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Old August 10th, 2009, 07:33 PM   #1
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Default Government healtcare supporters

The media and some of the dems that support the government takeover of healthcare are calling opposers that speak out at the townhall meetings fakes and republican plants. They talk about Astroturf and bussing people in.

I read on a website that the opposite is true. The dems giving the meetings are planting people, and putting supporters in the front. The funniest thing I read was they are paying people to support it. I couldn't believe it. Go to craigslist in some of the big cities like Los Angeles and look up jobs - nonprofit and its there. They are actually paying people to support obamacare!!! I wonder if they are using our tax money to do it?
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Old August 10th, 2009, 08:37 PM   #2
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The media and some of the dems that support the government takeover of healthcare are calling opposers that speak out at the townhall meetings fakes and republican plants. They talk about Astroturf and bussing people in.

I read on a website that the opposite is true. The dems giving the meetings are planting people, and putting supporters in the front. The funniest thing I read was they are paying people to support it. I couldn't believe it. Go to craigslist in some of the big cities like Los Angeles and look up jobs - nonprofit and its there. They are actually paying people to support obamacare!!! I wonder if they are using our tax money to do it?

So, you believe one website that meets the needs of your agenda, yet you do not heed information supporting the opposing view? Interesting.


BTW, A few of the talking heads on the right have been encouraging this type of behaviour on their shows.
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Old August 10th, 2009, 08:52 PM   #3
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So when there is a response to lets say the war did the liberals not get people together and bus them in to protest the war. Groups do this all the time to make thier point to the government that they are not happy with what they are doing. It is ok when a liberal does it but it is not american when republican does it.
And yes the liberals would also encourage the same type of behavior. Liberals are guilty of blaming of what they are most guilty of themselves
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Old August 10th, 2009, 09:05 PM   #4
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So when there is a response to lets say the war did the liberals not get people together and bus them in to protest the war. Groups do this all the time to make thier point to the government that they are not happy with what they are doing. It is ok when a liberal does it but it is not american when republican does it.
And yes the liberals would also encourage the same type of behavior. Liberals are guilty of blaming of what they are most guilty of themselves

There is a difference between protesting and inciting violence. I do not condone the latter at all from any person or group.

Look at Palin, with her comments about "death panels". Pure B.S. (it is not in the bill) but she riled a segment of society up, you betcha. Of course, now she is asking for civility.
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Old August 10th, 2009, 09:22 PM   #5
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There is a difference between protesting and inciting violence. I do not condone the latter at all from any person or group.

Look at Palin, with her comments about "death panels". Pure B.S. (it is not in the bill) but she riled a segment of society up, you betcha. Of course, now she is asking for civility.
She called it as she see's it. the panel that would help seniors with their end of life choices ever 5 years (brain washing) are nothing more than "death panels" and if you do not see it as such then I hope you are not sitting in front of the said "death panels" in your time of old age, as we all would like to grow old and die with our loved ones and not having the government helping us to decide how we are going and when they see us as unfit to be productive in socity.
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Old August 10th, 2009, 09:52 PM   #6
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Hey Pete,

I didn't just take their word for it I actually looked on craigslist and saw ads for paid activists for healtcare reform. Look for yourself! Just think, you could be getting paid for supporting Obama's agenda! There is a job for supporting the "Cap and Trade", I even saw one for a calling campaign for "progressive causes" These are on Los Angeles craigslist. I saw them listed for some other cities too.

Why would they say all the stuff about astroturf and republican plants when activists supporting the bill are being hired to do it?


http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac...315447872.html

Now is our chance to make health care work.
America’s health care system is broken. Health care costs are spiraling out of control, throwing families, businesses and government into financial crisis. Families are worried their health coverage won’t be there when they need it. Our country can’t afford to wait for health reform that keeps costs down and protects consumers.
We can’t wait for affordable, dependable health care.

We’re fighting for health care that will protect families’ financial health, lay out a clear path for all Americans to afford health care, and improve patient safety and quality care.

You can work for change.
Join motivated staff around the country working to make change happen. You can make great friends and money along the way. Earn $400-$600 a week.

