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Old June 24th, 2006, 12:08 AM   #21
Chiefwoohaw
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Originally Posted by jamiesann

*ps news flash they already found WMDS twice now, and when the reall big ones are used or found eventually i doubt we will hear your admission your wrong you will just ignore it*
They found WMDs that would actually reach the US? I don't think so and I doubt they ever will, but your a bush lover and since you love the BUSH I understand how he can do no wrong in your eyes.
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Old June 24th, 2006, 12:59 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by cmujeeper
They found WMDs that would actually reach the US? I don't think so and I doubt they ever will, .....blah.. blah.. blah...
So your saying WMD's are ok to kill people anywhere else in the world, just so long as they don't land on your butt?

Sorry, but the "super power" nations have a duty to keep all these warring factions in check. If you recall history, a small island nation began taking over neighboring countries and exploiting their resources until they eventually had enough weapons to take on the world. Result: Pearl Harbour/WWII

Would you prefer to let the current oil rich, Al-Qaida friendly nations train terrorists and enrich uranium and just ignore it until they reach your neck of the woods?

Take off the rose colored glasses, the world really isn't that nice of a place.
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Old June 24th, 2006, 01:20 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Renegade II
Sorry, but the "super power" nations have a duty to keep all these warring factions in check.
translation: a "superpower"'s duty is to make sure that no one else becomes a "superpower"

not sure I'm buying it.
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Old June 24th, 2006, 02:05 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brewmenn
translation: a "superpower"'s duty is to make sure that no one else becomes a "superpower"

not sure I'm buying it.
Take it in it's intended context:
-As a super power we have nukes, but don't use them.
-If they (pick any 3rd world nation) become a super power they want nukes to use them against every and anything living that does not follow their religion or dictator.

Spend some time outside the USA and see just how hated we really are.
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Old June 24th, 2006, 05:31 AM   #25
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Cheers to you Rengade II!!
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Old June 24th, 2006, 05:40 AM   #26
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There are way too many words in that post, could you sum it up for those of us who have attention spans as short as your penis?

Quote:
Originally Posted by robrocketanski
The Project for the New American Century.

Click here for other articles on this topic

The People versus the Powerful is the oldest story in human history. At no
point in history have the Powerful wielded so much control. At no point in
history has the active and informed involvement of the People, all of them,
been more absolutely required.

William Rivers Pitt: 02/25/03

The Project for the New American Century, or PNAC, is a Washington-based
think tank created in 1997. Above all else, PNAC desires and demands one
thing: The establishment of a global American empire to bend the will of
all nations. They chafe at the idea that the United States, the last
remaining superpower, does not do more by way of economic and military
force to bring the rest of the world under the umbrella of a new
socio-economic Pax Americana.

The fundamental essence of PNAC's ideology can be found in a White Paper
produced in September of 2000 entitled "Rebuilding America's Defenses:
Strategy, Forces and Resources for a New Century." In it, PNAC outlines
what is required of America to create the global empire they envision.
According to PNAC, America must:
* Reposition permanently based forces to Southern Europe, Southeast Asia
and the Middle East;
* Modernize U.S. forces, including enhancing our fighter aircraft,
submarine and surface fleet capabilities;
* Develop and deploy a global missile defense system, and develop a
strategic dominance of space;
* Control the "International Commons" of cyberspace;
* Increase defense spending to a minimum of 3.8 percent of gross domestic
product, up from the 3 percent currently spent.


Most ominously, this PNAC document described four "Core Missions" for the
American military. The two central requirements are for American forces to
"fight and decisively win multiple, simultaneous major theater wars," and
to "perform the 'constabulary' duties associated with shaping the security
environment in critical regions." Note well that PNAC does not want America
to be prepared to fight simultaneous major wars. That is old school. In
order to bring this plan to fruition, the military must fight these wars
one way or the other to establish American dominance for all to see.

