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Old August 12th, 2009, 09:59 AM   #61
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It will be getting something just like primel had on his zuk, is that not a "roll cage"?

Its like talking to a fawking wall.....
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Old August 12th, 2009, 10:03 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by 95geo View Post
It will be getting something just like primel had on his zuk, is that not a "roll cage"?

Its like talking to a fawking wall.....
are you speaking into a mirror when you say things like that
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Old August 12th, 2009, 10:07 AM   #63
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If I thought for a second that he would get into a spot where he needed a cage I would put one in without his consent. It is going to get a scrub rail that will help if it gets leaned into something and in the event of a rollover again it will provide plenty of additional support so the cab area doesnt get compromised. An exo cage is 100% out of the question, they are fugly and add so much weight that they are just about counterproductive and make you much more top heavy. With an exo you have no way to triangulate anything so it's only a matter of time before it gets tweeked and you have to start over. An internal cage does nothing that the scrub rails wouldnt already cover. The downside with an internal cage is that even if you roll, the body is still fubar'd and it just stopped things from caving in.... same as the scrub rails will do.:
Cages aren't supposed to save the vehicle, they are there to save the occupant. They are also not intended to ever be used. They are there in case of an emergency.
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Old August 12th, 2009, 10:23 AM   #64
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i just want pics of the build.. so everyone else just stfu..
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Old August 12th, 2009, 10:25 AM   #65
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i just want pics of the build.. so everyone else just stfu..
You know you secretly want to build a sexy cage for it.
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Old August 12th, 2009, 10:46 AM   #66
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While not trying to monkey things up with adding in my opinion, i can kinda understand where Bryce and his dad are coming from. With the limited wheeling experience I have, I have not had a cage yet built for my TJ. Ive just been running a stock bar and hardtop. At times Ive backed off challenges to avoid damage to my hardtop but then again at times I have not but luckily nothing bad has happened. Now that I'm doing a complete rebuild of my TJ I will be having a full cage built cause I never know what will happen.

How you and your dad want to build his Geo is up to you. However the question arises if he thinks 60's and 40's are required for a back country trail rig then why not built a cage just to bare on the side of caution just that much more, I mean can you ever be too safe?

In my own experience Ive rolled a stock GMC full size truck all the way over before driving down a dirt road and walked away but the passenger side of the cab was severely crushed in. Also while wheeling in Canada a few years back I was crossing a wooden bridge when it broke and I fell through it. Had it not been for my big ARB bumper I could have possibly rolled off the bridge, fallen 5-6' down and land on the drivers roof. I was only going about 5-10MPH when this happened.
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Old August 12th, 2009, 10:56 AM   #67
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40's went on because they measure 39" and the tire selection for a 17" wheel in a true 37" size sucks. dana 60's are going in because dana 44's arent up to the task of 37's and reliability is more a concern than the ultimate strength of them.
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Old August 12th, 2009, 11:02 AM   #68
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However the question arises if he thinks 60's and 40's are required for a back country trail rig
40's give ground clearance and traction for overcoming obstacles like large logs, rocks and mud found while trail riding and exploring. And yes, the occasional park type setting. 40's will also break D44 axle shafts which is why he has decided to upgrade.

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a back country trail rig then why not built a cage just to bare on the side of caution just that much more, I mean can you ever be too safe?
The answer is in the description of scrubber bars and a windshield hoop.

What many seem to miss is that to many, the above description would be considered a cage. What takes away the description of a cage is the lack of triangulation and full sheet metal protection that would truely make it a "cage".

As others have said, the vehicle is probably more top heavy than the original design and that adds a risk. And, in the case of a rollover, the heavier wheels and tires will put more load on the rooftop. In their opinion, the planned extra tube work will suffice. I'm not qualified to make that determination prior to seeing the final product. Who here is?

Finally, I have to laugh my ass off at Bryan's statement that he has wheeled more than Jim. Jim has been wheeling for over 35 years, weeks at a time, every year for that time. He's wheeled in damn near every state in the lower 48. Has he competed like Bryan? No. But if you want to sit down and log hours on the trails, all over the country, I doubt that there are more than a couple people in the state that can compare to his experience. Bryan, I would venture to guess he has put in more seat time before you were out of diapers than you have in your life.

Why not let this build evolve and comment on what you see rather than what you imagine?
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Old August 12th, 2009, 11:09 AM   #69
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less blah blah blah.. more progress pics please..
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Old August 12th, 2009, 11:18 AM   #70
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this is a funny thread....so 10 pages before the build even starts WTF?
it is there build and i am sure they will build what is needed. some of you need to chilll!!!
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Old August 12th, 2009, 11:37 AM   #71
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Bryan please start a new thread with your vehicle and some action shots so that we can give you some "constructive" criticism as well.
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Old August 12th, 2009, 12:07 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
forFinally, I have to laugh my ass off at Bryan's statement that he has wheeled more than Jim. Jim has been wheeling for over 35 years, weeks at a time, every year for that time. He's wheeled in damn near every state in the lower 48. Has he competed like Bryan? No. But if you want to sit down and log hours on the trails, all over the country, I doubt that there are more than a couple people in the state that can compare to his experience. Bryan, I would venture to guess he has put in more seat time before you were out of diapers than you have in your life.

