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Old May 23rd, 2009, 02:12 AM   #41
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What is the Story Behind These Flags? Why is the Confederate Flag Often Referred to as The Southern Cross By Supporters? Why is called a flag of hate by others? Why is it such a big deal, especially in South Carolina, where the NAACP is holding a boycott of state tourism? What is the deeper meaning behind the Confederate flag and can there be a compromise and an objective view to this hotbutton issue? What does the Bible say about this issue? The flag on the left is the most-known version of the Confederate battle flag; the one on the right is the St. Andrew's cross, the Scottish battle flag.
There are obvious similarities between the two flags. The St. Andrew's cross is named as such because St. Andrew felt that he was not worthy of being crucified the way Jesus was, so he was crucified in the direction shown in the flags above.

Why the Southern Cross? The deep South have been known as the Bible belt because of its religious conservatism. By the time the Confederate Battle flag was made, Jefferson Davis was President and the Bible Belt was now the States of the Confederacy. They probably formed the Confederacy as a nation under God and the flag makers knew of the St. Andrew's Cross, it was called the Southern Cross. Southerners have defended their "lifestyle", including slavery citing religious reasons among others. (If one could give me the history as to why the Battle flag was known as the Southern Cross, email me at gngerald@yahoo.com). This website is not as much about the history of the Confederate flag as it is about the Confederate flag controversy in South Carolina from a biblical standpoint. Historically speaking, from what we know since the 1860s, there wasn't a compromise then, and the compromise won't solve anything now. Only time will tell. Hopefully I will be proven wrong.

The sad thing about what is going on these recent days concerning the Confederate Flag is anything but godly. Many who feel the flag should be left alone on top of the Statehouse or in the Confederate Memorial because of heritage. Sadly, not everyone feels the same way as these people do has demonstrated it that way. Nor does everyone agree. Many are boycotting because they feel it is a racist symbol, a symbol of slavery. This is understandable:
By around 1862 or so, the South seceeded from the Union, which started the Civil War. At that time, slavery was the center issue of all of this, if not one of the biggest issues. Black people were treated as nothing more than property. They were by law not allowed to read, write, or even marry. If the South were to win the Civil War, black people were to remain slaves for years, if not decades to come.

On the other hand, there is the issue of treason and sovereignty. Brother fought against brother. The events that led up to the Civil War and afterward did lead up to countless lives being lost and the breakup of families and thus a nation. It took four years for America to become a united, United States. Many people do believe that the flag should stay up because of the numerous lives, both black and white, lost. There is also the issue of the Native Americans. They were in support of the Confederacy not because of slavery, but because of the threat against their livelihood by the United States government, who also committed many racist atrocities. There is also true accounts of racism by the Union army against blacks as well. Many racist actions have been committed by those in the North as well as the South throughout US history. Such examples include Plessy vs. Ferguson, the displacements of many Native Americans, the Klan's terror even in the Midwest, the race riots, the One-Drop Rules and segregation by law.

This is not the opinion of one or of many. These are just objective historical facts. Sadly, not not everyone who is for the flag staying atop the Statehouse want to stay up for those reasons. There are many hate groups and many older people who use the flag for their own selfish reasons. Many of these include the Klan, many of whom were former Confederate soldiers. They are the reason for the controversy. What made it even worse was that the flag was put up on the Statehouse grounds in 1962. The controversy was that that move may have either been a symbolic "slap in the face" to those who were part of the Civil Rights Movement. The other view is that the Confederacy was enacted a century before. To be fair, I believe that not all who believe that the flag is a part of their legacy and heritage are racists.

The real answer really starts within us. In a democracy such as this one, we must be the ones who will held accountable for all of this. Togetherness is the answer: United we stand, divided we fall. We all need to learn the history of this flag. Ignorance may be bliss, but it sure isn't pretty. The Bible teaches us to love our neighbor, and our enemies. No state flag, or any other flag is worth any amount of divisiveness. Ephesians 4:26-28 writes, " Be angry, and sin not, ...nor give place to the devil." We have seen much unrighteous anger, and probably bitterness, from some on both sides of the issue. This kind of divisiveness is not of God for the whole controversy has given place to the devil.. Burning a flag is not the answer. In fact, it was needless and disrespectful . Disrespect does not breed respect. Nor does name calling, protesting the protest, or ;boycotting. It has even been proven that boycotting isn't going to change people.

We need healing. We need to learn not to tolerate, but to forgive. Let's not repeat what happened hundreds of years ago. Let's move forward. For if we all fail to learn about our history, we are doomed to repeat it.

