young men came in and, finding her dead, carried her out and buried her beside her husband. 11Great fear seized the whole church and all who heard about these events.
So those that didn't give all to the collective were struck dead by God. I'm not sure what point you were trying to make but to me it seems to show that God supports Communists.
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Old August 17th, 2009, 10:28 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
It's been said here several times that our country was built on Christian values.

Isn't compassion and concern for your fellow man a Christian Value? Isn't that what Jesus is talking about here in Mathew 25: 31-46



So if compassion and concern for your fellow man is a Christian value, commanded by Jesus himself, And the USA is supposed to be a country built on and run on Christian values, how can you then say that it's "unamerican" to have programs that feed the hungry and help the sick?

I don't get it.
When the government takes its not charity or compassion. Plus what right do you or anyone else have to tell me who I give time or money to. As not all charitable donations are given in cash or money forms, one can donate time. In the past I have spent time making toys for children's hospital (Chicago), Give Kids the World in Fla. Along with cash donations when I could. As of late I have raised money for St. Judes, and donated time to C.H.U.M. in Dansville MI helping with the mentally disabled. The difference is these are organizations that I want to give time/money to for reason of my own heart not yours. It is not the governments place to come in and take from me to give to another no matter how good the cause. As I may have other cause that are just as deserving, I may want to donate to that would then be with less funding.
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Old August 17th, 2009, 10:30 PM   #12
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When the government takes its not charity or compassion. Plus what right do you or anyone else have to tell me who I give time or money to. As not all charitable donations are given in cash or money forms, one can donate time. In the past I have spent time making toys for children's hospital (Chicago), Give Kids the World in Fla. Along with cash donations when I could. As of late I have raised money for St. Judes, and donated time to C.H.U.M. in Dansville MI helping with the mentally disabled. The difference is these are organizations that I want to give time/money to for reason of my own heart not yours. It is not the governments place to come in and take from me to give to another no matter how good the cause. As I may have other cause that are just as deserving, I may want to donate to that would then be with less funding.
I don't think that Brewmenn is promoting this idea, just trying to call out hypocrisy on the part of conservative christians who say that America is founded on "christian values".
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Old August 17th, 2009, 10:39 PM   #13
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Again nugget you bring substance to the table. I would not waste my time as to listen to the clip from mike, but to put that aside.
I do believe that we as americans need to get to work and not wait for it.
How old was George Washington when he commanded the navy ship?
12 years old.
Please site source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aber61 View Post
A BOY in our standards but very much a man and that is the way it was, if you did not step up you got stepped on.

Today you would not think about sending our kids out to get a job at 12 years old, heck no, here son, 10 bucks for you go buy something, wait let me do that for you son.
We spoil our kids and do everything for them and allow them to do nothing for themselves and it shows by the way our country is.
This generation has always gotten things handed to them so why stop now. It will be this generation that will bleed this country to poverty. It shows by the debt we are all in. Can't wait for it buy it on credit.
The future of this country is on credit, to CHINA.:poke
More from Jesus:

Mathew 7:1-5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesus
Judging Others

1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
It might interest you that while I was contemplating starting this thread I pulled out my Bible and let it fall open. It fell open to the above verse. I would have never found it otherwise. I figured it was a sign. (true story)
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Old August 17th, 2009, 10:39 PM   #14
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But you say that now we do have a Christian government. So shouldn't it be behaving more Christian like?

OK. So if it's a Christian value that you agree with you want the government to impose it on everyone, but if it is one that could cost you money you want it left to the church. Got it.




Sounds like a bunch on Communists. Lets read on to see what happens to those that don't comply:

Acts 5:1-11



So those that didn't give all to the collective were struck dead by God. I'm not sure what point you were trying to make but to me it seems to show that God supports Communists.
For starters it is not up to the government to take care of people, Republican or Democrat and you call the Christian ummm.
The Bush admin had held the national day of pray at the white house every year, until Obama got in and guess what? He did not hold to the same Christian values that the previous admin had held onto, Obama had did exactly what the clinton admin did, not hold the national day of prayer at the white house. Does that tell you something about , they are there to help themselves and thats it. The programs that they say help people only keep them dependent on the government. It's like the saying, feed a man a meal, he'll come back for more, teach him to fish, he'll feed himself for life.