Why is this important? After all, wacky think tanks are a cottage industry
in Washington, DC. They are a dime a dozen. In what way does PNAC stand
above the other groups that would set American foreign policy if they could?
Two events brought PNAC into the mainstream of American government: the
disputed election of George W. Bush, and the attacks of September 11th.
When Bush assumed the Presidency, the men who created and nurtured the
imperial dreams of PNAC became the men who run the Pentagon, the Defense
Department and the White House. When the Towers came down, these men saw,
at long last, their chance to turn their White Papers into substantive
policy.

Vice President Dick Cheney is a founding member of PNAC, along with Defense
Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Defense Policy Board chairman Richard Perle.
Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz is the ideological father of the
group. Bruce Jackson, a PNAC director, served as a Pentagon official for
Ronald Reagan before leaving government service to take a leading position
with the weapons manufacturer Lockheed Martin.


PNAC is staffed by men who previously served with groups like Friends of
the Democratic Center in Central America, which supported America's bloody
gamesmanship in Nicaragua and El Salvador, and with groups like The
Committee for the Present Danger, which spent years advocating that a
nuclear war with the Soviet Union was "winnable."


PNAC has recently given birth to a new group, The Committee for the
Liberation of Iraq, which met with National Security Advisor Condoleezza
Rice in order to formulate a plan to "educate" the American populace about
the need for war in Iraq. CLI has funneled millions of taxpayer dollars to
support the Iraqi National Congress and the Iraqi heir presumptive, Ahmed
Chalabi. Chalabi was sentenced in absentia by a Jordanian court in 1992 to
22 years in prison for bank fraud after the collapse of Petra Bank, which
he founded in 1977. Chalabi has not set foot in Iraq since 1956, but his
Enron-like business credentials apparently make him a good match for the
Bush administration's plans.


PNAC's "Rebuilding America's Defenses" report is the institutionalization
of plans and ideologies that have been formulated for decades by the men
currently running American government. The PNAC Statement of Principles is
signed by Cheney, Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld, as well as by Eliot Abrams, Jeb
Bush, Bush's special envoy to Afghanistan Zalmay Khalilzad, and many
others. William Kristol, famed conservative writer for the Weekly Standard,
is also a co-founder of the group. The Weekly Standard is owned by Ruppert
Murdoch, who also owns international media giant Fox News.


The desire for these freshly empowered PNAC men to extend American hegemony
by force of arms across the globe has been there since day one of the Bush
administration, and is in no small part a central reason for the Florida
electoral battle in 2000. Note that while many have said that Gore and Bush
are ideologically identical, Mr. Gore had no ties whatsoever to the fellows
at PNAC. George W. Bush had to win that election by any means necessary,
and PNAC signatory Jeb Bush was in the perfect position to ensure the rise
to prominence of his fellow imperialists. Desire for such action, however,
is by no means translatable into workable policy. Americans enjoy their
comforts, but don't cotton to the idea of being some sort of Neo-Rome.

On September 11th, the fellows from PNAC saw a door of opportunity open
wide before them, and stormed right through it.


Bush released on September 20th 2001 the "National Security Strategy of the
United States of America." It is an ideological match to PNAC's "Rebuilding
America's Defenses" report issued a year earlier. In many places, it uses
exactly the same language to describe America's new place in the world.

Recall that PNAC demanded an increase in defense spending to at least 3.8%
of GDP. Bush's proposed budget for next year asks for $379 billion in
defense spending, almost exactly 3.8% of GDP.


In August of 2002, Defense Policy Board chairman and PNAC member Richard
Perle heard a policy briefing from a think tank associated with the Rand
Corporation. According to the Washington Post and The Nation, the final
slide of this presentation described "Iraq as the tactical pivot, Saudi
Arabia as the strategic pivot, and Egypt as the prize" in a war that would
purportedly be about ridding the world of Saddam Hussein's weapons. Bush
has deployed massive forces into the Mideast region, while simultaneously
engaging American forces in the Philippines and playing nuclear chicken
with North Korea. Somewhere in all this lurks at least one of the "major
theater wars" desired by the September 2000 PNAC report.


