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Old June 13th, 2009, 05:13 PM   #461
disorder xj
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A bunch of these guy's will be giving testimony some day as to how they found God on Great Lakes 4x4....

Sova will lead the pack.....
Ok you got me . I'm a muslim now .
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Old June 13th, 2009, 10:39 PM   #462
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Ok you got me . I'm a muslim now .
Thats a start........
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Old June 14th, 2009, 10:01 PM   #463
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Ok you got me . I'm a muslim now .
Wrong god i mean dog, that one died and stayed dead
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Old June 14th, 2009, 10:33 PM   #464
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No. Thinking you know enough about the universe to rule something out for lack of evidence in idiotic.

Lack of evidence of existence does not prove non-existence.
Brewmenn,

I would tend to agree with him that believing something without any good evidence is foolish. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If you told me your name is Bruce, I could accept that without any evidence, it's not that extraordinary.

Also, I'm not sure, I didn't go back and look, but I'm not sure if he is trying to positively state that a god doesn't exist, just that he has a lack of belief in a god. Lack of evidence does justify a lack of belief, but no it doesn't prove non-existence.
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Old June 15th, 2009, 09:20 AM   #465
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Brewmenn,

I would tend to agree with him that believing something without any good evidence is foolish. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If you told me your name is Bruce, I could accept that without any evidence, it's not that extraordinary.

Also, I'm not sure, I didn't go back and look, but I'm not sure if he is trying to positively state that a god doesn't exist, just that he has a lack of belief in a god. Lack of evidence does justify a lack of belief, but no it doesn't prove non-existence.
I want a DNA test, your really not mikesova......lol
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Old June 15th, 2009, 02:50 PM   #466
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I want a DNA test, your really not mikesova......lol
why? I didn't say anything there that is contradictory to anything I've said before. I've never positively stated "there is no god". I merely lack a belief in a god. There is a difference.
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Old June 15th, 2009, 08:55 PM   #467
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why? I didn't say anything there that is contradictory to anything I've said before. I've never positively stated "there is no god". I merely lack a belief in a god. There is a difference.

If you say so.......
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Old June 16th, 2009, 06:16 AM   #468
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If you say so.......
you don't understand the difference, one is a positive statement about what belief, but you can't disprove the existence of something that doesn't ever manifest. so why try? ...the burden of proof is on the believer. Until evidence is shown otherwise, a lack of belief is the default position.
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Old June 16th, 2009, 12:21 PM   #469
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you don't understand the difference, one is a positive statement about what belief, but you can't disprove the existence of something that doesn't ever manifest. so why try? ...the burden of proof is on the believer. Until evidence is shown otherwise, a lack of belief is the default position.
Well until you and other nonbelievers have faith to believe that He is who He said He is, you will not see the evidence that you are asking for. You cannot understand the things of God until you are born again and it will be the Holy Spirit that will manifest itself to show you the truth.
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Old June 16th, 2009, 01:51 PM   #470
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Well until you and other nonbelievers have faith to believe that He is who He said He is, you will not see the evidence that you are asking for. You cannot understand the things of God until you are born again and it will be the Holy Spirit that will manifest itself to show you the truth.
He hasn't ever said anything to me. If "he" did, I would find that to be convincing evidence that "he" exists.

P.S. Faith is stupid to me. It is believing something without having any evidence to support it. I find it completely hilarious that someone can be completely rational and logical about things except for their religious beliefs. Is there anything else in the world that you would leave up to faith other than the belief in your god and his/her magical powers?

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Old June 16th, 2009, 03:22 PM   #471
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you don't understand the difference, one is a positive statement about what belief, but you can't disprove the existence of something that doesn't ever manifest. so why try? ...the burden of proof is on the believer. Until evidence is shown otherwise, a lack of belief is the default position.

What proof do we have of anything 100 years ago or longer.....We have already established the Bible is not a good source, so any other writings are also not a good source.......What else is there??????????

How do you prove Attilla the hun, Eric the red, Columbus, Lief Erickson, or anything else or anybody without old writings.....

