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Old June 4th, 2009, 08:18 AM   #381
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You'd think a Creator might at least have the ability to bark up some good solid evidence.


No you just need what they call "Blind Faith"
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Old June 4th, 2009, 09:17 AM   #382
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Take, for example, the works of Philo Judaeus who's birth occurred in 20 B.C.E. and died 50 C.E. He lived as the greatest Jewish-Hellenistic philosopher and historian of the time and lived in the area of Jerusalem during the alleged life of Jesus. He wrote detailed accounts of the Jewish events that occurred in the surrounding area. Yet not once, in all of his volumes of writings, do we read a single account of a Jesus "the Christ." Nor do we find any mention of Jesus in Seneca's (4? B.C.E. - 65 C.E.) writings, nor from the historian Pliny the Elder (23? - 79 C.E.).

If, indeed, such a well known Jesus existed, as the gospels allege, does any reader here think it reasonable that, at the very least, the fame of Jesus would not have reached the ears of one of these men?

Amazingly, we have not one Jewish, Greek, or Roman writer, even those who lived in the Middle East, much less anywhere else on the earth, who ever mention him during his supposed life time. This appears quite extraordinary, and you will find few Christian apologists who dare mention this embarrassing fact.

To illustrate this extraordinary absence of Jesus Christ literature, just imagine going through nineteenth century literature looking for an Abraham Lincoln but unable to find a single mention of him in any writing on earth until the 20th century. Yet straight-faced Christian apologists and historians want you to buy a factual Jesus out of a dearth void of evidence, and rely on nothing but hearsay written well after his purported life. Considering that most Christians believe that Jesus lived as God on earth, the Almighty gives an embarrassing example for explaining his existence. You'd think a Creator might at least have the ability to bark up some good solid evidence.

We can't take you seriously because we don't believe any of the people you use as reference actually existed. All you have is some old book or old writing.

According to you that is not significant evidence to prove that someone in fact existed....

Therefore any and all historical writings relevant to the existance, or actions of any person are irrelevant.....
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Old June 4th, 2009, 09:19 AM   #383
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You'd think a Creator might at least have the ability to bark up some good solid evidence.


No you just need what they call "Blind Faith"


Present evidence, other than an old book, old scroll, or old writing, that any historical figure exists.
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Old June 4th, 2009, 10:39 AM   #384
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In the book The Jesus Puzzle, the biblical scholar, Earl Doherty, presents not only a challenge to the existence of an historical Jesus but reveals that early pre-Gospel Christian documents show that the concept of Jesus sprang from non-historical spiritual beliefs of a Christ derived from Jewish scripture and Hellenized myths of savior gods. Nowhere do any of the New Testament epistle writers describe a human Jesus, including Paul. None of the epistles mention a Jesus from Nazareth, an earthly teacher, or as a human miracle worker. Nowhere do we find these writers quoting Jesus. Nowhere do we find them describing any details of Jesus' life on earth or his followers. Nowhere do we find the epistle writers even using the word "disciple" (they of course use the term "apostle" but the word simply means messenger, as Paul saw himself). Except for two well known interpolations, Jesus always gets presented as a spiritual being that existed before all time with God, and that knowledge of Christ came directly from God or as a revelation from the word of scripture. Doherty writes, "Christian documents outside the Gospels, even at the end of the first century and beyond, show no evidence that any tradition about an earthly life and ministry of Jesus were in circulation."

Furthermore, the epistle to the Hebrews (8:4), makes it explicitly clear that the epistle writer did not believe in a historical Jesus: "If He [Jesus] had been on earth, He would not be a priest."

These early historical documents can prove nothing about an actual Jesus but they do show an evolution of belief derived from varied and diverse concepts of Christianity, starting from a purely spiritual form of Christ to a human figure who embodied that spirit, as portrayed in the Gospels. The New Testament stories appears as an eclectic hodgepodge of Jewish, Hellenized and pagan stories compiled by pietistic believers to appeal to an audience for their particular religious times.
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Old June 4th, 2009, 10:45 AM   #385
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In the book The Jesus Puzzle, the biblical scholar, Earl Doherty, presents not only a challenge to the existence of an historical Jesus but reveals that early pre-Gospel Christian documents show that the concept of Jesus sprang from non-historical spiritual beliefs of a Christ derived from Jewish scripture and Hellenized myths of savior gods. Nowhere do any of the New Testament epistle writers describe a human Jesus, including Paul. None of the epistles mention a Jesus from Nazareth, an earthly teacher, or as a human miracle worker. Nowhere do we find these writers quoting Jesus. Nowhere do we find them describing any details of Jesus' life on earth or his followers. Nowhere do we find the epistle writers even using the word "disciple" (they of course use the term "apostle" but the word simply means messenger, as Paul saw himself). Except for two well known interpolations, Jesus always gets presented as a spiritual being that existed before all time with God, and that knowledge of Christ came directly from God or as a revelation from the word of scripture. Doherty writes, "Christian documents outside the Gospels, even at the end of the first century and beyond, show no evidence that any tradition about an earthly life and ministry of Jesus were in circulation."

Furthermore, the epistle to the Hebrews (8:4), makes it explicitly clear that the epistle writer did not believe in a historical Jesus: "If He [Jesus] had been on earth, He would not be a priest."

