this is a wake up - Page 2 - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest

Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

Politics, Government, or Religion Chat Bring your flamesuit!

greatlakes4x4.com is the premier All Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old July 10th, 2009, 09:30 PM   #21
XXXJ
Desert Rat
 
XXXJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-09-07
Location: Memphis, Mi
Posts: 5,570
iTrader: (12)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Why didn't they file a complaint with Dearborn PD?
Definately a battery charge.
__________________
If I didn't think with my penis, I wouldn't think at all

I hope I am not a racist, I mean I drive fast, But I am not specialized at it.
XXXJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old July 10th, 2009, 09:32 PM   #22
bigbchevy
missmrgreenagain
 
bigbchevy's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-15-07
Location: fenton /hartland mi
Posts: 18,703
iTrader: (166)
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ovrlnd View Post
shit this stuff really pisses me off. these beings are rodents and should be treated like such. gtfo of america. you want to change something, change your own country.
x1000000000000000000000000
bigbchevy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old July 11th, 2009, 06:18 AM   #23
MrGrey
propane evangelist
 
MrGrey's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06-04-07
Location: Davison
Posts: 798
iTrader: (4)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FQXehhhh View Post
I'm not any form of liberal Obama lover. But don't the people who rented the premises have a right to decide where people can and cannot film? Whom is and is not allowed on the premises? I may have a complete misunderstanding of how "Arab Fest" works.

And they should at least get more than one person who speaks English if they are trying to keep out Christians haha
Looked like it was taking place on public streets, so I don't think a "premises" was rented per se.

I would be curious to get Hombre's take on the legalities of it all and how the PD should have handled it.
MrGrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 11th, 2009, 08:35 AM   #24
upchuck
Senior Member
 
upchuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10-16-07
Location: grand rapids, Michigan
Posts: 1,100
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

thump thump thump
upchuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 11th, 2009, 08:57 AM   #25
Broncoholic
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Mentioned: Post(s)
Default

Hombre where are you
  Reply With Quote
Old July 11th, 2009, 09:05 AM   #26
PeteC
Get Up and Go
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Oak Park, Michigan
Posts: 2,558
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuggets View Post
1: Fuck Muslems if they don't like the United States.

2: The people with the cameras were from a Christian group and I feel their purpose at the festival was to create some type of ill will towards the religion of Islam, hence the documentation.

3: If a Muslem group went to "Jesus Fest" and did the exact same thing as these "Christians", They would leave with a boot up their ass.
Agreed.

Sharia law and Muslim influence is a concern. Europe is having problems with it now, and France, yes France is in the forefront of trying to contain this problem.
I agree with religious freedom, but it must not be allowed to interfere with the laws of the land and the rights of others to choose for themselves.

As for this situation, here are my thoughts.

The people with the camera went there with the sole purpose of causing just the kind of issues we saw. Of course, there was editing involved so we do not see and hear everything they did. It would be one thing for me to walk up to the table and ask questions, but this guy did it with at least 2 cameras rolling and at least one other person running interference while wearing a t-shirt that gave away his true intentions. They got what they wanted. Freedom of speech only goes so far, it does not allow you to incite hatred or a riot. So, in this case, the subjects intentions are suspect.

As far as the Security team, there are full of it. They handled the situation less than poorly. I feel some of their actions were based on cultural beliefs and the way things are done back in the old country. That does not fly here from a legal or social standpoint. However, they can ask people to leave if they are causing trouble. In this case, they should have called in the PD a lot sooner. And I sincerely hope that if there are any charges filed that they are looked at with an even legal hand.

This group went to the event with one goal, and they attained that goal, confrontation. They did not go there for answers, they went there for sensationalism. They got exactly what they wanted and that is something we should all realize.

As far as Muslims going to a Christian event, yes, they would get the same reception.
These guys weren't much different than the Westboro Baptist Church at Military funerals.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FQXehhhh View Post
guido fest 2009

I'm not any form of liberal Obama lover. But don't the people who rented the premises have a right to decide where people can and cannot film? Whom is and is not allowed on the premises? I may have a complete misunderstanding of how "Arab Fest" works.

And they should at least get more than one person who speaks English if they are trying to keep out Christians haha
On private property, you may well be correct. But this was not private property. However, security is there to be the eyes and ears of the PD and watch for trouble.

I am curious, why is it you predicate your statement saying you are not a "liberal Obama lover" when asking a legal question? Is that what this forum has reduced us to? Being afraid of asking a legitimate question for fear of being labeled? Do you realize that is exactly what radical Islam does? Divide and conquer. Make it dangerous to stand up in opposition for fear of retribution. This is something that really needs to stop. Part of being free is recognizing another persons right to an opposing opinion. In fact, it is celebrated in this country, the right to speak up and to speak out.

p.s. The above was simply my opinion of the video I watched and the state of affairs as I know them in this country today.

p.s.s. On 9/11/2001, my wife worked in Dearborn and I feared for her life. I asked her to leave work as soon as possible and head into Detroit for the drive home as I thought she would be safer.

p.s.s. We have quite a few Chaldean friends, good people, killer humus and stuffed grape leaves recipes. (Chaldean= Christian Arabs)

Last edited by PeteC; July 11th, 2009 at 09:10 AM.
PeteC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 11th, 2009, 09:13 AM   #27
Grumpy1
Senior Member
 
Grumpy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-27-06
Location: Berkley
Posts: 892
iTrader: (4)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

I could see how you feel their sole purpose to attend was confrontation but not once did I see them do anything more then ask questions.