You have the choice to believe what you read or not to, but the writings of and about a certain time carry the same weight.
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Old June 16th, 2009, 03:36 PM   #472
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it will be the Holy Spirit that will manifest itself to show you the truth.
Still waiting for that manifestation.
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Old June 16th, 2009, 03:37 PM   #473
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You have the choice to believe what you read or not to, but the writings of and about a certain time carry the same weight.
no.
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Old June 16th, 2009, 03:41 PM   #474
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Still waiting for that manifestation.

Hold your breath.....
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Old June 16th, 2009, 03:42 PM   #475
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no.
I know the Bible carrys more weight, it was just for the sake of a debate....

Last edited by Mr Toes - R.I.P.; June 16th, 2009 at 08:08 PM.
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Old June 16th, 2009, 04:05 PM   #476
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What proof do we have of anything 100 years ago or longer.....We have already established the Bible is not a good source, so any other writings are also not a good source.......What else is there??????????

How do you prove Attilla the hun, Eric the red, Columbus, Lief Erickson, or anything else or anybody without old writings.....

You have the choice to believe what you read or not to, but the writings of and about a certain time carry the same weight.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. None of those people were claimed to rise from the dead or walk on water, so it's much easier to accept their existence than the Jesus character's claims of being supernatural. I accept that Atilla the Hun, Erik the Red, etc. existed based on multiple sources of evidence. I believe this on a conditional basis, if new evidence came to light showing that the person was a fictional character, I'd have to reconsider my belief. The bible as a historical document MAY be OK proof of the existence of a historical Jesus, but proof of the supernatural...no way.

Writings of a certain time carry the same weight? Does that mean that all ancient religious texts, like the Koran or are as equally valid as you believe the Bible is? I understand that the example I give (Koran) isn't quite as old as the Bible.
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Old June 16th, 2009, 04:38 PM   #477
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Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. None of those people were claimed to rise from the dead or walk on water, so it's much easier to accept their existence than the Jesus character's claims of being supernatural. I accept that Atilla the Hun, Erik the Red, etc. existed based on multiple sources of evidence. I believe this on a conditional basis, if new evidence came to light showing that the person was a fictional character, I'd have to reconsider my belief. The bible as a historical document MAY be OK proof of the existence of a historical Jesus, but proof of the supernatural...no way.

Writings of a certain time carry the same weight? Does that mean that all ancient religious texts, like the Koran or are as equally valid as you believe the Bible is? I understand that the example I give (Koran) isn't quite as old as the Bible.
Crazy that a bunch of people would lie about the same thing over and over and over again. Also that they would be such good lies that they are still being talked about 2000 years later. . . .
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Old June 16th, 2009, 06:21 PM   #478
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Crazy that a bunch of people would lie about the same thing over and over and over again. Also that they would be such good lies that they are still being talked about 2000 years later. . . .
Ok, so which one are you talking about? Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity, Wicca ? How long have they been around? How long have those "lies" been passed on?

P.S. your statement is a logical fallacy:

An argumentum ad populum (Latin: "appeal to the people"), in logic, is a fallacious argument that concludes a proposition to be true because many or all people believe it; it alleges, "If many believe so, it is so."

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Old June 16th, 2009, 06:31 PM   #479
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He hasn't ever said anything to me. If "he" did, I would find that to be convincing evidence that "he" exists.

P.S. Faith is stupid to me. It is believing something without having any evidence to support it. I find it completely hilarious that someone can be completely rational and logical about things except for their religious beliefs. Is there anything else in the world that you would leave up to faith other than the belief in your god and his/her magical powers?
So if He was to say something to you would you recognize His voice? Jesus spoke in parables so that it would be difficult to understand Him. You would ask for Him to help you understand. He knows if you truly want to know or are only asking to make a point. He Knows your heart.

So if all this is so hilarious how about the thought of what Mohamaid says, follow him and get 72 virgins, or follow him or get your head cut off. Budda says live a certain way and when you die you comw back as a frog, bug, bird or a higher being.

What is more hilarious? ask yourself that.
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Old June 16th, 2009, 06:33 PM   #480
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Jesus spoke in parables so that it would be difficult to understand Him.
You think that makes perfect sense, don't you.
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