To apply for a job, visit our website—www.JobsThatMatter.org—or call Peter at 213-251-8630


That is copied right from their add. All I did was highlight a scary part of it. At least they are honest. They know it won't help costs or help people.
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Old August 10th, 2009, 10:03 PM   #7
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10-15 an hour well Obama said he was going to creat jobs with tax money, seems like a poor use to me.
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Old August 10th, 2009, 10:35 PM   #8
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She called it as she see's it. the panel that would help seniors with their end of life choices ever 5 years (brain washing) are nothing more than "death panels" and if you do not see it as such then I hope you are not sitting in front of the said "death panels" in your time of old age, as we all would like to grow old and die with our loved ones and not having the government helping us to decide how we are going and when they see us as unfit to be productive in socity.
And now you too can "call it like you see it:

Quote:
SEC. 1233. ADVANCE CARE PLANNING CONSULTATION.
(a) MEDICARE.—
(1) IN GENERAL.—Section 1861 of the Social
Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395x) is amended—
(A) in subsection (s)(2)—
(i) by striking ‘‘and’’ at the end of subparagraph (DD);
(ii) by adding ‘‘and’’ at the end of subparagraph (EE); and (iii) by adding at the end the following new subparagraph:
‘‘(FF) advance care planning consultation (as defined in subsection (hhh)(1));’’; and
(B) by adding at the end the following new subsection:
‘‘Advance Care Planning Consultation ‘‘(hhh)(1) Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the term ‘advance care planning consultation’ means a consultation between the individual and a practitioner described in paragraph (2) regarding advance care planning, if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual involved has not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such consultation shall include the following:
‘‘(A) An explanation by the practitioner of advance care planning, including key questions and considerations, important steps, and suggested people to talk to.
17 ‘‘(B) An explanation by the practitioner of advance directives, including living wills and durable powers of attorney, and their uses.
‘‘(C) An explanation by the practitioner of the role and responsibilities of a health care proxy.
‘‘(D) The provision by the practitioner of a list of national and State-specific resources to assist consumers and their families with advance care planning, including the national toll-free hotline, the advance care planning clearinghouses, and State legal service organizations (including those funded through the Older Americans Act of 1965).
‘‘(E) An explanation by the practitioner of the continuum of end-of-life services and supports available, including palliative care and hospice, and benefits for such services and supports that are available under this title.
‘‘(F)(i) Subject to clause (ii), an explanation of orders regarding life sustaining treatment or similar orders, which shall include—
‘‘(I) the reasons why the development of such an order is beneficial to the individual and the individual’s family and the reasons why such an order should be updated periodically as the health of the individual changes;
‘‘(II) the information needed for an individual or legal surrogate to make informed decisions regarding the completion of such an order; and ‘‘(III) the identification of resources that an individual may use to determine the requirements of the State in which such individual resides so that the treatment wishes of that individual will be carried out if the individual is unable to communicate those wishes, including requirements regarding the designation of a surrogate decisionmaker (also known as a health care proxy).
‘‘(ii) The Secretary shall limit the requirement for explanations under clause (i) to consultations furnished in a State—
‘‘(I) in which all legal barriers have been addressed for enabling orders for life sustaining treatment to constitute a set of medical orders respected across all care settings; and
‘‘(II) that has in effect a program for orders for life sustaining treatment described in clause (iii).
‘‘(iii) A program for orders for life sustaining treatment for a States described in this clause is a program that—
‘‘(I) ensures such orders are standardized and uniquely identifiable throughout the State;
‘‘(II) distributes or makes accessible such orders to physicians and other health professionals that (acting within the scope of the professional’s authority under State law) may sign orders for life sustaining treatment;
‘‘(III) provides training for health care professionals across the continuum of care about the goals and use of orders for life sustaining treatment; and
‘‘(IV) is guided by a coalition of stakeholders includes representatives from emergency medical services, emergency department physicians or nurses, state long-term care association, state medical association, state surveyors,
agency responsible for senior services, state department of health, state hospital association, home health association, state bar association, and state hospice association.
‘‘(2) A practitioner described in this paragraph is—
‘‘(A) a physician (as defined in subsection(r)(1)); and
‘‘(B) a nurse practitioner or physician’s assistant who has the authority under State law to sign orders for life sustaining treatments.
‘‘(3)(A) An initial preventive physical examination under subsection (WW), including any related discussion during such examination, shall not be considered an advance care planning consultation for purposes of applying the 5-year limitation under paragraph (1).
‘‘(B) An advance care planning consultation with respect to an individual may be conducted more frequently than provided under paragraph (1) if there is a significant change in the health condition of the individual, including diagnosis of a chronic, progressive, life-limiting disease, a life-threatening or terminal diagnosis or life-threatening injury, or upon admission to a skilled nursing facility, a long-term care facility (as defined by the Secretary), or a hospice program.
‘‘(4) A consultation under this subsection may in11
clude the formulation of an order regarding life sustaining treatment or a similar order.
‘‘(5)(A) For purposes of this section, the term ‘order regarding life sustaining treatment’ means, with respect to an individual, an actionable medical order relating to the treatment of that individual that—
‘‘(i) is signed and dated by a physician (as defined in subsection (r)(1)) or another health care professional (as specified by the Secretary and who is acting within the scope of the professional’s authority under State law in signing such an order, including a nurse practitioner or physician assistant) and is in a form that permits it to stay with the individual and be followed by health care professionals and providers across the continuum of care;
‘‘(ii) effectively communicates the individual’s preferences regarding life sustaining treatment, including an indication of the treatment and care desired by the individual;
‘‘(iii) is uniquely identifiable and standardized within a given locality, region, or State (as identified by the Secretary); and
‘‘(iv) may incorporate any advance directive (as defined in section 1866(f)(3)) if executed by the individual.
‘‘(B) The level of treatment indicated under subparagraph (A)(ii) may range from an indication for full treatment to an indication to limit some or all or specified interventions. Such indicated levels of treatment may include indications respecting, among other items—
‘‘(i) the intensity of medical intervention if the patient is pulse less, apneic, or has serious cardiac or pulmonary problems;
‘‘(ii) the individual’s desire regarding transfer to a hospital or remaining at the current care setting;
‘‘(iii) the use of antibiotics; and
‘‘(iv) the use of artificially administered nutrition and hydration.’’.