Iraq is but the beginning, a pretense for a wider conflict. Donald Kagan, a
central member of PNAC, sees America establishing permanent military bases
in Iraq after the war. This is purportedly a measure to defend the peace in
the Middle East, and to make sure the oil flows. The nations in that
region, however, will see this for what it is: a jump-off point for
American forces to invade any nation in that region they choose to. The
American people, anxiously awaiting some sort of exit plan after America
defeats Iraq, will see too late that no exit is planned.


All of the horses are traveling together at speed here. The defense
contractors who sup on American tax revenue will be handsomely paid for
arming this new American empire. The corporations that own the news media
will sell this eternal war at a profit, as viewership goes through the
stratosphere when there is combat to be shown. Those within the
administration who believe that the defense of Israel is contingent upon
laying waste to every possible aggressor in the region will have their
dreams fulfilled. The PNAC men who wish for a global Pax Americana at
gunpoint will see their plans unfold. Through it all, the bankrollers from
the WTO and the IMF will be able to dictate financial terms to the entire
planet. This last aspect of the plan is pivotal, and is best described in
the newly revised version of Greg Palast's masterpiece, "The Best Democracy
Money Can Buy."


There will be adverse side effects. The siege mentality average Americans
are suffering as they smother behind yards of plastic sheeting and duct
tape will increase by orders of magnitude as our aggressions bring forth
new terrorist attacks against the homeland. These attacks will require the
implementation of the newly drafted Patriot Act II, an augmentation of the
previous Act that has profoundly sharper teeth. The sun will set on the
Constitution and Bill of Rights.

The American economy will be ravaged by the need for increased defense
spending, and by the aforementioned "constabulary" duties in Iraq,
Afghanistan and elsewhere. Former allies will turn on us. Germany, France
and the other nations resisting this Iraq war are fully aware of this game
plan. They are not acting out of cowardice or because they love Saddam
Hussein, but because they mean to resist this rising American empire, lest
they face economic and military serfdom at the hands of George W. Bush.
Richard Perle has already stated that France is no longer an American ally.

As the eagle spreads its wings, our rhetoric and their resistance will
become more agitated and dangerous.


Many people, of course, will die. They will die from war and from want,
from famine and disease. At home, the social fabric will be torn in ways
that make the Reagan nightmares of crack addiction, homelessness and AIDS
seem tame by comparison.


This is the price to be paid for empire, and the men of PNAC who now
control the fate and future of America are more than willing to pay it. For
them, the benefits far outweigh the liabilities.


The plan was running smoothly until those two icebergs collided. Millions
and millions of ordinary people are making it very difficult for Bush's
international allies to keep to the script. PNAC may have designs for the
control of the "International Commons" of the Internet, but for now it is
the staging ground for a movement that would see empire take a back seat to
a wise peace, human rights, equal protection under the law, and the
preponderance of a justice that will, if properly applied, do away forever
with the anger and hatred that gives birth to terrorism in the first place.
Tommaso Palladini of Milan perhaps said it best as he marched with his
countrymen in Rome. "You fight terrorism," he said, "by creating more
justice in the world."


The People versus the Powerful is the oldest story in human history. At no
point in history have the Powerful wielded so much control. At no point in
history has the active and informed involvement of the People, all of them,
been more absolutely required. The tide can be stopped, and the men who
desire empire by the sword can be thwarted. It has already begun, but it
must not cease. These are men of will, and they do not intend to fail.

