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Old May 26th, 2009, 05:39 PM   #1
bripenn
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Default Driving with the windshield down...

I have seen a few questions on here about the legality of it...I have seen some bad advice in the way that it is legal with dot approved goggles. It is not avoid the ticket. I asked fellow troopers and then deceided to ask the traffic saftey guru in Lansing...this was her response:

A windshield is required while driving on the road. According to the
Michigan Vehicle Code, "A motor vehicle shall not be operated on the
public highways of this state unless it is equipped with a windshield of
sufficient dimensions to protect the driver and occupants from insects,
other airborne objects, and highway surface water and debris, when the
motor vehicle is moving forward."

You may view the full law here:
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(kra...e=mcl-257-708a


Also, "(1) A person shall not sell a new motor vehicle nor shall a new
motor vehicle be registered thereafter which is designed or used for the
purpose of transporting passengers for compensation unless that vehicle
is equipped with safety glass wherever glass is used in doors, windows,
and windshields.

(2) A person shall not sell a new motor vehicle nor shall a new motor
vehicle be registered thereafter unless that vehicle is equipped with
safety glass wherever glass is used in the windshield, doors, and
windows; nor shall any glass be replaced in the windshield, doors, and
windows of a motor vehicle unless the glass is safety glass as herein
defined.

(3) The term “safety glass” shall mean a product composed of glass,
so manufactured, fabricated, or treated as substantially to prevent
shattering and flying of the glass when struck or broken."

You may view the full law here:
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(kra...me=mcl-257-711

Hope this helps B*****,

Sgt. Jill M. McKelvey
Michigan State Police
Traffic Safety Division
Traffic Services Section
4000 Collins Road
Lansing, MI 48909
TX: 517-336-6121
Fax: 517-336-6259
McKelveyJM@michigan.gov
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Old May 26th, 2009, 05:43 PM   #2
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thanks for the info, although it will suite its purpose better here: http://www.greatlakes4x4.com/forumdisplay.php?f=38
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Old May 26th, 2009, 05:43 PM   #3
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That would make this car illegal to drive in Michigan... which it isn't.

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Old May 26th, 2009, 05:51 PM   #4
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if in not mistaken you the base model doesn't even come with head lights or any lights for that matter, and i know that's not legal. that is not a street car, its a race car, and a poor example for this discussion. just because they sell it to the public does not mean it is ready to be road legal.

also form the FAQ,
Q – Is there a windshield option?
A – Yes. It will be available soon.


Q – Is there a lighting kit available?
A – Yes. We can provide a kit including Headlights, Turn Signals, Brake Lights, and Horn.

Last edited by Bishop; May 26th, 2009 at 05:54 PM.
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Old May 26th, 2009, 06:34 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrifrocks2005 View Post
it's an excellent example for this discussion. unlike the trike/autocycle grey areas.

to press the motorcycle example,

as for what's equipped on the base model... there are often times enduro's that are sold as "base models" that are not equipped and/or legal for street use, but with higher option packs they area street legal.

and I'm sure one can still check the appropriate check boxes on certain cars' order forms that are otherwise street legal, and have them delivered as not-street legal.

being able to purchase a vehicle whether assembled, partially assembled, or supplied by an OEM, is not the same discussion as to whether or not it is able to be titled, and registered for street use. (certain kit cars are of course the exception)
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Old May 26th, 2009, 06:39 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bripenn View Post
I have seen a few questions on here about the legality of it...I have seen some bad advice in the way that it is legal with dot approved goggles. It is not avoid the ticket. I asked fellow troopers and then deceided to ask the traffic saftey guru in Lansing...this was her response:

A windshield is required while driving on the road. According to the
Michigan Vehicle Code, "A motor vehicle shall not be operated on the
public highways of this state unless it is equipped with a windshield of
sufficient dimensions to protect the driver and occupants from insects,
other airborne objects, and highway surface water and debris, when the
motor vehicle is moving forward."

You may view the full law here:
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(kra...e=mcl-257-708a


Also, "(1) A person shall not sell a new motor vehicle nor shall a new
motor vehicle be registered thereafter which is designed or used for the
purpose of transporting passengers for compensation unless that vehicle
is equipped with safety glass wherever glass is used in doors, windows,
and windshields.