(2) PAYMENT.—Section 1848(j)(3) of such Act (42 U.S.C. 1395w-4(j)(3)) is amended by inserting ‘‘(2)(FF),’’ after ‘‘(2)(EE),’’.
(3) FREQUENCY LIMITATION.—Section 1862(a) of such Act (42 U.S.C. 1395y(a)) is amended— (A) in paragraph (1)— (i) in subparagraph (N), by striking ‘‘and’’ at the end; (ii) in subparagraph (O) by striking the semicolon at the end and inserting ‘‘, and’’; and
(iii) by adding at the end the following new subparagraph:
‘‘(P) in the case of advance care planning consultations (as defined in section 1861(hhh)(1)), which are performed more frequently than is covered under such section;’’; and (B) in paragraph (7), by striking ‘‘or (K)’’ and inserting ‘‘(K), or (P)’’.
(4) EFFECTIVE DATE.—The amendments made by this subsection shall apply to consultations furnished on or after January 1, 2011.
(b) EXPANSION OF PHYSICIAN QUALITY REPORTING INITIATIVE FOR END OF LIFE CARE.—
(1) PHYSICIAN’S QUALITY REPORTING INITIATIVE.—Section 1848(k)(2) of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395w–4(k)(2)) is amended by adding at the end the following new paragraphs:
‘‘(3) PHYSICIAN’S QUALITY REPORTING INITIATIVE.—
‘‘(A) IN GENERAL.—For purposes of reporting data on quality measures for covered professional services furnished during 2011 and any subsequent year, to the extent that measures are available, the Secretary shall include quality measures on end of life care and advanced care planning that have been adopted or endorsed by a consensus-based organization, if appropriate. Such measures shall measure both the creation of and adherence to orders for life sustaining treatment.
‘‘(B) PROPOSED SET OF MEASURES.— The Secretary shall publish in the Federal Register proposed quality measures on end of life care and advanced care planning that the Secretary determines are described in subparagraph (A) and would be appropriate for eligible professionals to use to submit data to the Secretary. The Secretary shall provide for a period of public comment on such set of measures before finalizing such proposed measures.’’.
(c) INCLUSION OF INFORMATION IN MEDICARE & YOU HANDBOOK.—
(1) MEDICARE & YOU HANDBOOK.—
(A) IN GENERAL.—Not later than 1 year after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Secretary of Health and Human Services shall update the online version of the Medicare & You Handbook to include the following:
(i) An explanation of advance care planning and advance directives, including—
(I) living wills;
(II) durable power of attorney;
(III) orders of life-sustaining treatment; and
(IV) health care proxies.
(ii) A description of Federal and State resources available to assist individuals and their families with advance care planning and advance directives, including—
(I) available State legal service organizations to assist individuals with advance care planning, including those organizations that receive funding pursuant to the Older Americans
Act of 1965 (42 U.S.C. 93001 et seq.);
(II) website links or addresses for State-specific advance directive forms; and
(III) any additional information, as determined by the Secretary.
(B) UPDATE OF PAPER AND SUBSEQUENT VERSIONS.—The Secretary shall include the information described in subparagraph (A) in all paper and electronic versions of the Medicare & You Handbook that are published on or after the date that is 1 year after the date of the enactment of this Act.
I see nothing about "death panels". What I see is requirements that doctors make patients aware of their options and making sure the patients know how to make their wishes known.
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Old August 10th, 2009, 10:38 PM   #9
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The media and some of the dems that support the government takeover of healthcare are calling opposers that speak out at the townhall meetings fakes and republican plants. They talk about Astroturf and bussing people in.

