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Old August 11th, 2009, 03:35 PM   #41
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Not to downplay your source, but it is 5 years old. Not that I am familiar with the in and outs of the Canadian system, but there are other articles that point out how things have improved and how most of the problems have to do with the rural nature of most of the country. People in the more urban areas like Toronto, Montreal Calgary, etc. have less issues. But people in the Northwest territories, northern rural Alberta have less than adequate access to medical help, a condition that existed before the program went into affect.

A good read, IMO, about the Canadian system: http://www.ourfuture.org/node/21313

2 things from this quick glance at your source. The present bill does not outlaw private insurance. It is designed to co-exist with private insurance.
Also, rural access to medical care is addressed in such a way to improve accesibility ro those living aweay from population centers.

Well I am glad that you believe all that you read. I myself know of a man that lives across the border outside of windsor. He went to the dr. for a check-up, after xrays they noticed a small quarter size spot on his left lung. They made another appointment to come back for a biop of the lung, 12 weeks later this small spot had grown to 25% of the lung, Operation day, 3 weeks later the doctor had to remove his entire left lung.
The pastor of my church, his wife had breast cancer the very next day she was in to have the cancer tumor removed.
Government health care, no thanks. I am sure if you got sick and needed immediate help you would get it now, but with the system of gov. health care you would wait and it is unfortunate that the ones that need it the most, some of those die waiting.
If you believe that this is what we need then you sir are blind and refuse to see the truth. We have the best health care inthe world and the reason why is because the government does not have thier hands in it
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Old August 11th, 2009, 05:41 PM   #42
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Well I am glad that you believe all that you read. I myself know of a man that lives across the border outside of windsor. He went to the dr. for a check-up, after xrays they noticed a small quarter size spot on his left lung. They made another appointment to come back for a biop of the lung, 12 weeks later this small spot had grown to 25% of the lung, Operation day, 3 weeks later the doctor had to remove his entire left lung.
The pastor of my church, his wife had breast cancer the very next day she was in to have the cancer tumor removed.
Government health care, no thanks. I am sure if you got sick and needed immediate help you would get it now, but with the system of gov. health care you would wait and it is unfortunate that the ones that need it the most, some of those die waiting.
If you believe that this is what we need then you sir are blind and refuse to see the truth. We have the best health care inthe world and the reason why is because the government does not have thier hands in it

But once again, the system being proposed is not much like the Canadian system, so comparisions to it are not particularly valid.

And I assume that you pastors wife either a) had good insurance, b) had lots of money to pay for her treatments, or c) is heavily in debt because of it.
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Old August 11th, 2009, 08:20 PM   #43
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So basically, Sarah Palin can claim something about a bill, the bill will have no such thing, but you will believe Sarah Palin's claim because liberals are sneaky? You're as moronic as Sarah Palin.

You know I have to agree with you. It's kinda like I'm voting for Obama because I don't like George Bush and the liberal ass hats said McCain will be just GWB so I will Bahhhh Bahhhh vote for Oblabla.....
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Old August 11th, 2009, 08:23 PM   #44
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That would be an interesting topic, are you willing to break or subvert Federal, State, or Local laws based on your "higher law"?

Have you ever done it? Would you ever do it? What would it take for you to do it?
I am
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Old August 11th, 2009, 08:25 PM   #45
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You know that palin and others remember what obama stated before he was elected and what he has stated after he was put into office, and it is not the same, he is not being truthful, he cannot be trusted and if you think for one minute that he has your best interest at heart, think again
People like you put him in office but what has he done but spend more money than any other and will continue to bring more debt to this country. You could pay 2 million dollars a day toward the debt for 2000 years and still not have paid it off. One thing about a republican, they can't spend like a democrat.
Liberals always blame what they themselvews are most guilty of.
You know how a thief will always think somebody is trying to steal from them or a liar will think they are always being lied to or a cheating spouse will always blame the other for cheating, and I can't forget name calling that is always a good one, how to change the subject you get the idea


Stop it. Obama can't be held to what he said, he's above that.
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Old August 11th, 2009, 08:26 PM   #46
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Both sides send their minions out to try and sway public opinion their way. Nothing new here.


Can you say Acorn.....
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Old August 11th, 2009, 08:32 PM   #47
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You are partially correct on this. It is not a case of fines, it is a case of a tax, prorated for that period of the calendar year that a person is not covered by some type of public or private insurance. In fact, starting on page 167 there ia an explanation of how it would work. Go check it out.

There are exceptions and exemptions.
Not particle correct I am correct I read it. If the you don't have insurance approved by health commissioner you tax a tax fine unless you make under a x amount of dollars. Its a fine for not doing what they told you you need to do. Plane and simple if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck what is it?
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Old August 11th, 2009, 08:32 PM   #48
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Heres some truth for you. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32364264...-more_politics
Since people here seem to like to post other peoples opinions rather than thier own.

More to come.

MSNBC..... You made me laugh....
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Old August 11th, 2009, 08:34 PM   #49
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But once again, the system being proposed is not much like the Canadian system, so comparisions to it are not particularly valid.

