DNR closed a seasonal road - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest

Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > 4x4 Land Use > Rules, Regulations, Trail, and ORV Park Chat
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

greatlakes4x4.com is the premier Great Lakes 4x4 Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old June 28th, 2009, 12:49 PM   #1
Jeepardy
Member
 
Jeepardy's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05-13-09
Location: Hamilton 49419
Posts: 54
iTrader: (4)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default DNR closed a seasonal road

A couple of us were driving seasonal roads in Allegan County and came across one that was posted closed to motorized vehicles. This road is listed as seasonal by Allegan County Roads Commission on their website. This is in Valley Twp, seasonal road #6 Old Allegan from 120th to 122nd.http://www.alleganroads.org/seasroad.htm

Me question is Since this is a listed Seasonal Road and under the Jurisdiction of the ACRC, can the DNR limit motorized vehicle traffic? If not is there anything that can be done to correct this signage.

Last edited by Jeepardy; June 28th, 2009 at 01:03 PM.
Jeepardy is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old June 28th, 2009, 01:06 PM   #2
insaneoffroader
Senior Member
 
insaneoffroader's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-11-08
Location: Allegan
Posts: 2,429
iTrader: (10)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

call acrc monday and talk to mr bill nelson.

Last edited by insaneoffroader; June 28th, 2009 at 01:10 PM.
insaneoffroader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 29th, 2009, 08:03 AM   #3
Jeepardy
Member
 
Jeepardy's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05-13-09
Location: Hamilton 49419
Posts: 54
iTrader: (4)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by insaneoffroader View Post
call acrc monday and talk to mr bill nelson.
thanks for the info, any suggestion on how to approach them. Am I right in assuming they still have jurisdiction over that particular seasonal road? I'm new to this and want to make sure I do the right thing and don't piss anyone off.
Jeepardy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 29th, 2009, 08:10 AM   #4
clarkstoncracker
lol
 
clarkstoncracker's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-03-05
Location: OC - MI
Posts: 42,616
iTrader: (40)
Mentioned: 131 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to clarkstoncracker
Default

How is it closed? Is it chained, or just posted no traffic? What kind of signs?
__________________
clarkstoncracker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 29th, 2009, 08:17 AM   #5
Jeepardy
Member
 
Jeepardy's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05-13-09
Location: Hamilton 49419
Posts: 54
iTrader: (4)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

just sign in the north side, friend has the pic of it I'm going to double check the south side to see if it is signed/chained. We didn't go beyond the sign and were actually checking out trash sites for a cleanup we're trying to organize
Jeepardy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 29th, 2009, 09:02 AM   #6
Boss Hog
'79 CJ-7
 
Join Date: 06-29-09
Location: Big Rapids, MI
Posts: 1
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Is the surrounding property state land? My understanding is that seasonal road ownership reverts to the surrounding land owner if the county does not do any maintenance for a certain period of time.
Boss Hog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 29th, 2009, 11:51 PM   #7
Trail_Fanatic
Member since 1994
 
Trail_Fanatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-25-06
Location: Muskegon and Oceana Counties
Posts: 3,174
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss Hog View Post
Is the surrounding property state land? My understanding is that seasonal road ownership reverts to the surrounding land owner if the county does not do any maintenance for a certain period of time.
It's theirs forever, unless they abandon it (requires public process) or knowingly allow it to be obstructed for 10 consecutive years.

Aske the ACRC if the road is in fact still claimed by them.
If the answer is yes, explain that it's been posted closed and ask them if they can send someone out to remove teh improper signage from their road.

OR (WAY more fun but more expensive way)

If they say yes it's still a CRC road, have the CRC send you confirmation IN WRITING on official letterhead (They've done it for me before). Then drive up and down it until the DNR gives you a ticket. TAKE the ticket. Go to Court and show the Magistrate the CRC paper.
Trail_Fanatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30th, 2009, 06:31 AM   #8
clarkstoncracker
lol
 
clarkstoncracker's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-03-05
Location: OC - MI
Posts: 42,616
iTrader: (40)
Mentioned: 131 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to clarkstoncracker
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trail_Fanatic View Post
If they say yes it's still a CRC road, have the CRC send you confirmation IN WRITING on official letterhead (They've done it for me before). Then drive up and down it until the DNR gives you a ticket. TAKE the ticket. Go to Court and show the Magistrate the CRC paper.
Make sure you post a trail ride down the road in the trail ride forum here so there will be DNR waiting to nab you!
__________________
clarkstoncracker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30th, 2009, 07:21 AM   #9
Rockstar
sɐƃǝʌ sɐן
 