I read on a website that the opposite is true. The dems giving the meetings are planting people, and putting supporters in the front. The funniest thing I read was they are paying people to support it. I couldn't believe it. Go to craigslist in some of the big cities like Los Angeles and look up jobs - nonprofit and its there. They are actually paying people to support obamacare!!! I wonder if they are using our tax money to do it?
Both sides send their minions out to try and sway public opinion their way. Nothing new here.
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Old August 10th, 2009, 10:52 PM   #10
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And now you too can "call it like you see it:



I see nothing about "death panels". What I see is requirements that doctors make patients aware of their options and making sure the patients know how to make their wishes known.
yes true you would not read that and the liberals would not be so bold to put that in the bill they would phrase it differently, something more appealing, something that makes you feel good and warm and fuzzy all over and that feeling would be the panel brain washing you to think of a way out because the cost that the elderly is creating on the people that are waiting for more hand outs and can't get em because it cost to much keeping the old folks alive, so lets give em a pill and call it a day, on with the next.....
The government can't run medicare, the schools, themselves how would anybody in their right mind think they could run health care. we have proof, look at other countries that are doing it right now, huge wait times and people dieing before thier time because of waiting.
Thier has to be a better way, but having government run health care....UMMM
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Old August 10th, 2009, 11:06 PM   #11
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yes true you would not read that and the liberals would not be so bold to put that in the bill they would phrase it differently, something more appealing, something that makes you feel good and warm and fuzzy all over and that feeling would be the panel brain washing you to think of a way out because the cost that the elderly is creating on the people that are waiting for more hand outs and can't get em because it cost to much keeping the old folks alive, so lets give em a pill and call it a day, on with the next.....
The government can't run medicare, the schools, themselves how would anybody in their right mind think they could run health care. we have proof, look at other countries that are doing it right now, huge wait times and people dieing before thier time because of waiting.
Thier has to be a better way, but having government run health care....UMMM
The only "brain washing" going on here is you and your fellow conservitives claiming something is in this bill that just isn't there. Most of you are so brain washed that there really is no point in continuing this discussion.
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Old August 11th, 2009, 07:09 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by aber61 View Post
yes true you would not read that and the liberals would not be so bold to put that in the bill they would phrase it differently, something more appealing, something that makes you feel good and warm and fuzzy all over and that feeling would be the panel brain washing you to think of a way out because the cost that the elderly is creating on the people that are waiting for more hand outs and can't get em because it cost to much keeping the old folks alive, so lets give em a pill and call it a day, on with the next.....
The government can't run medicare, the schools, themselves how would anybody in their right mind think they could run health care. we have proof, look at other countries that are doing it right now, huge wait times and people dieing before thier time because of waiting.
Thier has to be a better way, but having government run health care....UMMM
So basically, Sarah Palin can claim something about a bill, the bill will have no such thing, but you will believe Sarah Palin's claim because liberals are sneaky? You're as moronic as Sarah Palin.