And I assume that you pastors wife either a) had good insurance, b) had lots of money to pay for her treatments, or c) is heavily in debt because of it.
Insurance, but if going into debt is a reason to live, whats the problem? It's your life to take care of yourself, it is not up to the government to take care of us. Unless you are a democrat, then yes take care of me, give food(stamps), inner city living is the life for me.
Yes health care is so expensive, I know I pay for my own. Something needs to be done but I do not believe that Obama has our best interest at heart, he says so but his lies keep me from believing him
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Old August 11th, 2009, 08:37 PM   #50
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Not particle correct I am correct I read it. If the you don't have insurance approved by health commissioner you tax a tax fine unless you make under a x amount of dollars. Its a fine for not doing what they told you you need to do. Plane and simple if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck what is it?
It is a joker obama duck
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Old August 11th, 2009, 08:38 PM   #51
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MSNBC..... You made me laugh....
Left wing media, of course they would be telling the same truth as a democrat
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Old August 11th, 2009, 08:41 PM   #52
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The proposal for government insurance is a bad idea. It hasn't been thought out, and at minimum should not be forced on the people as is in the bill.
Insurance is expensive, but its a luxury that is not owed to you by the government, or your employer....
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Old August 11th, 2009, 08:50 PM   #53
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‘‘(E) An explanation by the practitioner of the continuum of end-of-life services and supports available, including palliative care and hospice, and benefits for such services and supports that are available under this title.
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Palliative care (from Latin palliare, to cloak) is any form of medical care or treatment that concentrates on reducing the severity of disease symptoms, rather than striving to halt, delay, or reverse progression of the disease itself or provide a cure. The goal is to prevent and relieve suffering and to improve quality of life for people facing serious, complex illness.
In essance, rather than cure or treat, it is more cost effective to just relieve the pain and suffering with cheap drugs and accept the end of life.
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Old August 11th, 2009, 08:58 PM   #54
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That report actaully supports the link I posted. The more rural the more wait times. That happens no matter what type of health plan you have.

And the use of weeks needs to be understood as well. The report you are using take the average of 12 specialties across all of the provences.

I have no doubt you would see similar waits for certain specialties here for similar health plans.

There are provisions to help increase supply (medical professionals) in the plan. And, part of that is to help those in areas that are presently under staffed with practitioners. (both rural and urban)

Cost could go down through a variety of programs implemented through this program. Tort reform, cost control, competition.
But it also supports longer waits I've never known anyone to wait over 5 weeks even when my wife had no coverage(arrangements where made prior for payment on services) for anything. And still how will this effect R&D for new treatments everything I have seen shows we lead in almost all fields. If you have evidence otherwise please post.
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Old August 11th, 2009, 09:07 PM   #55
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In essance, rather than cure or treat, it is more cost effective to just relieve the pain and suffering with cheap drugs and accept the end of life.
So your in favor of forcing treatment on people, and keeping them on machines against their will, rather than allowing them to choose to just have their pain relieved while they peacefully wait for the inevitable?
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Old August 11th, 2009, 09:09 PM   #56
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So your in favor of forcing treatment on people, and keeping them on machines against their will
no.
But, I don't want the government making that decision, or pressuring people into that decision.

It is a bad bill. It creates more problems than it cures.

The "preference for under represented minority groups" should be enough to kill it.
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Old August 11th, 2009, 09:17 PM   #57
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I think its a joke that they have managed to come up with something that will work so great so fast.
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Old August 11th, 2009, 09:18 PM   #58
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no.


The "preference for under represented minority groups" should be enough to kill it.
It won't be its OK to be prejudiced against whitey just ask Rev. White. Remember those statements Obama never heard in 20 years of going to his sermons.
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Old August 11th, 2009, 09:22 PM   #59
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no.
But, I don't want the government making that decision, or pressuring people into that decision.

It is a bad bill. It creates more problems than it cures.

The "preference for under represented minority groups" should be enough to kill it.
On post #8 of this thread I posted the entire text of that section of the bill. Please show me the part where it says that the government will be making end of life decisions, or pressuring people into any decisions, or where anyone from the government ever has any contact whatsoever with patients regarding end of life decisions.
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Old August 11th, 2009, 09:50 PM   #60
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On post #8 of this thread I posted the entire text of that section of the bill. Please show me the part where it says that the government will be making end of life decisions, or pressuring people into any decisions, or where anyone from the government ever has any contact whatsoever with patients regarding end of life decisions.

scroll up, see post 53....or you can go to page one, post 8, its there as well




honestly, even though I do not support this bill in any way, I do agree that there are alot of lies on the net and in the media about it, coming from both sides. None of those lies are the main reason why I will not support this bill. My biggest reason, and dispute it if you think you can, is that this is a socialist move, and we all know that once the federal government gets thier foot in the door on something like that, they will push thier way further in. Maybe you should try reading, along with this new bill, an old book called "The Communist Manifesto" by a man named Karl Marx...it might look a bit familiar to what we are seeing now.
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