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Old August 19th, 2009, 08:53 PM   #121
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But every insurance company dictates and rations care. Why shouldn't the government program do teh same?
The government does not belong in the health care business, nor the car business.
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Old August 19th, 2009, 10:04 PM   #122
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Change. I think somebody was preaching that for quite a while.

I heard on the radio today that the dealers aren't getting their $4,500.00 clunker money, and it's killing their cash flow.
The government says don't worry........
If they can't even pay someone in a timely manner, I can't wait to see what happens with an organ transplant.
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Old August 20th, 2009, 06:50 AM   #123
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I think the word "responsibility" would fit better than "blame".

And if you are completely without compassion or concern for your fellow man then I can see your point. It just seems to me that the richest most powerful nation in the world should be able to care for it's citizens better.
let's extrapolate this a bit, and care for the rest of the world's citizens as well then - especially the non-tax paying citizens of another country that are here illegally, installing carpet and mowing lawns.



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No one should die in this country because of a treatable disease.
therefore we should put a level 1 trauma center on every other corner instead of all of the rite-aids, walgreens, and CVS's...

define treatable. life is a terminal disease.
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Old August 20th, 2009, 07:43 AM   #124
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let's extrapolate this a bit, and care for the rest of the world's citizens as well then - especially the non-tax paying citizens of another country that are here illegally, installing carpet and mowing lawns.





therefore we should put a level 1 trauma center on every other corner instead of all of the rite-aids, walgreens, and CVS's...

define treatable. life is a terminal disease.

weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee more slippery slopes.
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Old August 20th, 2009, 08:52 AM   #125
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weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee more slippery slopes.
Picturing you saying weeeeeeeeeeeeeee makes me .
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Old August 20th, 2009, 09:33 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by Madmudder Amc 360 View Post
Stephen Fraser is an Anesthesiologist in Indianapolis .
...............................................
some one emailed this to me>...

Yes, that list has been going around. I believe it originated on a right wing website. I went to the site recently, but don't remember which one. Will have to see if I have it bookmarked somewhere.

In the meantime, I spent a considerable amount of time over a few days reading each page and section of the House bill mentioned in that e-mail.

The majority of those statements are complete B.S.

If you do not believe me, go read it for yourself. I also posted links to the House committee's website with links to the full bill.
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Old August 20th, 2009, 09:34 AM   #127
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The government does not belong in the health care business, nor the car business.

They have been there for a long time already.

Ever hear of government regulation?
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Old August 20th, 2009, 12:01 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by mikesova View Post
No one should die in this country because of a treatable disease.
They aren't. Everyone in this country can get care today for anything regardless of their ability to pay.

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Originally Posted by AGoodBuzz View Post
You notice that you, brew, pete, me, and some others (who all happen to be liberals) walk more in the path of the teachings of jesus than these christians do? And we're not even in their fukcing club!
I'm not in either camp but I'll point out what you are glossing over, as usual.

Christians give to charity using their own money & resources by their own choice at their own expense.

Liberals give to the "less fortunate" using the tax payers money & resources by force, at the point of a gun at someone else's expense.

Now which is really closer to the teachings of Jesus?
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Old August 20th, 2009, 12:09 PM   #129
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weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee more slippery slopes.
sova's statement is naive, hugely leftist and a pipe dream.

people shouldn't die in car accidents these days either, but they do.

people shouldn't stay out in the sun too long but they do.

people shouldn't smoke, drink too much, abuse prescription or recreational drugs, or live sedentary lives, but they do - and even when it catches up to them, the majority in this country still get more than adequate healthcare to treat their life style mistakes.
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Old August 20th, 2009, 12:16 PM   #130
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They have been there for a long time already.

Ever hear of government regulation?
Big difference between regulator and provider.
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Old August 20th, 2009, 12:22 PM   #131
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Big difference between regulator and provider.


The Federal government already provides medical coverage in the form of Medicare, Medicaid and government insurance for Federal employees, elected officials and military personnel.