Last edited by mikesova; August 11th, 2009 at 07:51 AM.
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Old August 11th, 2009, 07:32 AM   #13
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I know this is the political forum and is placed here for debate and bantor, but I think the following needs to be said: To me it is obvious right now that the majority of the country is against this bill. Some believe that this majority is an uneducated lot, who could not get out of bed in the morning without being told by (insert conservative leader or christian here) to do so. Nevertheless,............those who are downplalying/ridiculing this majority and are proudly wearing the GLFWDA badge under their screen name, might want to think about the ramifications to their cause. Some people may not want to donate money to a great organization like GLFWDA, if representatives are constantly bashing them for their Ideals. (and we all Know our sport needs this type of funding) Just my .02 cents.

I'm just asking you to think about your actions carefully as you make your statements or beliefs. By all means freely comment, but keep the underpinings to the less then desireables in politics.

You may think that my statement is small minded, and it very well could be, but that does not change what people will think.

Side note: (For those who dont know, Christians are Christians first, they live their whole life for their God and they have the right to do so. You will not change that belief from doing a "so called" debate on a political forum on a 4x4 web site. )
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Old August 11th, 2009, 07:53 AM   #14
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Side note: (For those who dont know, Christians are Christians first, they live their whole life for their God and they have the right to do so. You will not change that belief from doing a "so called" debate on a political forum on a 4x4 web site. )
That would be an interesting topic, are you willing to break or subvert Federal, State, or Local laws based on your "higher law"?

Have you ever done it? Would you ever do it? What would it take for you to do it?
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Old August 11th, 2009, 08:03 AM   #15
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So basically, Sarah Palin can claim something about a bill, the bill will have no such thing, but you will believe Sarah Palin's claim because liberals are sneaky? You're as moronic as Sarah Palin.
You know that palin and others remember what obama stated before he was elected and what he has stated after he was put into office, and it is not the same, he is not being truthful, he cannot be trusted and if you think for one minute that he has your best interest at heart, think again
People like you put him in office but what has he done but spend more money than any other and will continue to bring more debt to this country. You could pay 2 million dollars a day toward the debt for 2000 years and still not have paid it off. One thing about a republican, they can't spend like a democrat.
Liberals always blame what they themselvews are most guilty of.
You know how a thief will always think somebody is trying to steal from them or a liar will think they are always being lied to or a cheating spouse will always blame the other for cheating, and I can't forget name calling that is always a good one, how to change the subject you get the idea
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Old August 11th, 2009, 08:07 AM   #16
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That would be an interesting topic, are you willing to break or subvert Federal, State, or Local laws based on your "higher law"?

Have you ever done it? Would you ever do it? What would it take for you to do it?
Mike, if you would like to discuss this with me, do it in a PM.
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Old August 11th, 2009, 08:19 AM   #17
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She called it as she see's it. the panel that would help seniors with their end of life choices ever 5 years (brain washing) are nothing more than "death panels" and if you do not see it as such then I hope you are not sitting in front of the said "death panels" in your time of old age, as we all would like to grow old and die with our loved ones and not having the government helping us to decide how we are going and when they see us as unfit to be productive in socity.