And the only reason they were struck dead was that they were not honest with the Lord, if they said we have, x amount of dollars and we will give this much and keep this much for ourselves. See they lied and God knows your heart, you can't fool Him.
If you knew God and his word you would have known that and you would be on my side on this topic, but I relize you do not and it is not your fault, it is said that you will not understand the words of God unless you are born again. You can read all you want and you can think you are interrpeting the bible correctly but you are mistaken, ask any Christian and he will help you with your struggle
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Old August 17th, 2009, 10:49 PM   #15
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I don't think that Brewmenn is promoting this idea, just trying to call out hypocrisy on the part of conservative christians who say that America is founded on "christian values".
Do your home work mike, it is founded on Christain values by our founding fathers that for the most part all but 5 or 6 were not Christains but believed in God.
Did you know that our leaders printed bibles and had it to be study material in our schools.
Did you also know that our leaders held church in the white house and prayed for hours before beginning the duties of the day.
I have heard somebody say you are a teacher?
And this you did not know or were willing to overlook because that would mean that you would have to recognize the existence of God.
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Old August 17th, 2009, 10:55 PM   #16
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Do your home work mike, it is founded on Christain values by our founding fathers that for the most part all but 5 or 6 were not Christains but believed in God.
Did you know that our leaders printed bibles and had it to be study material in our schools.
Did you also know that our leaders held church in the white house and prayed for hours before beginning the duties of the day.
I have heard somebody say you are a teacher?
And this you did not know or were willing to overlook because that would mean that you would have to recognize the existence of God.
But Mike did do his homework. His post was 100% actuate, as he correctly interpreted my intentions.
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Old August 17th, 2009, 10:55 PM   #17
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Please site source.



More from Jesus:

Mathew 7:1-5



It might interest you that while I was contemplating starting this thread I pulled out my Bible and let it fall open. It fell open to the above verse. I would have never found it otherwise. I figured it was a sign. (true story)
So may be God is telling you something about yourself.
As for washington being 12 and a navy captain. Focus on the family 103.5fm at 11:30 am tommorrow
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Old August 17th, 2009, 11:04 PM   #18
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For starters it is not up to the government to take care of people, Republican or Democrat and you call the Christian ummm.
The Bush admin had held the national day of pray at the white house every year, until Obama got in and guess what? He did not hold to the same Christian values that the previous admin had held onto, Obama had did exactly what the clinton admin did, not hold the national day of prayer at the white house. Does that tell you something about , they are there to help themselves and thats it. The programs that they say help people only keep them dependent on the government. It's like the saying, feed a man a meal, he'll come back for more, teach him to fish, he'll feed himself for life.

And the only reason they were struck dead was that they were not honest with the Lord, if they said we have, x amount of dollars and we will give this much and keep this much for ourselves. See they lied and God knows your heart, you can't fool Him.
If you knew God and his word you would have known that and you would be on my side on this topic, but I relize you do not and it is not your fault, it is said that you will not understand the words of God unless you are born again. You can read all you want and you can think you are interrpeting the bible correctly but you are mistaken, ask any Christian and he will help you with your struggle
So if it's not the governments job to take care of the people (a Christian value) why is it the governments job to impose other Christian values?

I thought The Bible was supposed to be for all people. I didn't know it was some code only able to be understood by those who were "born again". BTW I went to church just about every Sunday for the first 18 or so years of my life. Baptized and everything. I now consider myself, for the most part, an agnostic.
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Old August 17th, 2009, 11:15 PM   #19
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So may be God is telling you something about yourself.
As for washington being 12 and a navy captain. Focus on the family 103.5fm at 11:30 am tommorrow
Maybe? But I wasn't really trying to judge. I just wanted to get an explanation of something I didn't understand. (and do some recreational arguing)

All of the sources I can find put Washington's entrance to the military at around age 20. But he was working as a surveyor in his teens.
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Old August 17th, 2009, 11:18 PM   #20
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Ask him about your religion. You'll get some really substantive stuff! :)
Did you hear the one about the dyslexic Athiest? He didn't believe in Dog.
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