Rockstar's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-25-07
Location: Taylor,Mi
Posts: 8,504
iTrader: (11)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

Wow just Wow
Rockstar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30th, 2009, 08:35 AM   #10
Trail_Fanatic
Member since 1994
 
Trail_Fanatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-25-06
Location: Muskegon and Oceana Counties
Posts: 3,174
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkstoncracker View Post
Make sure you post a trail ride down the road in the trail ride forum here so there will be DNR waiting to nab you!

Trail_Fanatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30th, 2009, 08:42 AM   #11
Trail_Fanatic
Member since 1994
 
Trail_Fanatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-25-06
Location: Muskegon and Oceana Counties
Posts: 3,174
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

I should also post that if this is determined to be a CRC road, we NEED to keep an eye on the CRC meetings for several months after it's brought to their attention. The DNR may submit a Petition for Abandonment. If this were to happen, we would want to show up in mass at the Public Hearing to let the CRC know that the "public" wants it kept on the books.

We'll need to work together to make sure that if this comes to pass, we know about it.
Can anyone here go to the ACRC meetings?
Maybe some of the Cheap Thrills guys or Aces?
Maybe a different person for each meeting so nobody has to miss much work? We just need a "reporter" at each meeting.

The CRC might be willing to call if a petition is received, but they are NOT required to do so legally. So the only way to play it safe is to go to the meetings.
Trail_Fanatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30th, 2009, 09:02 AM   #12
Jeepardy
Member
 
Jeepardy's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05-13-09
Location: Hamilton 49419
Posts: 54
iTrader: (4)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trail_Fanatic View Post
I should also post that if this is determined to be a CRC road, we NEED to keep an eye on the CRC meetings for several months after it's brought to their attention. The DNR may submit a Petition for Abandonment. If this were to happen, we would want to show up in mass at the Public Hearing to let the CRC know that the "public" wants it kept on the books.

We'll need to work together to make sure that if this comes to pass, we know about it.
Can anyone here go to the ACRC meetings?
Maybe some of the Cheap Thrills guys or Aces?
Maybe a different person for each meeting so nobody has to miss much work? We just need a "reporter" at each meeting.

The CRC might be willing to call if a petition is received, but they are NOT required to do so legally. So the only way to play it safe is to go to the meetings.
Thanks for the info TF, I'm a member of ACES and will talk to other members about going to ACRC meetings and maybe the township in question also. This is why we formed our club and just getting started, every piece of advise is appreciated.

As an update to the situation we talked to a contact we had at ACRC, he took it upline to his supervisor, they knew nothing about the sign and contacted DNR about it, the DNR says they knew nothing about it and would check it out. The ACRC abandoned a stretch of seasonal in an adjacent township several years ago, not this particular one. There are a couple of private land owners on this stretch of road and they may have posted it to reduce traffic, its part of a nice run on seasonal roads.
Jeepardy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30th, 2009, 09:24 AM   #13
sachenard
wileyeyejeep
 
sachenard's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-11-08
Location: allegan mi
Posts: 117
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeepardy View Post
Thanks for the info TF, I'm a member of ACES and will talk to other members about going to ACRC meetings and maybe the township in question also. This is why we formed our club and just getting started, every piece of advise is appreciated.

As an update to the situation we talked to a contact we had at ACRC, he took it upline to his supervisor, they knew nothing about the sign and contacted DNR about it, the DNR says they knew nothing about it and would check it out. The ACRC abandoned a stretch of seasonal in an adjacent township several years ago, not this particular one. There are a couple of private land owners on this stretch of road and they may have posted it to reduce traffic, its part of a nice run on seasonal roads.

As told to me by the ACRC, they cannot abondon that road due to the property owners only access to their property. The only way they can is if the state purchases that land and the ACRC does abandon. That is what we are here for is to get roads to stay open and hopefully work to get more reopened and create a trail system in Allegan county.

We will keep a sharp eye open for postings like these and continue to follow the same plan that we just did. Some of us are going to spend the rest of the summer wheelin a lot of these seasonal roads to check out any and all postings that may be where they are not supposed to be, and figure out why they are.

