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Old August 18th, 2009, 05:39 PM   #201
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WHITERHINO,
If you've spent the years and/or 1-10th the time I have in Lansing trying to work WITH the MDNR, only to understand that all your time/efforts were nothing but wasted, you also would have the same ''chip'' on your shoulder.

Please dont pre-judge me until until you've walked in my shoe's!
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Old August 18th, 2009, 06:28 PM   #202
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ok now let's continue to keep the thread as what it is for, about the tickets, not proving a point about weather or not you have a chip on your shoulder or not, who cares, get over it.

The issue is the tickets and who will be showing up to show support, I for one will be there.
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Old August 18th, 2009, 08:15 PM   #203
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WHITERHINO,
If you've spent the years and/or 1-10th the time I have in Lansing trying to work WITH the MDNR, only to understand that all your time/efforts were nothing but wasted, you also would have the same ''chip'' on your shoulder.

Please dont pre-judge me until until you've walked in my shoe's!
Bill,
For the record, I know more about you than you may realize. I've met you (you don't know me) and attended ORV advisory board meetings that you have spoken at. I'm good friends with people that know you quite well. I believe your heart is in the right place and know that you have been very dedicated to the sport.

With that said, I've learned in my life that always being on the muscle, even with people that are not your enemies doesn't help your cause.
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Old August 18th, 2009, 10:48 PM   #204
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Bill,
For the record, I know more about you than you may realize. I've met you (you don't know me) and attended ORV advisory board meetings that you have spoken at. I'm good friends with people that know you quite well. I believe your heart is in the right place and know that you have been very dedicated to the sport.

With that said, I've learned in my life that always being on the muscle, even with people that are not your enemies doesn't help your cause.
Very wisely spoken and good advice. When you go into a situation ready to fight, you will almost always find one.

Just to clarify, people keep talking about the DNR and these tickets were written on US Forest Service land by US forest service law enforcement officers. The hearing is in Federal District Court. The DNR has absolutely nothing to do with it.
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Old August 19th, 2009, 07:39 PM   #205
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Am I on the muscle with the MDNR?

You can call it what ever you choose to call it, however, really, for almost 3 years, the MDNR had myself and other high profile ORV instructors/user's into believeing that they were really going to work WITH us to fix the ORV safety education program, only to deceive and mis-guide all of us in the end and do things EXACTLY the way THEY intend too, even though its our position they are breaking State Statue.I did not start out ON the muscle with the MDNR, through the years, they have EARNED it.

NOW?
We must seek legal action against them. Pisses me off to no end that we could have looked for this legal action years ago, instead, they shadowed us with false intentions and unkept direction. Our kids and parents are the ones who will suffer in the end, all the while, the MDNR keeps wasting YOUR ORV safety dollars.

It is NEVER my intent to be on the muslce with ANYONE [ Especially my fellow ORV brothers/sisters ] but there comes a time in a mans life that he must stand-up for what he believes in and when it comes to the MDNR, I dont trust most of them any further than I can see them.

Now with that stated, there is not a single responsible ORV user in the world that I would not go out of my way for to help out however I could, and I hope you folks realize that my beef is NOT with you.
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Old August 19th, 2009, 08:10 PM   #206
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ok now let's continue to keep the thread as what it is for, about the tickets, not proving a point about weather or not you have a chip on your shoulder or not, who cares, get over it.

The issue is the tickets and who will be showing up to show support, I for one will be there.
Thanks Roger
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Old August 21st, 2009, 06:36 AM   #207
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I will do my best to show-up and show my support for this ticket hearing in Sept.

Best of Luck,
Bill
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Old August 21st, 2009, 02:49 PM   #208
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I wish you guys luck as well.
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Old August 29th, 2009, 12:05 PM   #209
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Our day in court is comming up soon.
THANKS AGAIN TO EVERYONE FOR YOUR SUPPORT
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Old September 5th, 2009, 12:35 PM   #210
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4 more days till court hope everyone show support for us and thankyou for all of your support so far
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Old September 8th, 2009, 09:36 PM   #211
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15hrs 24min until court
wish us luck
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Old September 8th, 2009, 10:08 PM   #212
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luck sent thanks guys
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Old September 9th, 2009, 05:27 AM   #213
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Good Luck to you guys today!
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Old September 9th, 2009, 06:08 AM   #214
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15hrs 24min until court
wish us luck
Good luck

Make sure you update us
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Old September 9th, 2009, 06:31 AM   #215
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Good luck
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Old September 9th, 2009, 08:25 AM   #216
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Good Luck today guys!

Please keep us updated.
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Old September 9th, 2009, 09:46 AM   #217
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3hrs and 14 min
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Old September 9th, 2009, 09:55 AM   #218
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Good luck today hope all goes well
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Old September 9th, 2009, 10:22 AM   #219
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Good luck today hope all goes well
thank you
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Old September 9th, 2009, 03:47 PM   #220
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we have another court date in early november
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