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Old August 3rd, 2009, 12:53 AM   #1
The Fallis
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Toll Roads in MI? wtf?

anybody else read the article in the paper today?

apparently they want to "test drive" some tolls on Michigan freeways at busy interstate locations that otherwise dont have a good route around, aka avoiding them would cost you more than going through them...

such as... Oakland county on I-75

who would have guessed? thanks again Michigan goverment for planning on taking more of my money
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Old August 3rd, 2009, 01:18 AM   #2
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I'm all for it. considering how much I spend yearly on alignments and parts because of our shit roads, something needs to happen.
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Old August 3rd, 2009, 05:30 AM   #3
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I'm all for it. considering how much I spend yearly on alignments and parts because of our shit roads, something needs to happen.
as long as 100 percent of the money went back to the roads, by one of those speed passes like in chicago or florida
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Old August 3rd, 2009, 06:30 AM   #4
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I could see them using all the money they collect for tolls on the roads, and then just divert money currently going into them into their special programs.

Just like they did for Lotto. Sure all the money you spend on Lotto goes right to the schools, but the taxes they used to collect for schools has been diverted to other programs.

F that.
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Old August 3rd, 2009, 09:09 AM   #5
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more state fail. our roads aren't set up for toll roads. whos going to pay to install booths? this would be fine if the state had a surplus, but when you're in debt you don't spend more to try and make more.
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Old August 3rd, 2009, 06:25 PM   #6
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being from new jersey aka the toll booth capital of the US. i would suggest that everyone oppose this idea. if you have ever been to jersey on the parkway or turnpike where there are tolls every exit or every 10 miles, which cause major traffic jams during high traffic hours. you would see why this is a majorly bad idea. i like being able to get on 75 and go anywhere without paying, or sitting in hours of traffic.
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Old August 3rd, 2009, 06:28 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Kodiak450r View Post
being from new jersey aka the toll booth capital of the US. i would suggest that everyone oppose this idea. if you have ever been to jersey on the parkway or turnpike where there are tolls every exit or every 10 miles, which cause major traffic jams during high traffic hours. you would see why this is a majorly bad idea. i like being able to get on 75 and go anywhere without paying, or sitting in hours of traffic.
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Old August 3rd, 2009, 06:34 PM   #8
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it would cost a lot of money to get everything set up, so I would be against it since all the money would go to pay for all the new booths. If the money went to a good cause I would be ok with it like fixing our roads or putting the money into schools
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Old August 3rd, 2009, 06:39 PM   #9
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I could see them using all the money they collect for tolls on the roads, and then just divert money currently going into them into their special programs.

Just like they did for Lotto. Sure all the money you spend on Lotto goes right to the schools, but the taxes they used to collect for schools has been diverted to other programs.

F that.
people love to use the lotto example without actually looking at the numbers involved in state education vs lotto earnings.

http://www.michigan.gov/lottery/0,16...3851--,00.html
on average approximately $600-700 million goes from Lottery proceeds directly into the state school fund.

Not counting local school bond collections (think infrastructure costs) the total State Education Tax (from your property taxes) totals 2.1 Billion Dollars for year ending 2008.

http://www.michigan.gov/taxes/0,1607...7815--,00.html <-- several years worth of reporting there.

note: there really were not any other monies allocated to school funding prior to the lottery - the lottery was enabled prior to proposal a) in 1994, and back then, if a local schools needed more money they simply pressured the local populace to enable additional tax millage - which is why in areas like Southfield Lathrup School district one would see per pupil spending over 10k/year and in bumfuck egypt michigan it was under 3k.

fact: this 'magical shift' in taxes for school funding never took place as it relates to the lottery.

as for michigan tolls, I already rarely drive michigan freeways, including 75 in oakland county as it seems more often than not traffic volumes are such that the speedlimit is nothing but a fanciful dream during rush hours, and the congestion amount is never consistent.
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Old August 3rd, 2009, 09:05 PM   #10
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I think this is a horrible idea. If they need more money for road maintenance raise the tax on gas. Were already paying that tax so it won't cost the state anything to raise it a little. building a toll collection will cost lots of money, and will cost even more to maintain.

The states with toll roads tend to be "drive through" states. Places like Illinois, Indiana, and the little states out east. you can drive through these states without stopping for gas, so they can't make money on people just passing through unless they charge tolls. And the fee structure is often set up to collect as much as possible from out of staters. Except for people heading for Canada (who we can get with bridge/tunnel tolls) nobody goes though Michigan to get anywhere else, so why have the hassle of tolls when we can just collect more through gas taxes?
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Old August 3rd, 2009, 11:09 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
I think this is a horrible idea. If they need more money for road maintenance raise the tax on gas. Were already paying that tax so it won't cost the state anything to raise it a little. building a toll collection will cost lots of money, and will cost even more to maintain.