Thank you for all of your help and advice in this matter.
sachenard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30th, 2009, 09:42 AM   #14
Trail_Fanatic
Member since 1994
 
Trail_Fanatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-25-06
Location: Muskegon and Oceana Counties
Posts: 3,174
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeepardy View Post
Thanks for the info TF, I'm a member of ACES and will talk to other members about going to ACRC meetings and maybe the township in question also. This is why we formed our club and just getting started, every piece of advise is appreciated.

As an update to the situation we talked to a contact we had at ACRC, he took it upline to his supervisor, they knew nothing about the sign and contacted DNR about it, the DNR says they knew nothing about it and would check it out. The ACRC abandoned a stretch of seasonal in an adjacent township several years ago, not this particular one. There are a couple of private land owners on this stretch of road and they may have posted it to reduce traffic, its part of a nice run on seasonal roads.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sachenard View Post
As told to me by the ACRC, they cannot abondon that road due to the property owners only access to their property. The only way they can is if the state purchases that land and the ACRC does abandon. That is what we are here for is to get roads to stay open and hopefully work to get more reopened and create a trail system in Allegan county.

We will keep a sharp eye open for postings like these and continue to follow the same plan that we just did. Some of us are going to spend the rest of the summer wheelin a lot of these seasonal roads to check out any and all postings that may be where they are not supposed to be, and figure out why they are.

Thank you for all of your help and advice in this matter.
Thanks guys!

If you EVER find something that's "not quite right", don't hesitate to contact me! Your goal for Allegan County is the same as GLFWDA's goal for the entire State of Michigan. We're a perfect pair. Let me know if there's ever anything I can do for you.
Trail_Fanatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30th, 2009, 03:52 PM   #15
greatpumpkin
Newbie No More
 
greatpumpkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06-15-06
Location: Allegan Mi
Posts: 1,120
iTrader: (2)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Pat that trail is one used by me alot. This trail is used on the Anyrun. This the trail that Adam smacked a tree, while pulling Jack out of the woods.
I personnally spent 6-7 hours clearing downed pine tree..s after a huge storm many years ago. So I need to drive out there and see what's up,but when I get time is the ?
greatpumpkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30th, 2009, 06:04 PM   #16
Trail_Fanatic
Member since 1994
 
Trail_Fanatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-25-06
Location: Muskegon and Oceana Counties
Posts: 3,174
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by greatpumpkin View Post
Pat that trail is one used by me alot. This trail is used on the Anyrun. This the trail that Adam smacked a tree, while pulling Jack out of the woods.
I personnally spent 6-7 hours clearing downed pine tree..s after a huge storm many years ago. So I need to drive out there and see what's up,but when I get time is the ?

Hopefully it's all open by the time you get there!
Trail_Fanatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30th, 2009, 11:14 PM   #17
Jeepardy
Member
 
Jeepardy's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05-13-09
Location: Hamilton 49419
Posts: 54
iTrader: (4)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

I went out there tonight to take a pic I could see. Here's a pic of the sign in question, the nails holding it look quite fresh.

I felt I had enough ammo to fight any ticket given to me so here are some pics of the road


It's a beautiful stretch of road that needs to be marked correctly

PS Thanks to all on the info given to us, I'll keep my eyes out to see when this sign gets taken down and followup

Last edited by Jeepardy; June 30th, 2009 at 11:18 PM.
Jeepardy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30th, 2009, 11:31 PM   #18
Trail_Fanatic
Member since 1994
 
Trail_Fanatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-25-06
Location: Muskegon and Oceana Counties
Posts: 3,174
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Wow! No bicycles either!

They're getting mean!
Trail_Fanatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 1st, 2009, 08:02 AM   #19
upchuck
Senior Member
 
upchuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10-16-07
Location: grand rapids, Michigan
Posts: 1,100
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Only people that think of the woods, but never go there, the posie sniffer type in birkenstocks, tie die etc. No fun of any kind!
upchuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 1st, 2009, 09:46 AM   #20
CreativeFab
used to be Ironman
 
CreativeFab's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-01-05
Location: midland
Posts: 3,214
iTrader: (35)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

The DNR does not use trees for signage such as this, a sign post would be used.

The DNR also does not use cap nails and the sign would be horizontal not vertical. So it looks like someone stole a DNR sign and placed it on this road.
CreativeFab is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > 4x4 Land Use > Rules, Regulations, Trail, and ORV Park Chat

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:52 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright 2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Page generated in 0.37873 seconds with 80 queries