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Old August 20th, 2009, 07:45 PM   #141
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If you want to reform anything, reform the legal issues surrounding how people can sue doctors when their kid is born with a defect that isn't any fault of the doctor's for example, and reform the billing.

But, do we really want the US government...the most wasteful, inefficient, expensive, heads up their ass, can't run a profitable business even if it was selling toilet paper, running our healthcare? Think of your last trip to the SOS. You probably waited a long time, dealt with a grumpy person, and were probably annoyed with the way the system worked.

I also fear that this opens a door for the government to invade our lives even more. Pretty soon because you have national healthcare forced on you, they can determine how many kids you will have, when you're not worth paying for anymore, do genetic screenings for health issues, etc. It's too much. Pretty soon we'll all wake up and realize we're now a socialist nation. I want the government interfering with my life as little as possible, and I want to make my own choices.


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Old August 20th, 2009, 07:47 PM   #142
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No one should die in this country because of a treatable disease.
you are right. They should get insurance and go to the doctor to be treated.
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Old August 20th, 2009, 07:54 PM   #143
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Bruce you are "a pinko commie liberal pussy ", but I know you mean well and are a nice guy so I will let it slide.

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my example is of a person who does pay for her health insurance, She is gainfully employed. Her skills are very marketable. She is no slacker or slouch.
That's nice. Now what about all the people out there that ARE slackers?

I am sure there are good things in their plan. I dont think we need the government running anything though. They can barley run what they have.

I am not a veteran but I have never heard anything great about the care they get. Yes, I understand that only the bad gets advertised. Do we really want them to have more to do when they cant get it right now?




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I don't really fully agree with forcing people into some kind of private or public health care, but I can see the point in doing so.


I think the idea here is a little from everybody, into the pool helps the whole, like insurance.......


We are still a free country, right?

I will pay my own way thank you. If I lose my job (which I will in the next 6 months) I will go without or do what ever I have to and get coverage again.

I dont expect you, Bruce, Jeff or anyone else to pay my way. I will gladly take any $$ you send my way but it is not expected.

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They have been there for a long time already.

Ever hear of government regulation?
That doesnt make it right.

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Old August 21st, 2009, 08:45 AM   #144
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Bruce you are "a pinko commie liberal pussy ", but I know you mean well and are a nice guy so I will let it slide.



That's nice. Now what about all the people out there that ARE slackers?

I am sure there are good things in their plan. I dont think we need the government running anything though. They can barley run what they have.

I am not a veteran but I have never heard anything great about the care they get. Yes, I understand that only the bad gets advertised. Do we really want them to have more to do when they cant get it right now?




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We are still a free country, right?

I will pay my own way thank you. If I lose my job (which I will in the next 6 months) I will go without or do what ever I have to and get coverage again.

I dont expect you, Bruce, Jeff or anyone else to pay my way. I will gladly take any $$ you send my way but it is not expected.

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That doesnt make it right.
I posted in another thread my thoughts about the "slackers" and how the welfare system should be reformed to only a short term safety net rather than a career choice.
And how those that are working hard, but can not afford the cost of insurance (and all of their other bills), should not be punished by defeating real reform.

Part of the reform plan is to make insurance coverage affordable to those that do not have employer provided insurance and have to get it on thier own.
The public option is about pooling resources from multiple providers and allow individuals to choose what works for them. There will still be premiums to pay. There will still be choices on the level you want to pay for.
The government sets the standards these providers must meet in thier policies.

Of course, that is just based on what I read in the actual bill.


Oh, and my comment on regulation had nothing to do with being right or not. I was responding to someone who indicated there was no regulation now, but would be if this reform bill passed.

When it comes to public safety, regulation can be a good thing. Setting standards so our cars have brake systems capable of stopping the weight of the car is a good thing. Because there will always be someone who wants to cut corners. Sad part is, government regulation has gotten to be too intrusive in some industries, and not intrusive enough in others. IMO.
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Old August 21st, 2009, 09:05 AM   #145
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I posted in another thread my thoughts about the "slackers" and how the welfare system should be reformed to only a short term safety net rather than a career choice.
And how those that are working hard, but can not afford the cost of insurance (and all of their other bills), should not be punished by defeating real reform.

Part of the reform plan is to make insurance coverage affordable to those that do not have employer provided insurance and have to get it on thier own.
The public option is about pooling resources from multiple providers and allow individuals to choose what works for them. There will still be premiums to pay. There will still be choices on the level you want to pay for.
The government sets the standards these providers must meet in thier policies.

Of course, that is just based on what I read in the actual bill.


Oh, and my comment on regulation had nothing to do with being right or not. I was responding to someone who indicated there was no regulation now, but would be if this reform bill passed.

When it comes to public safety, regulation can be a good thing. Setting standards so our cars have brake systems capable of stopping the weight of the car is a good thing. Because there will always be someone who wants to cut corners. Sad part is, government regulation has gotten to be too intrusive in some industries, and not intrusive enough in others. IMO.
Isn't America about being the best you can be and always striving for more?