As far as the Federal government being a provider in the auto industry, there is no proof of that.

Most of the bill in question is about regulation. Improving how things are presently done.
The government would establish an exchange and regulate what is offered by providers in that exchange. Those with the crystal ball looking into the bleak future see this as a government take over of health care.
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Old August 20th, 2009, 12:32 PM   #132
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As far as the Federal government being a provider in the auto industry, there is no proof of that.

.
So government does not own majority of GM?
Obama didn't force the removal of a CEO of a private company called GM?
Just trying to clarify.
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Old August 20th, 2009, 12:55 PM   #133
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The Federal government already provides medical coverage in the form of Medicare, Medicaid and government insurance for Federal employees, elected officials and military personnel.
And doing it very poorly and at a loss. If the federal govt' was a business they'd have gone out of business long ago.
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Old August 20th, 2009, 01:11 PM   #134
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The Federal government already provides medical coverage in the form of Medicare, Medicaid and government insurance for Federal employees, elected officials and military personnel.
Well, well. Another half truth.
Medicare and Medicaid, yes.
Federal employees get to choose from private plans like Blue Cross, Aetna, GEHA and such through FEHB. They are private plans. Part paid by the employer, OPM.

I think even Tri-care for the military was privatized, but I don't know for sure.
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Old August 20th, 2009, 01:13 PM   #135
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And doing it very poorly and at a loss. If the federal govt' was a business they'd have gone out of business long ago.
Our government does not tax for what they need, they spend what they can get.
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Old August 20th, 2009, 04:31 PM   #136
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Well, well. Another half truth.
Medicare and Medicaid, yes.
Federal employees get to choose from private plans like Blue Cross, Aetna, GEHA and such through FEHB. They are private plans. Part paid by the employer, OPM.

I think even Tri-care for the military was privatized, but I don't know for sure.

OK, I may be wrong about the Federal Employees, but the point is still valid, the government is already a health care provider.
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Old August 20th, 2009, 04:33 PM   #137
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So government does not own majority of GM?
Obama didn't force the removal of a CEO of a private company called GM?
Just trying to clarify.


They have an investment in GM but are not making operational decisions, just as they are not making operational decisions at Chrysler.

The CEO stepping down, well that is a point of argument depending on where you get the story from. But, any major investor in a company can push for the removal of an executive, or ask for that persons voluntary departure.
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Old August 20th, 2009, 06:13 PM   #138
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They aren't. Everyone in this country can get care today for anything regardless of their ability to pay.



I'm not in either camp but I'll point out what you are glossing over, as usual.

Christians give to charity using their own money & resources by their own choice at their own expense.

Liberals give to the "less fortunate" using the tax payers money & resources by force, at the point of a gun at someone else's expense.

Now which is really closer to the teachings of Jesus?
Bravo
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Old August 20th, 2009, 06:16 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by PeteC View Post
The Federal government already provides medical coverage in the form of Medicare, Medicaid and government insurance for Federal employees, elected officials and military personnel.

As far as the Federal government being a provider in the auto industry, there is no proof of that.

Most of the bill in question is about regulation. Improving how things are presently done.
The government would establish an exchange and regulate what is offered by providers in that exchange. Those with the crystal ball looking into the bleak future see this as a government take over of health care.
"Improving how things are presently done", how could they improve, usually when they get their hands into things it begins to cost more and being run less efficient. How is that improving?
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Old August 20th, 2009, 08:44 PM   #140
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It just seems to me that the richest most powerful nation in the world should be able to care for it's citizens better.
Wrong. We need to care for ourselves. It is not the governments job to provide health care. If you cant afford it that sucks.

I cant afford a new F350. I also cant afford cable anymore and would really like to get HBO. I dont see anyone handing me $$ for those needs. Why is it any different?

Yes health care is important, but you dont have a guaranteed right to be covered. It is a privilege that you need to work for on your own.


Instead of fvcking up something that is already "broken", why dont they do something to control costs?
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