This is the US of A and if they want to ask they have that right. The entire situation was handled poorly and thats a huge understatement.
Grumpy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 11th, 2009, 10:02 AM   #28
aber61
Senior Member
 
aber61's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-22-08
Location: Commerce Twp. Michigan
Posts: 6,083
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuggets View Post
1: Fuck Muslems if they don't like the United States.

2: The people with the cameras were from a Christian group and I feel their purpose at the festival was to create some type of ill will towards the religion of Islam, hence the documentation.

3: If a Muslem group went to "Jesus Fest" and did the exact same thing as these "Christians", They would leave with a boot up their ass.
You have got it wrong nugget, the muslims like america, it is ripe for thier pickings, they want to populate america as to over take and control through islam, have you not seen what is happening in europe, france is 50% muslim.
The people with the camera were trying to make a point, ask a question and get an answer. They did not get an answer because what the muslims are trying to do is convert people to islam through disception, hence the wording islam and terrorism. It is the western world that is the terrorist to the muslims, so they think, but we are not cutting off thier heads because they do not see things our way. The documentation you talk about is to show that the muslims are trying to hide something. Tha is why they did not want what they were to say on camera. Look at act17.net again
And a muslim group would not go to a Jesus fest, maybe one at a time. Do you know that if a muslim converts to Christianity it is the duty of other muslims to KILL the one who left the religion of islam. As a Christian would accept a muslim and tell them about God and not as you put it a boot up thier ass
aber61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 11th, 2009, 11:06 AM   #29
Chiefwoohaw
Pokerob is my B*tch!
 
Chiefwoohaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-06-05
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 11,505
iTrader: (7)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

With the Jobless rate so high in SEMI and many crazy people in the image of Hombre I'm suprised that Muslim hunting does not become a passion/work for the people in the region. . . they are hated.


I do think the intentions were less then 100% honorable but at the same time I did not see any reason for what took place.
Chiefwoohaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 11th, 2009, 07:15 PM   #30
Mr Toes - R.I.P.
November 7, 1958 - July 22, 2011
 
Mr Toes - R.I.P.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-29-07
Location: Belleville Mi
Posts: 4,727
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

The people with the camera went there with the sole purpose of causing just the kind of issues we saw. Of course, there was editing involved so we do not see and hear everything they did. It would be one thing for me to walk up to the table and ask questions, but this guy did it with at least 2 cameras rolling and at least one other person running interference while wearing a t-shirt that gave away his true intentions. They got what they wanted. Freedom of speech only goes so far, it does not allow you to incite hatred or a riot. So, in this case, the subjects intentions are suspect.


Spoken like a true liberal socialist.

We will give you Freedoms as long as they fall in the paramiters we set down.
If the rolls where reversed you would have seen that all over the T.V. with accusations of descrimination, violation of Freedom of speech, and violation of your right to religion.

Kissing minority ass is getting old......
Mr Toes - R.I.P. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 11th, 2009, 11:31 PM   #31
Nuggets
I fix stuff!
 
Nuggets's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-15-06
Location: Bay City, MI
Posts: 13,419
iTrader: (13)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aber61 View Post
You have got it wrong nugget, the muslims like america, it is ripe for thier pickings, they want to populate america as to over take and control through islam, have you not seen what is happening in europe, france is 50% muslim.
The people with the camera were trying to make a point, ask a question and get an answer. They did not get an answer because what the muslims are trying to do is convert people to islam through disception, hence the wording islam and terrorism. It is the western world that is the terrorist to the muslims, so they think, but we are not cutting off thier heads because they do not see things our way. The documentation you talk about is to show that the muslims are trying to hide something. Tha is why they did not want what they were to say on camera. Look at act17.net again
And a muslim group would not go to a Jesus fest, maybe one at a time. Do you know that if a muslim converts to Christianity it is the duty of other muslims to KILL the one who left the religion of islam. As a Christian would accept a muslim and tell them about God and not as you put it a boot up thier ass
From what you have posted on other threads, I have no respect for your opinion.
Nuggets is online now   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2009, 12:16 AM   #32
PeteC
Get Up and Go
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Oak Park, Michigan
Posts: 2,558
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Toes View Post
The people with the camera went there with the sole purpose of causing just the kind of issues we saw. Of course, there was editing involved so we do not see and hear everything they did. It would be one thing for me to walk up to the table and ask questions, but this guy did it with at least 2 cameras rolling and at least one other person running interference while wearing a t-shirt that gave away his true intentions. They got what they wanted. Freedom of speech only goes so far, it does not allow you to incite hatred or a riot. So, in this case, the subjects intentions are suspect.


Spoken like a true liberal socialist.