So if someone is comfortable with just working at McDonald's the rest of their lives and cannot afford insurance because of it, we should just hand it over to them? Bullshit.

With all the student loans, education programs, GED programs and all this other crap out there, if you have a will there's a way.

Insurance should be more affordable and available. The principle of just handing it over is very flawed.
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Old August 21st, 2009, 09:20 AM   #146
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Isn't America about being the best you can be and always striving for more?

So if someone is comfortable with just working at McDonald's the rest of their lives and cannot afford insurance because of it, we should just hand it over to them? Bullshit.

With all the student loans, education programs, GED programs and all this other crap out there, if you have a will there's a way.

Insurance should be more affordable and available. The principle of just handing it over is very flawed.
But what about the person working at McDonald's and 2 other jobs, none of which offer health insurance, while going to school to get that better job that will offer health insurance? Should they just hope and pray that they don't need health care?

I do agree with you last comment. The question is, what to do to make it more affordable, and how affordable does it need to be.
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Old August 21st, 2009, 09:21 AM   #147
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The public option is about pooling resources from multiple providers and allow individuals to choose what works for them. There will still be premiums to pay. There will still be choices on the level you want to pay for.
The government sets the standards these providers must meet in thier policies.
WOW

The public option will replace and do away with group plans.

That is the problem.

But what is scary is you are still blinded by the light. It is not about healthcare.
It is a powerplay. It is about controling peoples money so you control people and money.
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Old August 21st, 2009, 09:28 AM   #148
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But what about the person working at McDonald's and 2 other jobs, none of which offer health insurance, while going to school to get that better job that will offer health insurance? Should they just hope and pray that they don't need health care?
Working 3 jobs YOU, not me or anyone else, should be able to get(pay for) some coverage.

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Old August 21st, 2009, 09:33 AM   #149
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WOW

The public option will replace and do away with group plans.

That is the problem.

But what is scary is you are still blinded by the light. It is not about healthcare.
It is a powerplay. It is about controling peoples money so you control people and money.
So you're worried that the public option plan will be so good that people will choose it rather than private plans?
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Old August 21st, 2009, 09:50 AM   #150
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Working 3 jobs YOU, not me or anyone else, should be able to get(pay for) some coverage.
I'm sure there are a lot of people out there that wish that was that easy.
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Old August 21st, 2009, 09:54 AM   #151
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But what about the person working at McDonald's and 2 other jobs, none of which offer health insurance, while going to school to get that better job that will offer health insurance? Should they just hope and pray that they don't need health care?

I do agree with you last comment. The question is, what to do to make it more affordable, and how affordable does it need to be.
Tough shit?

Can anyone give me a damned good reason for why anyone deserves anything?

Just because you work hard and are poor doesn't mean you deserve anything. There are people that work hard their entire life, and don't end up being millionaires, having a 401k, health insurance, a new car, big screen tv, etc. These are not basic human rights.

When most of our ancestors came here, their entire life wasn't all that grand. But they had their freedom here, and their goal was to work harder to provide a better life for their children to be better off than they were.

I guess we must be to the point now that providing a better life for your children means having the most up to date electronics, new cars, trust funds, etc.

I am grateful to this country for the freedoms and rights I have. I am thankful and very grateful to my parents who have worked hard to put me in a better spot to start my life out from. Not once have I ever thought what they have given me is some sort of God given right, or that I deserved it all. I work hard for what I have now, still haven't gotten much further with pay cuts and overtime cuts, but I'm still working hard so should I be deserving something here? No, not really. That's just life. I still can't get all things I want, but that's ok because I have quite a bit and I am doing just fine.

That's what this whole argument really gets down to. Some people feel that health insurance is a need (Dems), and others feel that it is a want (Reps). Obviously the want is in high demand, but to me this is no different an argument than welfare and other social programs.
IMO, Dems thing that people need all of this stuff, Republicans feel that people are inherently responsible for their lives, what they do, and for the most part what happens to them. Like I've said before, you're dealt your poker hand and you have to make the best of it.
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Old August 21st, 2009, 11:47 AM   #152
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I'm sure there are a lot of people out there that wish that was that easy.
I never said it was easy. Doable maybe.
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Old August 21st, 2009, 12:22 PM   #153
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WOW

The public option will replace and do away with group plans.

That is the problem.

But what is scary is you are still blinded by the light. It is not about healthcare.
It is a powerplay. It is about controling peoples money so you control people and money.

Once again, I ask you to show me exactly where that is written. Or is it just another stretch (way beyond normal imagination) of a very losoe interpretation?
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Old August 21st, 2009, 12:51 PM   #154
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I never said it was easy. Doable maybe.
And it probably shouldn't be easy. But it definitely should be doable.
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Old August 21st, 2009, 04:25 PM   #155
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Once again, I ask you to show me exactly where that is written. Or is it just another stretch (way beyond normal imagination) of a very losoe interpretation?
I think it's in the same file as Obama's birth certificate. How about this for an answer, all the people that need to see it already did.... LMAO
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Old August 22nd, 2009, 12:43 PM   #156
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But what about the person working at McDonald's and 2 other jobs, none of which offer health insurance, while going to school to get that better job that will offer health insurance? Should they just hope and pray that they don't need health care?