The states with toll roads tend to be "drive through" states. Places like Illinois, Indiana, and the little states out east. you can drive through these states without stopping for gas, so they can't make money on people just passing through unless they charge tolls. And the fee structure is often set up to collect as much as possible from out of staters. Except for people heading for Canada (who we can get with bridge/tunnel tolls) nobody goes though Michigan to get anywhere else, so why have the hassle of tolls when we can just collect more through gas taxes?
they are already getting untold monies for the roads. they are wasting the money. period.

this just shows that our state government cannot even see the simplest of problems with doing something like this.
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Old August 3rd, 2009, 11:30 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
I think this is a horrible idea. If they need more money for road maintenance raise the tax on gas. Were already paying that tax so it won't cost the state anything to raise it a little. building a toll collection will cost lots of money, and will cost even more to maintain.

The states with toll roads tend to be "drive through" states. Places like Illinois, Indiana, and the little states out east. you can drive through these states without stopping for gas, so they can't make money on people just passing through unless they charge tolls. And the fee structure is often set up to collect as much as possible from out of staters. Except for people heading for Canada (who we can get with bridge/tunnel tolls) nobody goes though Michigan to get anywhere else, so why have the hassle of tolls when we can just collect more through gas taxes?
Like locally tax gas, or tax it state wide? I don't drive on 75... why should I pay for it?
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Old August 4th, 2009, 06:33 AM   #13
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Like locally tax gas, or tax it state wide? I don't drive on 75... why should I pay for it?
State wide. I never drive US131 through K-zoo either, why should I have to pay for that? The point isn't to charge tolls to pay for that specific highway, it's to pick certain places where they can suck the maximum amount of money from people to fund the highway department.
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Old August 4th, 2009, 08:34 AM   #14
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granholm and her overpaid dummy brigade need to stop wasting money

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/03...tax-for-roads/

http://www.crcmich.org/Almanac/Taxes/mtrfhist.html

http://www.americansforprosperity.or...crease-gas-tax

this is a good one.
http://house.michigan.gov/hfa/PDFs/source8.pdf
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Old August 5th, 2009, 02:12 AM   #15
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They need to fix roads somehow.. not sure if this is the right way of doing it but we have the worst roads in America i guarantee it
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Old August 5th, 2009, 09:04 AM   #16
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being from new jersey aka the toll booth capital of the US. i would suggest that everyone oppose this idea. if you have ever been to jersey on the parkway or turnpike where there are tolls every exit or every 10 miles, which cause major traffic jams during high traffic hours. you would see why this is a majorly bad idea. i like being able to get on 75 and go anywhere without paying, or sitting in hours of traffic.
I'm from NJ too. You weren't old enough to drive when it was really bad. Getting around when I go home these days is a cakewalk compared to what it used to be.
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Old August 5th, 2009, 09:59 AM   #17
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FTW!
Older meanings of FTW

Years ago, "FTW" used to have a very negative meaning: "f**k the world". This was a term commonly used by social rebels, anarchists and anti-authoritarian types to express frustration with modern society. Gratefully, this antisocial meaning has tically faded in use in the 21st century, and people largely use "for the win" as the modern meaning for this acronym now.
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Old August 5th, 2009, 10:54 AM   #18
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Unfortunately Michigan has become a cesspool of cronyism. The road construction industry has benefited greatly from this. State road construction requirements are so horribly lax, that we get what we ask for. We do not require roads to be engineered with proper foundations, use quality materials, use new technology and techniques, or require high quality end products. What does this do? It allows companies to use sub-standard materials, skimp on underlayment, rush jobs, and produce sub-par roads that will need to be rebuilt about the time that the construction company needs a new project. Many believe that building roads with new technology will put hordes of construction workers out of jobs as the roads may last 20+ years before needing any substantial repair or replacement. They forget that it will take a VERY long time to replace our highways with the roads that we SHOULD be getting now. What may take 4 months to complete now may take 8 months if they have to prepare proper foundations and do the job properly. This is going to keep construction workers happily working for decades just replacing the shitty roads we have now. The money we save in pothole repairs, roadway replacements every 4-5 years, and increased tax revenues from business that don't lose money fixing wrecked trucks that are blown apart by potholes will more than offset the increased cost of building roads that will last 20+ years. It is funny to cross the border in to Canada and drive their roads. They are in MUCH better condition, last MUCH longer, and they have weather conditions that are way worse than we do. They also don't have grossly overloaded semi's destroying the roads like we do in MI. It is just one giant scam that is lining the pockets of politicians, road construction companies, and paying for votes. Until the "system" is fixed, the roads never will be.
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Old August 5th, 2009, 12:33 PM   #19
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look at I75 michigan side = the junk, when you cross to ohio it gets much better
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Old August 5th, 2009, 12:37 PM   #20
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