We will give you Freedoms as long as they fall in the paramiters we set down.
If the rolls where reversed you would have seen that all over the T.V. with accusations of descrimination, violation of Freedom of speech, and violation of your right to religion.

Kissing minority ass is getting old......

Well, I guess after reading this I can go into t acrowded theater tomorrow and yell fire. After all, I am just using my freedom of speech rights. Yeppers. cut and dry.
PeteC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2009, 12:47 AM   #33
Monkeyevil
I <3 Miatas
 
Monkeyevil's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Kalamazoo, MI
Posts: 8,987
iTrader: (16)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to Monkeyevil
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Toes View Post
Spoken like a true liberal socialist.

We will give you Freedoms as long as they fall in the paramiters we set down.
If the rolls where reversed you would have seen that all over the T.V. with accusations of descrimination, violation of Freedom of speech, and violation of your right to religion.

Kissing minority ass is getting old......
Bullshit, atheists groups do this sort of thing all the time and no one cares.
__________________
JcrOffroad
Zoom Zoom!
Monkeyevil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2009, 03:49 AM   #34
fatboy21
Do it in the mud
 
fatboy21's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-04-06
Location: Orion, Mi
Posts: 1,973
iTrader: (4)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to fatboy21
Default

Shit If I was them. I would be rolling in the cash. I would have sued every one of them that touched me, the owner of the company that hired them plus the people that put on the event for hireing that sicurite company
fatboy21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2009, 08:36 AM   #35
Mr Toes - R.I.P.
November 7, 1958 - July 22, 2011
 
Mr Toes - R.I.P.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-29-07
Location: Belleville Mi
Posts: 4,727
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteC View Post
Well, I guess after reading this I can go into t acrowded theater tomorrow and yell fire. After all, I am just using my freedom of speech rights. Yeppers. cut and dry.
Better yet walk into a bank and scream this is a stick up, don't move or I'll kill you all, because thats just like asking a question at a fair.

I say go for it, I would support your right to free speech.
Mr Toes - R.I.P. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2009, 08:38 AM   #36
Mr Toes - R.I.P.
November 7, 1958 - July 22, 2011
 
Mr Toes - R.I.P.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-29-07
Location: Belleville Mi
Posts: 4,727
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkeyevil View Post
Bullshit, atheists groups do this sort of thing all the time and no one cares.
Can you kinda clairify that.....
Mr Toes - R.I.P. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2009, 10:35 AM   #37
fatboy21
Do it in the mud
 
fatboy21's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-04-06
Location: Orion, Mi
Posts: 1,973
iTrader: (4)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to fatboy21
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Toes View Post
Can you kinda clairify that.....
I think he means going it and disrupting a Christian festival because their beliefs are different
fatboy21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2009, 03:18 PM   #38
FQXehhhh
Senior Member
 
FQXehhhh's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-20-06
Location: Dexter
Posts: 2,311
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

[QUOTE=PeteC;1763044]

I am curious, why is it you predicate your statement saying you are not a "liberal Obama lover" when asking a legal question? Is that what this forum has reduced us to? Being afraid of asking a legitimate question for fear of being labeled? Do you realize that is exactly what radical Islam does? Divide and conquer. Make it dangerous to stand up in opposition for fear of retribution. This is something that really needs to stop. Part of being free is recognizing another persons right to an opposing opinion. In fact, it is celebrated in this country, the right to speak up and to speak out.

/QUOTE]

I suppose what I said came out wrong
FQXehhhh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2009, 08:12 PM   #39
aber61
Senior Member
 
aber61's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-22-08
Location: Commerce Twp. Michigan
Posts: 6,083
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuggets View Post
From what you have posted on other threads, I have no respect for your opinion.
I don't recall asking for your opinion. And from what you have posted, that is also questionable.
But if you wanted to debate this then great. The guy in the video, he was somewhat out of line and knew how to ruffle the feathers of the muslims, so that is what he did. Was he right or wrong? He could have handled it differently
aber61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2009, 09:10 PM   #40
brewmenn
Grumpy old man.
 
brewmenn's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Inkster, MI
Posts: 10,445
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

They went to a festival with every intention of stirring up trouble. Security had every right to ask they to leave. Thats what there their for. If I was at a 4 wheeling event and Greenpeace and the Sierra Club showed up and started stirring up trouble I would want the right to ask them to leave also.

As for the "battery" I call BS. Anyone else find it interesting that although they claimed to have been "hit" 16 times they only managed to record actual contact one or twice? I think sound effects were added during editing to make it sound like they were actually hit when most seen to have been little more than an incidental touch.

As for the right to video tape, sure, I guess they have that right, but the guy in the question booth has the right to ask that they stop taping, to refuse to talk while being taped, and to put his hand in front of the camera.

As for how the security crew handled it I think they did a pretty god job except for the one guard that kept swatting at the camera. The crew chief was doing a great job, instructing his people to not tough them, at times placing himself between his crew and them, and herding then towards the police to let them handle it. His only downfall was making threats that he couldn't legally carry out.

I think the woman on the radio was correct, following someone around with a camera would fit the definition of "harassment".
brewmenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:35 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright 2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Page generated in 0.38479 seconds with 80 queries