Last edited by llxRanger; May 23rd, 2009 at 02:15 AM.
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Old May 23rd, 2009, 02:13 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Spork View Post
the question was asked "what does it mean in the north?". That is what i believe the confederate flag represents. If "I" wanted to display a racist message i would burn crosses in my yard.

This is not the right argument to have on a board dominated by suburban wannabe country boys. Yeah if your flying the confederate flag in yspi. you are probably a dumbass.

spend some time somewhere that doesnt have seven elevens, stoplights or burger king

Now you are a dummy a true racies would burn a cross in the Naggars yard\

I used to fly one being as my family is from the south But mine said right on it FOR HARITAGE NOT HATE or FOR PRIDE NOT PREJUDICE

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Old May 23rd, 2009, 02:21 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by llxRanger View Post
WOW..
So I love how people know no understanding about what the Confederate flag means. Everyone thinks its Racism, or Being a redneck.. The confederate flag is a Heritage. And thats the way it will always be. Its nothing to do with racism in my case it has to do with me being from the south. Im proud of where I'm from. I know the history behind the flag. Its heritage. Not hate. Do some research please. I wasn't asking if it was illegal because it was a Rebel flag. I was simply asking if it was illegal to fly any flag behind a vehicle.

People who say shit like being a toothless hillbilly and shit makes me want to fly that mother fucker 30 feet higher....
they are saying the kids from Michigan that have never been farther south than Columbus, Ohio and have no idea what it really stands for but still hide are toothless hillbillies... not people from the south. Take it how you will though.
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Old May 23rd, 2009, 02:48 AM   #44
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I'm toothless but I don't fly the Confederate flag. Am I breaking the law?
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Old May 23rd, 2009, 05:45 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by llxRanger View Post
What is the Story Behind These Flags? Why is the Confederate Flag Often Referred to as The Southern Cross By Supporters? Why is called a flag of hate by others? Why is it such a big deal, especially in South Carolina, where the NAACP is holding a boycott of state tourism? What is the deeper meaning behind the Confederate flag and can there be a compromise and an objective view to this hotbutton issue? What does the Bible say about this issue? The flag on the left is the most-known version of the Confederate battle flag; the one on the right is the St. Andrew's cross, the Scottish battle flag.
There are obvious similarities between the two flags. The St. Andrew's cross is named as such because St. Andrew felt that he was not worthy of being crucified the way Jesus was, so he was crucified in the direction shown in the flags above.

Why the Southern Cross? The deep South have been known as the Bible belt because of its religious conservatism. By the time the Confederate Battle flag was made, Jefferson Davis was President and the Bible Belt was now the States of the Confederacy. They probably formed the Confederacy as a nation under God and the flag makers knew of the St. Andrew's Cross, it was called the Southern Cross. Southerners have defended their "lifestyle", including slavery citing religious reasons among others. (If one could give me the history as to why the Battle flag was known as the Southern Cross, email me at gngerald@yahoo.com). This website is not as much about the history of the Confederate flag as it is about the Confederate flag controversy in South Carolina from a biblical standpoint. Historically speaking, from what we know since the 1860s, there wasn't a compromise then, and the compromise won't solve anything now. Only time will tell. Hopefully I will be proven wrong.

The sad thing about what is going on these recent days concerning the Confederate Flag is anything but godly. Many who feel the flag should be left alone on top of the Statehouse or in the Confederate Memorial because of heritage. Sadly, not everyone feels the same way as these people do has demonstrated it that way. Nor does everyone agree. Many are boycotting because they feel it is a racist symbol, a symbol of slavery. This is understandable:
By around 1862 or so, the South seceeded from the Union, which started the Civil War. At that time, slavery was the center issue of all of this, if not one of the biggest issues. Black people were treated as nothing more than property. They were by law not allowed to read, write, or even marry. If the South were to win the Civil War, black people were to remain slaves for years, if not decades to come.

On the other hand, there is the issue of treason and sovereignty. Brother fought against brother. The events that led up to the Civil War and afterward did lead up to countless lives being lost and the breakup of families and thus a nation. It took four years for America to become a united, United States. Many people do believe that the flag should stay up because of the numerous lives, both black and white, lost. There is also the issue of the Native Americans. They were in support of the Confederacy not because of slavery, but because of the threat against their livelihood by the United States government, who also committed many racist atrocities. There is also true accounts of racism by the Union army against blacks as well. Many racist actions have been committed by those in the North as well as the South throughout US history. Such examples include Plessy vs. Ferguson, the displacements of many Native Americans, the Klan's terror even in the Midwest, the race riots, the One-Drop Rules and segregation by law.