Why not let this build evolve and comment on what you see rather than what you imagine?
now jim if you bryce and his dad count wheelin, driven down some fire road or going to the sand dunes to have a picnic or going to canada to watch other people wheel THAT IS NOT WHEELIN LOLOLOL I garantee i have wheeled more then all three of you so you want to laugh you might want to look at you guys . i'm saying is look what happen to that pice of shit geo when it hit a ditch fawk he almost died, you guys might want to find a diffrent sport maybe water polo or somthing wheelin is not for you guys if you don't get the point

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Old August 12th, 2009, 12:07 PM   #73
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yea stop the BS people I want to see the 60's!
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Old August 12th, 2009, 12:10 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 95geo View Post
40's went on because they measure 39" and the tire selection for a 17" wheel in a true 37" size sucks. dana 60's are going in because dana 44's arent up to the task of 37's and reliability is more a concern than the ultimate strength of them.
stock sami axles could survive 40's if the "wheeling" is as you mentioned.
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Old August 12th, 2009, 12:50 PM   #75
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Hey Everyone.....,
Don't take my lack of replies as ignoring everyone. I am reading and listening and good points are being made by all.
Balancing all aspects of a build is always a tough call. A newby just starting out with tires and a lift is riduculed for not putting a winch on. Or the guy/gal who puts bumpers on is chastized for not doing tube fenders and scrub rails.
The one thing about this hobby is that there is an opportunity for everyone to do their own thing. And no 2 people will ever agree on the perfect build unless of course the build has one of everyting......and then people will argue about the color!
Non-Competetive offroad escapades rarely if ever require SCORE type cages. Granted a flop @ Silver Lake could net you a 'hot-dog' roll down the hill and a stupid move like trying to stand the truck up on it's back wheels is sure to have dire consequences. My goal was, and still is, to reinforce the vehicle where it was weakest so that it could handle a moderate roll and keep the occupants alive. That being said, there isn't a hardtop SUV out there today that would have looked any different than mine did after kissing the ditch with my roof. The aero windshields, narrow 'A' pillars required for visibility greatly reduce the structural strength in the front cab of all SUVs today. So does that mean we should insist every Cherokee, Blazer, Explorer, Dakota, etc. driver out there to install a cage before they go offroad? Probably not. Depends on the usage of the vehicle. Granted mine is a bit more modified that most but I still only tip the scales @ 4000 lbs. OEM Curb was a bit over 3000 with Gross Wt being 4000. But a majority of the mass added is down low so CG wasn't vastly affected. Most Jeeps that I've rolled over the scales are well over 4000+ lbs.
So to repeat the plan:
I WILL be doing scrub bars and the 'A' pillar bar.
But I will be taking another look at getting some sort of additional support inside the vehicle. The downside to this is that bars inside the vehicle are an additional hazard to occupants that often goes unaddressed. Bang your head on one of those bars and you'll be counting more than stars or sheep. (I see more than a few of you cringing!) Keeping functionality, versatility and an overall clean installation will be the toughest of all. Anyone can gut a vehicle and bolt a cage in. That's not my goal. Stay tuned for the slightly revised plan.
Thanks everyone for all your comments and criticism, though animation is not really required, I really do understand.
jim-kb8ymf

P.S. Sorry no build pics yet.......
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Old August 12th, 2009, 01:02 PM   #76
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To be honest with you Bryce, you and your Dad should know that even a trail mild and relaxing trail ride can turn shitty with a little rainand sidehill action. Even pulling cable or turning around can put you in hairy situations. With your skills and equipment, I don't see why you wouldn't atleast put a B pillar hoop with supports that run toward the rear. That wouldn't intrude with the driver or spotter areas and would still save your neck ina rollover.

It is obviously your call, but it only takes one situation that the driver didn't see coming to make you completely regret your decision to save 20 feet of tube and a couple hours of labor.
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Old August 12th, 2009, 01:03 PM   #77
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I have always liked your rig, and im sure the new shit will just make it that much better.

Best of luck...
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Old August 12th, 2009, 01:05 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan View Post
now jim if you bryce and his dad count wheelin, driven down some fire road or going to the sand dunes to have a picnic or going to canada to watch other people wheel THAT IS NOT WHEELIN LOLOLOL I garantee i have wheeled more then all three of you so you want to laugh you might want to look at you guys . i'm saying is look what happen to that pice of shit geo when it hit a ditch fawk he almost died, you guys might want to find a diffrent sport maybe water polo or somthing wheelin is not for you guys if you don't get the point
That's funny. You don't know shit about me or my past. How old are you Bryan, 30, 35 max? You sure are arrogant for someone who doesn't know anything about someone else and what their history has been before you were born.

Just "what" do you consider wheeling? If you consider the only form of wheeling to require balls out hammer down competition, then I guess you are the king as that's what everyone does. That would make everyone else on this board bow down to you.

Oh, by the way, he didn't "almost die", he walked away without hardly a scratch.

I still say to let it evolve and pass judgement then.
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Old August 12th, 2009, 01:10 PM   #79
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60's
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Old August 12th, 2009, 01:11 PM   #80
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I garantee i have wheeled more then all three of you
(Is that a money back gurantee! ) Interesting statement Bryan. I would be interested to see the facts used to back that up. Does wheeling only count if it's an 8 or above rated trail? Of only if someone rolls on your ride? Or is it only in competition? I'm not saying who's wheeled more but I really find your statement interesting seeing's how you haven't the faintest idea where I've been wheeling for the last 35 years. At this point it's probably easier to tell you where I HAVEN'T been.
P.S. My first Jeep was 1954 CJ3B bought in 1974.
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