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Old May 22nd, 2009, 07:36 AM   #1
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Default Dimple dies

Thanks to Danza, here's a link to some inexpensive dimple dies on ebay, made in Texas.

Dimple Dies



Good for occasional use, as I don't think they're heat treated.
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Old May 22nd, 2009, 09:33 AM   #2
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Thanks to Danza, here's a link to some inexpensive dimple dies on ebay, made in Texas.

Dimple Dies



Good for occasional use, as I don't think they're heat treated.
yep, im gonna buy a set off ebay this weekend i think.
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Old May 22nd, 2009, 09:39 AM   #3
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they also make sweet ..um "shifter nobs" http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...2BSI%26otn%3D4
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Old May 22nd, 2009, 09:43 AM   #4
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they also make sweet ..um "shifter nobs" http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...2BSI%26otn%3D4
X100 8" long and 2" wide, "perfect for the harcore offroader" I think it replaces the entire shift lever, or it ought to...
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Old May 22nd, 2009, 09:44 AM   #5
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I read about those on pirate the other day. Lots of good info from there.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=786210

This sounds pretty good to me, I'm guessing for the home user, that should be quite a while.

"And one of my sources says 1018 is fine for several hundred holes before needing to be remachined."
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Old May 22nd, 2009, 10:06 AM   #6
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couldent you get these cryo treated to add a boatload of longevity out of them?
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Old May 22nd, 2009, 10:08 AM   #7
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This sounds pretty good to me, I'm guessing for the home user, that should be quite a while.

"And one of my sources says 1018 is fine for several hundred holes before needing to be remachined."
are you talking about the shifter or the dies?
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Old May 22nd, 2009, 11:33 AM   #8
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couldent you get these cryo treated to add a boatload of longevity out of them?
The problem is that it's still 1018 and not tool steel. You can't heat treat & cryo into something it isn't.

But, for the $140 you probably could buy a few sets and use them as-is before buying the real deal.
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Old May 22nd, 2009, 02:03 PM   #9
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well if brake rotors last 3x-5x longer in wear resistance from cryo it seems that dimple dies could benifit in the same way
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Old May 22nd, 2009, 02:13 PM   #10
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looks like they sell 4140 heat treated ones for $244.00

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Dimpl...motiveQ5fTools
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Old May 23rd, 2009, 12:41 AM   #11
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you could just have them case hardened or even nitrided. Makes them a ton harder on the surface, like up to 50-55 RC on the case hardening, maybe 60 Rc on the nitride?
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Old May 23rd, 2009, 05:51 AM   #12
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There's a lot of misconception about cryo treatment. There's also some snake oil people out there selling it. Cryo treating only works on a heat treated material where it takes some of the retained austenite and transforms it into martensite. This process also helps the grain structure a little bit. It can only be done on a heat treatable material as Johnnyj said. You would be wasting your money to cryo 1018. I have had several conversations with our heat treater about cryoing parts as we heat treat hundreds of parts per week. To do proper cryoing, a part should be cryoed within 4 hours after coming out of the heat treat quench. Otherwise, you get very little benefit from the process. In fact, they tell us we are wasting our money to do it afterwards. I specifically asked him about sending him my axle shafts & he said I would get no benefit on a used axle shaft.

Yes, you could case harden them (carburize) but they will change shape and surface finish in the process. For what they do, that probably wouldn't be a problem but there's no guarantee on that. When there's only $100 difference between the 1018 and the 4140, your end result cost wouldn't be worth it. I thought about nitriding them but I don't know the cost of that.

IMO, the best way to use them is as is and grease the hell out of them when you use them.

BTW, where is the info that cryoing brake rotors gives 3x the life?
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Old May 23rd, 2009, 07:39 AM   #13
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Check out the big brain on Jim today! Your supposed to save those five dollar words for work ya know. Do you think the 4140 would last much longer than the the 1018?
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Old May 23rd, 2009, 07:46 AM   #14
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and all that smart guy stuff before 7am on a saturday.
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Old May 23rd, 2009, 07:56 AM   #15
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Ya Jim, don't use up all your brain power by 9am. Save a bit for later I just read through the pirate thread and the info is basically the same as what Jim said (as expected) and it appears with proper prep and lube the dies will last a long, long, time. I may just get the cheaper ones and check them out. Really for the price I can get the full set and add a few extras of the more common sizes if they wear out in 5 years.
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Old May 23rd, 2009, 08:57 AM   #16
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A study in 1994 (6) showed that the reduction in retained
austenite was only part of the reason for the increased
wear resistance. This research confirmed the precipitation of fine
(eta) carbide particles. The deep cryogenic processing (soaking at
liquid nitrogen temperatures (-320oF)) as compared to what is
termed ‘cold’ treatment (soaking at dry ice temperatures (-120oF))
both reduced the amount of retained austenite. But the deep
cryogenic processing increased the wear resistance of the materials
tically, especially at high sliding speeds’. Figure 3 shows the
comparison of wear resistance vs. sliding speeds on both treated and
untreated samples.

http://www.cryoplus.com/pdf/icwptct.pdf

lots of good info showing cryotreating improved wear reisitance
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Old May 23rd, 2009, 09:03 AM   #17
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Bill heard a term, "Cryogenic Tempering," at a fleet maintenance trade show, and he wondered what it had to do with ambulances. He soon discovered that treating brake rotors using computer-controlled cryogenic temperatures at minus 300 degrees (F), increased the life of the rotors and the pads by 250-400%. The technology was unconditionally guaranteed or his money back...

http://www.300below.com/site/efrp.html

just one of many sites telling how cryo helped with wear resistance for brakes
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Old May 23rd, 2009, 09:19 AM   #18
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Also you cant heat treat a finished product, it has to be a unfinished product then machined.
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Old May 23rd, 2009, 11:03 AM   #19
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Also you cant heat treat a finished product, it has to be a unfinished product then machined.
yes you can, jmr dies are machined within .010" then heat treated and then finish machined. the light racing dies are completely machined and then heat treated and the end user has a part straight from heat treat, no post machining.

all I can say is it's about damn time someone came out with dimple dies for what they should be worth, not what they're worth to you over a 10 year period of use.

I'd spring for the chromoly ones, if you are pushing two pieces of the same material together they both are going to gouge equally and with one having a sharp corner I bet you will see some decient wear on the first fet parts. it's only a few bucks more and the chromoly will last a lot longer and not rust up as easily. keep them lubed up even when storing and they'll look new for years.
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Old June 1st, 2009, 07:33 AM   #20
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Got a 1 3/4" in the mail over the weekend-- 1018, looks pretty good. Tried it out last night and I'm happy with it, dimple has good shape and a tight edge--
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