William Rivers Pitt is a New York Times bestselling author of two books -
"War On Iraq" (with Scott Ritter) available now from Context Books, and
"The Greatest Sedition is Silence," available in May 2003 from Pluto Press.
He teaches high school in Boston, MA.
Scott Lowery contributed research to this report.
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Old June 24th, 2006, 08:01 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by 79CJ-7GE
There are way too many words in that post, could you sum it up for those of us who have attention spans as short as your penis?
x2
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Old June 24th, 2006, 08:12 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmujeeper
They found WMDs that would actually reach the US? I don't think so and I doubt they ever will, but your a bush lover and since you love the BUSH I understand how he can do no wrong in your eyes.
No, they found WMD's...you know, the things libs said "Bush lied" about ? Yeah, those things, that Iraq's anti Israeli/anti US dictator vowed to use?You know, the only things that libs said would "validate" the war? Yup. Found 'em. Been finding them for awhile, it seems. And as far as "reach" the US, the delivery system could be as mundane as a beat-up trawler along our coast....no ICBM needed to deliver a payload, just some fanatics. However, you keep your head in the sand, dispense our tax money to the poor, dismantle our military and see what happens.
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Old June 24th, 2006, 08:25 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishChef
No, they found WMD's...you know, the things libs said "Bush lied" about ? Yeah, those things, that Iraq's anti Israeli/anti US dictator vowed to use?You know, the only things that libs said would "validate" the war? Yup. Found 'em. Been finding them for awhile, it seems. And as far as "reach" the US, the delivery system could be as mundane as a beat-up trawler along our coast....no ICBM needed to deliver a payload, just some fanatics. However, you keep your head in the sand, dispense our tax money to the poor, dismantle our military and see what happens.
Alot of the weapons weren't even nuclear but actually chemical. If some disease infected folks came over by CMU then maybe you would realize the threat needn't be as direct as you once thought. Stand by my guns, when you want to come live in Saginaw and get outside your bubble let me know.:stan3:
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Old June 24th, 2006, 08:30 AM   #30
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However, you keep your head in the sand, dispense our tax money to the poor, dismantle our military and see what happens.
Agreed. It continues to amaze me how people allow the media to influence their thinking ability. Don't believe everything you hear or read. How quickly those same people forget the actions (and inactions) by presidents previous. Take away our freedoms and adopt a socialist plan and then see how bad you think you had it. Why do you think people line up to enter this country everyday? As well as gaining access to our medical care for their urgent needs like transplants? I agree that not every action of every president is going to be the right one. But come on, use the brain that you were given and think a little.

Oh, and I hope all you haters are enjoying the lowest tax rate in a long time.
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Old June 24th, 2006, 09:34 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade II
Take it in it's intended context:
-As a super power we have nukes, but don't use them.
-If they (pick any 3rd world nation) become a super power they want nukes to use them against every and anything living that does not follow their religion or dictator.

Spend some time outside the USA and see just how hated we really are.
YAY, TEAM American To the Rescue!!! Goooo Team America!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandit

Oh, and I hope all you haters are enjoying the lowest tax rate in a long time.
The tax rate is nice since now my long term gains are at a 15% rate but don't you think that it would be a good idea to be taxed and since Bush has range up the largest budget deficit the US has ever seen? You cant have it both ways of spend billions of money and also have lower taxes. Pretty simple principle of don't spend more then you bring in.


The Outstanding Public Debt as of 24 Jun 2006 at 02:33:02 PM GMT is:
$ 8 , 3 9 7 , 0 7 4 , 4 2 6 , 9 1 0 . 8 7

The estimated population of the United States is 298,972,051
so each citizen's share of this debt is $28,086.49.

The National Debt has continued to increase an average of
$1.74 billion per day since September 30, 2005!

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/
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Old June 24th, 2006, 09:34 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandit
Oh, and I hope all you haters are enjoying the lowest tax rate in a long time.
It wont last. As the cycle seems to go, just as we get our heads above the water, the democratic party takes control again. While riding the wave of a republican-led/supported "good" economy, they will increase taxes and fund more handouts until they drag the country down for the next non-democrat to fix.

Who knows what is going to happen next? I hope, for everyone's sake, Ms. Clinton does not get elected.
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Old June 24th, 2006, 09:49 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by ScOoTeR
It wont last. As the cycle seems to go, just as we get our heads above the water, the democratic party takes control again. While riding the wave of a republican-led/supported "good" economy, they will increase taxes and fund more handouts until they drag the country down for the next non-democrat to fix.