This is not the opinion of one or of many. These are just objective historical facts. Sadly, not not everyone who is for the flag staying atop the Statehouse want to stay up for those reasons. There are many hate groups and many older people who use the flag for their own selfish reasons. Many of these include the Klan, many of whom were former Confederate soldiers. They are the reason for the controversy. What made it even worse was that the flag was put up on the Statehouse grounds in 1962. The controversy was that that move may have either been a symbolic "slap in the face" to those who were part of the Civil Rights Movement. The other view is that the Confederacy was enacted a century before. To be fair, I believe that not all who believe that the flag is a part of their legacy and heritage are racists.

The real answer really starts within us. In a democracy such as this one, we must be the ones who will held accountable for all of this. Togetherness is the answer: United we stand, divided we fall. We all need to learn the history of this flag. Ignorance may be bliss, but it sure isn't pretty. The Bible teaches us to love our neighbor, and our enemies. No state flag, or any other flag is worth any amount of divisiveness. Ephesians 4:26-28 writes, " Be angry, and sin not, ...nor give place to the devil." We have seen much unrighteous anger, and probably bitterness, from some on both sides of the issue. This kind of divisiveness is not of God for the whole controversy has given place to the devil.. Burning a flag is not the answer. In fact, it was needless and disrespectful . Disrespect does not breed respect. Nor does name calling, protesting the protest, or ;boycotting. It has even been proven that boycotting isn't going to change people.

We need healing. We need to learn not to tolerate, but to forgive. Let's not repeat what happened hundreds of years ago. Let's move forward. For if we all fail to learn about our history, we are doomed to repeat it.
Great article....I guess. All it really states is that there is a "controversy"

Oh, and by the way, the United States is not a Democracy. It is a Republic

....and to the Republic, for which it stands. One nation, under god...."
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Old May 23rd, 2009, 06:52 AM   #46
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Are you sure it doesn't mean " Fetch my slippers or go back to Africa"?
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Old May 23rd, 2009, 08:41 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by llxRanger View Post
WOW..
So I love how people know no understanding about what the Confederate flag means. Everyone thinks its Racism, or Being a redneck.. The confederate flag is a Heritage. And thats the way it will always be. Its nothing to do with racism in my case it has to do with me being from the south. Im proud of where I'm from. I know the history behind the flag. Its heritage. Not hate. Do some research please. I wasn't asking if it was illegal because it was a Rebel flag. I was simply asking if it was illegal to fly any flag behind a vehicle.

People who say shit like being a toothless hillbilly and shit makes me want to fly that mother fucker 30 feet higher....
No, it is not illegal to fly a flag from a vehicle, people do it all the time.



As for being proud to be from the south, good. By why the Battle Flag? Why not the Official Flag of the Confederacy?

Although less well known than the "Confederate Battle Flags", the Stars and Bars was used as the official flag of the Confederacy from March 1861 to May of 1863. The seven stars represent the original Confederate States;

South Carolina (December 20, 1860)
Mississippi(January 9, 1861)
Florida (January 10,1861)
Alabama (January 11, 1861)
Georgia (January 19, 1861)
Louisiana (January 26, 1861)
and Texas (February 1, 1861)
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Old May 23rd, 2009, 08:44 AM   #48
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llxRanger,

You are missing the point, it isnt about what you know about the flag, it is how others portray it.

If I were to display a



people would automatically assume im a Nazi punk however until the Nazis used this symbol, the swastika was used by many cultures throughout the past 3,000 years to represent life, sun, power, strength, and good luck. It has been used for a symbol of good luck through the days of Troy and i believe originated in Egypt.

However now when people see it, they see a hate symbol because of Hitler. The South was pro slavery and used the confederate flag. KKK and many other racist organizations have also incorporated that symbol into their banners and advertisements.

A person can show Southern Pride without using a confederate flag. Fly a flag from the state your from, marry your sister, herd sheep. I can poke fun at the South because I am from the South. :)

Later
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Old May 23rd, 2009, 08:54 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by FlatFender View Post
I cant see why that would be illegal. However, I will say that after living in the south for a year now, that the flag has a completely different meaning down here, than it does up north. All the little redneck idiots up north flying the flag have no idea what it means.
X2. It sucks cause of those jackasses when ever I have one out(dads side of the family is from down south) I get asked all the time "You into white power?" or someone will yell it driving by. Shit pisses me off
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Old May 23rd, 2009, 09:33 AM   #50
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Old May 23rd, 2009, 10:03 AM   #51
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See my earlier post. Overlooked? Yes. Illegal? Yes.

Now, seeing how this thread has turned into a debate on the Stars and Bars, I'll offer my perspective. I have studied the Civil War and visited all of the major battlefields of that war and several places where "minor" skirmishes took place.