I do agree with you last comment. The question is, what to do to make it more affordable, and how affordable does it need to be.
How many off those jobs offer health coverage that people aren't taking advantage of because they feel it is owed to them? My wife started working at Wal-mart 9 years ago. Now she is a salary manager. If she didn't work there my family wouldn't have insurance. The same insurance that is offered to all employees there, doesn't matter if your the store manager or pushing carts part time. Two people I was laid off with now work at her store. As one of them told my a lot of them are complaining about cost $150 a month for the middle of three choices. As he put it they are looking at what they don't have and not what they have. Most companies like Wal-mart offer insurance but you have to sign up for it. I'm sure McD's offers some kind of insurance if you were willing to put your share in, rather then feeling something is owed to them.
How affordable depends on the person some feel it should be free to them for what ever reason. Fact is anyone who is driving a vehicle made in the last 4 years and complaining about health insurance is only doing so because their priorities are in the wrong spot. A new car payment a month can buy you health coverage. Maybe those people should keep their car longer and buy some insurance.
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Old August 22nd, 2009, 01:26 PM   #157
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How many off those jobs offer health coverage that people aren't taking advantage of because they feel it is owed to them? My wife started working at Wal-mart 9 years ago. Now she is a salary manager. If she didn't work there my family wouldn't have insurance. The same insurance that is offered to all employees there, doesn't matter if your the store manager or pushing carts part time. Two people I was laid off with now work at her store. As one of them told my a lot of them are complaining about cost $150 a month for the middle of three choices. As he put it they are looking at what they don't have and not what they have. Most companies like Wal-mart offer insurance but you have to sign up for it. I'm sure McD's offers some kind of insurance if you were willing to put your share in, rather then feeling something is owed to them.
How affordable depends on the person some feel it should be free to them for what ever reason. Fact is anyone who is driving a vehicle made in the last 4 years and complaining about health insurance is only doing so because their priorities are in the wrong spot. A new car payment a month can buy you health coverage. Maybe those people should keep their car longer and buy some insurance.

What about the person driving a 10 year old car, working hard, paying rent, buying school clothes for the little ones, feeding the family, no luxuries at all and at the end of the month, simply can't find that extra $150 in the budget without taking food off the table?

OH, that's right, just go work harder, get a second, third, fourth job.
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Old August 24th, 2009, 09:57 AM   #158
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What about the person driving a 10 year old car, working hard, paying rent, buying school clothes for the little ones, feeding the family, no luxuries at all and at the end of the month, simply can't find that extra $150 in the budget without taking food off the table?

OH, that's right, just go work harder, get a second, third, fourth job.

How many kids are in this hypothetical family? Did the parents have a plan to start and raise a family with a budget in mind based on their incomes, including hers being stalled for maternity? Or is it just so widely accepted that you can shit out as many kids as you want regardless of your means because your neighbors will help cover the cost through forcibly taken taxes?
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Old August 24th, 2009, 04:00 PM   #159
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What about the person driving a 10 year old car, working hard, paying rent, buying school clothes for the little ones, feeding the family, no luxuries at all and at the end of the month, simply can't find that extra $150 in the budget without taking food off the table?

OH, that's right, just go work harder, get a second, third, fourth job.
Why do you use working harder like it's a punishment. I worked saturday till dark, and all day today in mud up to my hips, You know what I didn't want to, but I have a son leaving for college a daughter getting married in june and another daughter that will be driving soon, the oldest girls wedding will be in the 40,000 dollar range, the boy should have a new car to drive home from school when he wants and his tuition is 35,000 a year, the youngest girl will get a car from dad because Ive done it with the other two. NOw I could whine and cry about insurance and car costs and I can't afford, or I can get my fat ass out there and work for what I want.

If that means a second third or fourth job then thats what needs to be done to by what I want, including health insurance....

I'm doing what I need to do to get what I want, asking me to pay for somebody else to have the things I bust my ass to get is ignorant. I don't think I will buy a plane or large boat this year because I CANT AFFORD IT.
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Old August 24th, 2009, 04:18 PM   #160
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Why do you use working harder like it's a punishment. I worked saturday till dark, and all day today in mud up to my hips, You know what I didn't want to, but I have a son leaving for college a daughter getting married in june and another daughter that will be driving soon, the oldest girls wedding will be in the 40,000 dollar range, the boy should have a new car to drive home from school when he wants and his tuition is 35,000 a year, the youngest girl will get a car from dad because Ive done it with the other two. NOw I could whine and cry about insurance and car costs and I can't afford, or I can get my fat ass out there and work for what I want.

If that means a second third or fourth job then thats what needs to be done to by what I want, including health insurance....

I'm doing what I need to do to get what I want, asking me to pay for somebody else to have the things I bust my ass to get is ignorant. I don't think I will buy a plane or large boat this year because I CANT AFFORD IT.
Sounds like your plate is full and you have bills to pay.
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