(2) A person shall not sell a new motor vehicle nor shall a new motor
vehicle be registered thereafter unless that vehicle is equipped with
safety glass wherever glass is used in the windshield, doors, and
windows; nor shall any glass be replaced in the windshield, doors, and
windows of a motor vehicle unless the glass is safety glass as herein
defined.

(3) The term “safety glass” shall mean a product composed of glass,
so manufactured, fabricated, or treated as substantially to prevent
shattering and flying of the glass when struck or broken."

You may view the full law here:
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(kra...me=mcl-257-711

Hope this helps B*****,

Sgt. Jill M. McKelvey
Michigan State Police
Traffic Safety Division
Traffic Services Section
4000 Collins Road
Lansing, MI 48909
TX: 517-336-6121
Fax: 517-336-6259
McKelveyJM@michigan.gov


http://www.greatlakes4x4.com/showthread.php?t=136107

Thank God for the Highway Patrol.
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Old May 26th, 2009, 06:50 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyeBread View Post
it's an excellent example for this discussion. unlike the trike/autocycle grey areas.

to press the motorcycle example,

as for what's equipped on the base model... there are often times enduro's that are sold as "base models" that are not equipped and/or legal for street use, but with higher option packs they area street legal.

and I'm sure one can still check the appropriate check boxes on certain cars' order forms that are otherwise street legal, and have them delivered as not-street legal.

being able to purchase a vehicle whether assembled, partially assembled, or supplied by an OEM, is not the same discussion as to whether or not it is able to be titled, and registered for street use. (certain kit cars are of course the exception)
i agree with you, but by simply posting a picture or a production car does not justify it being legal to drive on the road.

thats like posting an pic or an enduro before it has the kit on it and saying the it is legal to drive a bike with no lights just because they make one.
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Old May 26th, 2009, 08:54 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkeyevil View Post
That would make this car illegal to drive in Michigan... which it isn't.

Atom's are NOT street legal, unless titled as an assembled roadster. And in Michigan, it'd have to pass TR-54, which is ain't going to do without a windshield.

The cars cannot be sold by a manufacturer/importer, as they do not meet a myriad of FMVSS standards.


I don't know what the legalities are of registering an assembled vehicle in one state, then bringing it to another.

Basically, in MI, its no different than a dune buggy. Maybe you could get away with it, if you got an officer to overlook things, but it is not legal.
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Old May 26th, 2009, 09:41 PM   #9
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Anything's legal if you don't get caught....
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Old May 26th, 2009, 10:23 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post
Atom's are NOT street legal, unless titled as an assembled roadster. And in Michigan, it'd have to pass TR-54, which is ain't going to do without a windshield.

The cars cannot be sold by a manufacturer/importer, as they do not meet a myriad of FMVSS standards.


I don't know what the legalities are of registering an assembled vehicle in one state, then bringing it to another.

Basically, in MI, its no different than a dune buggy. Maybe you could get away with it, if you got an officer to overlook things, but it is not legal.
Nope your completely wrong; I'm driving mine home right now, c ya.
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Old May 27th, 2009, 08:36 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkeyevil View Post
Nope your completely wrong; I'm driving mine home right now, c ya.
You should have bought a Super 7, instead.


....Now back to cutting out the crooked and not completely welded parts of my 'sport cage' and 'stage II bumper' in this TJ I just bought.
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Old May 27th, 2009, 08:59 AM   #12
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Hope this helps B*****,

geez, I didn't figure they'd throw a byatch out in a letter.
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Old June 3rd, 2009, 07:28 PM   #13
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"A motor vehicle shall not be operated on the
public highways of this state unless it is equipped with a windshield of
sufficient dimensions to protect the driver and occupants from insects,
other airborne objects, and highway surface water and debris, when the
motor vehicle is moving forward."

A Jeep has a windshield that follows the criteria stated above. It doesn't say the windshield has to be in an upright position. The letter of the law has been followed just by having the proper windshield installed on the vehicle.
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Old June 3rd, 2009, 07:45 PM   #14
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just move in reverse
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Old June 4th, 2009, 01:08 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post
You should have bought a Super 7, instead.


....Now back to cutting out the crooked and not completely welded parts of my 'sport cage' and 'stage II bumper' in this TJ I just bought.
i think i just peed myself
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