The southern states have much to be proud of. They fought with honor, they fought against great odds, they stood together on the principle of states rights with slavery being only ONE issue of those rights. They did not want war, but they held so firmly to their beliefs of freedom, states rights and a SMALL federal government that when backed into a corner by the Lincoln administration war it was.

People try to re-write history and it isn't going to work. The soldiers of the Confederacy were proud AMERICANS and fought for a belief. Lastly, when it was time to HONORABLY surrender, General Lee did so. This war could have lasted 100 years or more had he not done so. These were honorable people who fought for an honorable cause, in an honorable manner. That's how I view the Confederate battle flag.

If you fly the flag for any other reason, you don't understand history and you may be doing it for the wrong reason.

Further, you may have noted recently many vehicles with the flag of South Carolina on the front of their vehicles in the form of a license plate.
Wonder why? Look at history and recent events. First, the Civil War began with the attack on Fort Sumter near Charleston, South Carolina. South Carolina was the first state to vote to secede from the union in 1861. They were one of the original 13 colonies to declare independence from England. Recently, they have been the only state to resist taking any of Obama's "stimulus" money and have been one of several states to again assert states rights by re-iterating the tenth amendment. South Carolina along with states like Montana, Texas and a few other "red" states have once again started a ball rolling. I hope and pray that the ball keeps rolling and once again this country returns to the origins from whence it came.
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Old May 23rd, 2009, 10:16 AM   #52
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could be said any better!
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Old May 23rd, 2009, 10:23 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Hombre View Post
See my earlier post. Overlooked? Yes. Illegal? Yes.

Now, seeing how this thread has turned into a debate on the Stars and Bars, I'll offer my perspective. I have studied the Civil War and visited all of the major battlefields of that war and several places where "minor" skirmishes took place.

The southern states have much to be proud of. They fought with honor, they fought against great odds, they stood together on the principle of states rights with slavery being only ONE issue of those rights. They did not want war, but they held so firmly to their beliefs of freedom, states rights and a SMALL federal government that when backed into a corner by the Lincoln administration war it was.

People try to re-write history and it isn't going to work. The soldiers of the Confederacy were proud AMERICANS and fought for a belief. Lastly, when it was time to HONORABLY surrender, General Lee did so. This war could have lasted 100 years or more had he not done so. These were honorable people who fought for an honorable cause, in an honorable manner. That's how I view the Confederate battle flag.

If you fly the flag for any other reason, you don't understand history and you may be doing it for the wrong reason.

Further, you may have noted recently many vehicles with the flag of South Carolina on the front of their vehicles in the form of a license plate.
Wonder why? Look at history and recent events. First, the Civil War began with the attack on Fort Sumter near Charleston, South Carolina. South Carolina was the first state to vote to secede from the union in 1861. They were one of the original 13 colonies to declare independence from England. Recently, they have been the only state to resist taking any of Obama's "stimulus" money and have been one of several states to again assert states rights by re-iterating the tenth amendment. South Carolina along with states like Montana, Texas and a few other "red" states have once again started a ball rolling. I hope and pray that the ball keeps rolling and once again this country returns to the origins from whence it came.

I was humming the Star Spangle Banner while I read that.....
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Old May 23rd, 2009, 10:33 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by biohazardbill View Post
llxRanger,

You are missing the point, it isnt about what you know about the flag, it is how others portray it.

If I were to display a



people would automatically assume im a Nazi punk however until the Nazis used this symbol, the swastika was used by many cultures throughout the past 3,000 years to represent life, sun, power, strength, and good luck. It has been used for a symbol of good luck through the days of Troy and i believe originated in Egypt.

However now when people see it, they see a hate symbol because of Hitler. The South was pro slavery and used the confederate flag. KKK and many other racist organizations have also incorporated that symbol into their banners and advertisements.

A person can show Southern Pride without using a confederate flag. Fly a flag from the state your from, marry your sister, herd sheep. I can poke fun at the South because I am from the South. :)

Later

BINGO We have a winner
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Old May 23rd, 2009, 10:41 AM   #55
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I've been driving around town with a Spongebob Squarepants flag flying from truck.
X 2, I also sport the Spongebob air freshener.
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Old May 23rd, 2009, 10:49 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by biohazardbill View Post
llxRanger,

You are missing the point, it isnt about what you know about the flag, it is how others portray it.

If I were to display a



people would automatically assume im a Nazi punk however until the Nazis used this symbol, the swastika was used by many cultures throughout the past 3,000 years to represent life, sun, power, strength, and good luck. It has been used for a symbol of good luck through the days of Troy and i believe originated in Egypt.