Who knows what is going to happen next? I hope, for everyone's sake, Ms. Clinton does not get elected.
Yeah, Budget surpluses are always bad. Stupid Clinton and he's ablitly to manage the budget!! That guy sure was and idiot!!
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Old June 24th, 2006, 10:27 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmujeeper
YAY, TEAM American To the Rescue!!! Goooo Team America!!!
Is that supposed to be a new CMU cheer-leading routine or a response?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmujeeper
blah blah blah blah................
........so each citizen's share of this debt is $28,086.49............
blah blah blah blah...............
I can pay my share, just get more people off welfare to ease the burden. Or isn't that a problem either because it isn't near where you live........

Join the military and see what's outside your bubble world, until then you don't know how good you really have it.
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Old June 24th, 2006, 10:33 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade II
Take it in it's intended context:
-As a super power we have nukes, but don't use them.
We're the only country that has used nukes against people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade II
-If they (pick any 3rd world nation) become a super power they want nukes to use them against every and anything living that does not follow their religion or dictator.
some people think thats exactly what we're doing, just not with nukes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade II
Spend some time outside the USA and see just how hated we really are.
I have, but it was in the 1980's and '90's. I don't think we were hated quite as much back them... I wonder why?

I'm not suggesting that we sould dismantle our military or anything crazy like that, but I don't think that threatening to go to war with any of our enemys that even think about developing nuclear weapons in the answer either.

And what pisses me of even more are the people that seem suprized by the mess we've gotten ourselves into in Iraq. If you had asked me what I thought the situation would be like 3 years after we invaded I would have described exactly what is going on now, with our troops dieing as a result on car bombings and attacks of that nature, a government that can barely stand on it's own 2 feet much less run a country, and warring factions continuing to battle with each other.
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Old June 24th, 2006, 10:39 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by cmujeeper
Yeah, Budget surpluses are always bad. Stupid Clinton and he's ablitly to manage the budget!! That guy sure was and idiot!!
By over taxation and military cuts. That's like someone freeing up a bunch of money in their budget by not paying the mortgage. You can only do that for so long before someone comes and forecloses on your ass.
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Old June 24th, 2006, 10:43 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by ScOoTeR
By over taxation and military cuts. That's like someone freeing up a bunch of money in their budget by not paying the mortgage. You can only do that for so long before someone comes and forecloses on your ass.
But what we're doing now is like someone living beyond thier means by running up thier credit cards, you can only do that so long also.
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Old June 24th, 2006, 10:57 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade II
I can pay my share, just get more people off welfare to ease the burden. Or isn't that a problem either because it isn't near where you live........

Join the military and see what's outside your bubble world, until then you don't know how good you really have it.
I didn't realize there was such a welfare problem in Frankenmuth. I guess you learn something new everyday.


Also, I am from downriver and know the hardships of poor people (which are called blue color workers by most of the world) so don't think I had my college paid for. Since I had to put myself through college I couldn't afford those rose colored glasses that you think I view the world through.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScOoTeR
By over taxation and military cuts. That's like someone freeing up a bunch of money in their budget by not paying the mortgage. You can only do that for so long before someone comes and forecloses on your ass.
So lets get way in debt way over our head to have all our fun military toys. I'm sure my old highschool would love new books for 100 years or so with the money that was spent in one hour paying for the Iraq war.

Take care of your homeland first.
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Old June 24th, 2006, 11:25 AM   #39
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just cause he is a tree hugging liberal doesnt mean u have to make fun of him. lol
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Old June 24th, 2006, 01:05 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmujeeper
Yeah, Budget surpluses are always bad. Stupid Clinton and he's ablitly to manage the budget!! That guy sure was and idiot!!
clinton didnt manage the budget he (to his credit) just stood back and rode the wave of prosperity, he did not one thing i can think of (and challenge you to name one thing ) he did to promote the economic boom of the mid to late 1990s.
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