So, you still obviously refuse to educate yourself by reading the bill and other information available on line directly from Congress. Instead you simply hear what you want to hear and what fits your agenda. Sad.
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Old August 11th, 2009, 08:24 AM   #18
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Hey Pete,

I didn't just take their word for it I actually looked on craigslist and saw ads for paid activists for healtcare reform. Look for yourself! Just think, you could be getting paid for supporting Obama's agenda! There is a job for supporting the "Cap and Trade", I even saw one for a calling campaign for "progressive causes" These are on Los Angeles craigslist. I saw them listed for some other cities too.

Why would they say all the stuff about astroturf and republican plants when activists supporting the bill are being hired to do it?


http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac...315447872.html

Now is our chance to make health care work.
America’s health care system is broken. Health care costs are spiraling out of control, throwing families, businesses and government into financial crisis. Families are worried their health coverage won’t be there when they need it. Our country can’t afford to wait for health reform that keeps costs down and protects consumers.
We can’t wait for affordable, dependable health care.

We’re fighting for health care that will protect families’ financial health, lay out a clear path for all Americans to afford health care, and improve patient safety and quality care.

You can work for change.
Join motivated staff around the country working to make change happen. You can make great friends and money along the way. Earn $400-$600 a week.

To apply for a job, visit our website—www.JobsThatMatter.org—or call Peter at 213-251-8630


That is copied right from their add. All I did was highlight a scary part of it. At least they are honest. They know it won't help costs or help people.

Why is the part highlighted in read scarey? You have a problem keeping costs down and protecting consumers?

This appears to be an ad where people can make money and help a cause they believe in, in whatever capacity (it does not specify). It is not a call to disrupt the process.

But since it is from the reform supporters, it is automatically evil. Is that your stance?
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Old August 11th, 2009, 08:30 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by FORD FLARESIDE View Post
I know this is the political forum and is placed here for debate and bantor, but I think the following needs to be said: To me it is obvious right now that the majority of the country is against this bill. Some believe that this majority is an uneducated lot, who could not get out of bed in the morning without being told by (insert conservative leader or christian here) to do so. Nevertheless,............those who are downplalying/ridiculing this majority and are proudly wearing the GLFWDA badge under their screen name, might want to think about the ramifications to their cause. Some people may not want to donate money to a great organization like GLFWDA, if representatives are constantly bashing them for their Ideals. (and we all Know our sport needs this type of funding) Just my .02 cents.

I'm just asking you to think about your actions carefully as you make your statements or beliefs. By all means freely comment, but keep the underpinings to the less then desireables in politics.

You may think that my statement is small minded, and it very well could be, but that does not change what people will think.

Side note: (For those who dont know, Christians are Christians first, they live their whole life for their God and they have the right to do so. You will not change that belief from doing a "so called" debate on a political forum on a 4x4 web site. )

What? WTF are you talking about?

You are trying to use my support of wheeling as a way to get me to shut up about my stance on a political issue? You think the conservative view of health care reform is a GLFWDA stance? Where do you come off?

BTW, If GLFWDA board members ever told me what to think about a political, religious moral, or any other issues I would be ripping the stickers off my jeep, formally and publicly denouncing the organization and have the logo removed from under my name immediatly.
GLFWDA does not force thier members to shut thier mouths in the political or religious arena. It is not part of thier mandate and not part of the cause.
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Old August 11th, 2009, 08:36 AM   #20
boghog360
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Aren't we all, (those of us that are still working), paying for this already? If someone walks into a hospital, they can't be refused if I understand the printed message at the front desk of the emergency room.
The health care system isn't broken, it's become corrupt. Insurance companies have found ways to dictate to us and the doctors that treat us. If one stands back and looks at it, the insurance companies have become a middle man so to speak. I am talking about both the health insurance and the doctors liability insurance companies. The system does need repair, no doubt about it. I would rather see adjustments made to the system we have to reduce the waste and corruption. I also would rather a REAL doctor decide that a procedure should be done and covered, rather than an insurance company.
I would imagine the insurance companies have doctors working for them that decide these things. I also have noticed that when companies hire professional people to work for them, they favor the company. Think about it. It happens in all companies. If they don't the companies would fail.
It does all come down to money.
It really is a shame that a country such as this, has this problem. It should of had a great health care system for all Americans back 50 years ago.
OK I'm done ranting.
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