However now when people see it, they see a hate symbol because of Hitler. The South was pro slavery and used the confederate flag. KKK and many other racist organizations have also incorporated that symbol into their banners and advertisements.

A person can show Southern Pride without using a confederate flag. Fly a flag from the state your from, marry your sister, herd sheep. I can poke fun at the South because I am from the South. :)

Later
You are wrong. The "south" was not necessarily "pro slavery." In fact, if you do some research you will see that the moral issue of slavery was already being debated in several of the states who eventually seceded from the union (the Confederate States). Many speculate that eventually, those states would have eliminated slavery on their own but at a pace different than that of the federal government. To put forth the notion that the southern states were "bad" and "pro slavery" is wrong. The facts are, those people were very moral, very religious and fiercely loyal to their STATES first and then the federal government.

To paint the entire south with the broad brush you have painted it with is historically inaccurate and is consistant with the liberal, revisionist version of history.

In contrast, to assert or infer that the north was morally superior and "anti-slavery" is also incorrect. Many peoples in the north wanted to own slaves and in fact several citizens were prosecuted in the northern states for owning slaves, selling slaves, transporting slaves and generally taking part in the slave trade. Also, when you study one of the more popular plans of the day on what to do with the "freed slaves", you will find that those weren't so morally correct either. One of the popular plans for the "freed slaves" at the time was to send them back to Africa which is how the country of Nigeria on the African continent was formed. Further, that "plan" is one that Lincoln gave serious consideration to and was much in favor of.

Conflicts such as the Civil War are far too complex to portray in the simple terms that many brainwashing liberals attempt to do. Both sides in the Civil War had moral beliefs they were willing to go to war over. For the north, most didn't go to war fighting to end slavery. They went to war to preserve the Union and were angered by the secession of the southern states.
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Old May 23rd, 2009, 10:59 AM   #57
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I'm sure I'm not the only one who has seen the big lifted red f-150 driving around the pontiac area with "WHITE PRIDE STILL EXISTS" on the back window. And when I say it's on the back window, I mean it is taking up the complete back window.
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Old May 23rd, 2009, 12:05 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Hombre View Post
You are wrong. The "south" was not necessarily "pro slavery." In fact, if you do some research you will see that the moral issue of slavery was already being debated in several of the states who eventually seceded from the union (the Confederate States). Many speculate that eventually, those states would have eliminated slavery on their own but at a pace different than that of the federal government. To put forth the notion that the southern states were "bad" and "pro slavery" is wrong. The facts are, those people were very moral, very religious and fiercely loyal to their STATES first and then the federal government.

To paint the entire south with the broad brush you have painted it with is historically inaccurate and is consistant with the liberal, revisionist version of history.

In contrast, to assert or infer that the north was morally superior and "anti-slavery" is also incorrect. Many peoples in the north wanted to own slaves and in fact several citizens were prosecuted in the northern states for owning slaves, selling slaves, transporting slaves and generally taking part in the slave trade. Also, when you study one of the more popular plans of the day on what to do with the "freed slaves", you will find that those weren't so morally correct either. One of the popular plans for the "freed slaves" at the time was to send them back to Africa which is how the country of Nigeria on the African continent was formed. Further, that "plan" is one that Lincoln gave serious consideration to and was much in favor of.

Conflicts such as the Civil War are far too complex to portray in the simple terms that many brainwashing liberals attempt to do. Both sides in the Civil War had moral beliefs they were willing to go to war over. For the north, most didn't go to war fighting to end slavery. They went to war to preserve the Union and were angered by the secession of the southern states.
X eleventyjillion.

btw, the Sons of Confederate Veterans (SCV) files - and "won" - a lawsuit against the Klan in IL (well, at least one part of it) for damages arising from their misuse of a part of southron heritage in their activities. Granted, it's just one chapter, local, or whatever they go by and they didn't pay but it's the point that counts. The official keepers of Confederate heritage are on record opposing the "hate symbol" use of the battle flag.

The reason the SCV opposes this is because moron use of the symbols results in attacks on our heritage like the sandblasting of "C.S.A." from tombstones and renaming of streets, etc... from war heroes names to MLK, Rose Parks, etc... in the name of political correctness.
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Old May 23rd, 2009, 03:17 PM   #59
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theres 2 kids around town here who flag them on the back of there trucks never been pulled over.
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Old May 23rd, 2009, 04:28 PM   #60
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Summary

Confederate flag south: pride, honor, states rights, and the occasional trip up with the KKK using the symbol

Confederate flag north: pride (in your sweet mud truck), dilusion, identification with a non-existant ideal, and the occasional spotting of the flag on someone's truck who is from the South.
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