These early historical documents can prove nothing about an actual Jesus but they do show an evolution of belief derived from varied and diverse concepts of Christianity, starting from a purely spiritual form of Christ to a human figure who embodied that spirit, as portrayed in the Gospels. The New Testament stories appears as an eclectic hodgepodge of Jewish, Hellenized and pagan stories compiled by pietistic believers to appeal to an audience for their particular religious times.
So, I'm just curious if you got that from a website, or you actually did the research yourself? Seems like alot of that information would take a ridiculously large amount of time to come up with......Just curious.
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Old June 4th, 2009, 10:46 AM   #386
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We can't take you seriously because we don't believe any of the people you use as reference actually existed. All you have is some old book or old writing.

According to you that is not significant evidence to prove that someone in fact existed....

Therefore any and all historical writings relevant to the existance, or actions of any person are irrelevant.....
Good One! Seriously, I know it's hard for you to comprehend but look at what you really believe in. What about all of the Gods previous to Jesus who's stories are almost identical to the story of Jesus? What if people looked back on this time right now and wondered about Gorge Bush.....They search newspapers, poetry, play scripts, diaries and whatevery they could find, but no mention of him. The only mention of him is a work by an unknown author who did not ever seem to be alive during the time of said historical figure. Would this civilization believe in G.W. Bush, let alone worship him?
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Old June 4th, 2009, 10:57 AM   #387
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We can't take you seriously because we don't believe any of the people you use as reference actually existed. All you have is some old book or old writing.

According to you that is not significant evidence to prove that someone in fact existed....

Therefore any and all historical writings relevant to the existance, or actions of any person are irrelevant.....
Go away toes...
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Old June 4th, 2009, 10:59 AM   #388
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Hey, are there parts of the Bible where somebody claims to have had an interaction with Jesus, or even saw him in person?
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Old June 4th, 2009, 03:37 PM   #389
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The traditional Church has portrayed the authors as the apostles Mark, Luke, Matthew, & John, but scholars know from critical textural research that there simply occurs no evidence that the gospel authors could have served as the apostles described in the Gospel stories. Yet even today, we hear priests and ministers describing these authors as the actual disciples of Christ. Many Bibles still continue to label the stories as "The Gospel according to St. Matthew," "St. Mark," "St. Luke," St. John." No apostle would have announced his own sainthood before the Church's establishment of sainthood. But one need not refer to scholars to determine the lack of evidence for authorship. As an experiment, imagine the Gospels without their titles. See if you can find out from the texts who wrote them; try to find their names.
This is very true, You can't find that out. However, Almost every other book is labled as written by Paul, A servant of Christ. We get the Theology of Pauls letters from those Gospels or even the life of a Christ that Paul interacted with. There is some connection there. Also, Like I mentioned earlier, Jesus was a Peasant, It's not a surprise to me that his name isn't found anywhere outside of biblical texts because he wasn't really of Signifigance out side of his followers. He actually stirred up alot of crap and I'm sure writing about him in that time would have gotten any poet, Scribe, historian in trouble.

I'm still curious were you got the Vast See of your information. I understand from some books. I want to read them, Let me know what they are please.

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Hey, are there parts of the Bible where somebody claims to have had an interaction with Jesus, or even saw him in person?
Thomas was told to touch his Stigmata.

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Mark 20:26-29
26A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 27Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."

28Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

29Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."
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Luke 7:36-38

Now one of the Pharisees invited Jesus to have dinner with him, so he went to the Pharisee's house and reclined at the table. 37When a woman who had lived a sinful life in that town learned that Jesus was eating at the Pharisee's house, she brought an alabaster jar of perfume, 38and as she stood behind him at his feet weeping, she began to wet his feet with her tears. Then she wiped them with her hair, kissed them and poured perfume on them.
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Luke 8:43-49

As Jesus was on his way, the crowds almost crushed him. 43And a woman was there who had been subject to bleeding for twelve years,[d] but no one could heal her. 44She came up behind him and touched the edge of his cloak, and immediately her bleeding stopped.

45"Who touched me?" Jesus asked.
When they all denied it, Peter said, "Master, the people are crowding and pressing against you."

46But Jesus said, "Someone touched me; I know that power has gone out from me."

47Then the woman, seeing that she could not go unnoticed, came trembling and fell at his feet. In the presence of all the people, she told why she had touched him and how she had been instantly healed. 48Then he said to her, "Daughter, your faith has healed you. Go in peace."
Just a Few, There are many accounts of him Healing by touching.

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Old June 4th, 2009, 04:03 PM   #390
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They all seem like second-hand accounts though. Is there anywhere that it says "I talked to Jesus" or "I saw Jesus"
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Old June 4th, 2009, 04:57 PM   #391
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Hot food makes my evil exit tingle.
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Old June 4th, 2009, 05:45 PM   #392
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Good One! Seriously, I know it's hard for you to comprehend but look at what you really believe in. What about all of the Gods previous to Jesus who's stories are almost identical to the story of Jesus? What if people looked back on this time right now and wondered about Gorge Bush.....They search newspapers, poetry, play scripts, diaries and whatevery they could find, but no mention of him. The only mention of him is a work by an unknown author who did not ever seem to be alive during the time of said historical figure. Would this civilization believe in G.W. Bush, let alone worship him?

Better yet, does that mean George Bush didn't exist....

Pursuant to your line of argument, we can say that there is no proof as to the existance of a haost of historical figures, including Darwin.

Since we can not prove, or talk to anyone that knows him....

You must believe in Darwin because of blind faith.

It all comes down to what your going to believe, or what your going to take as a fact....

1 and 1, is it two or eleven.

I gave you several instances of fradulant proofs of evolution, you have not addressed a single one.

Also you have failed to give a single shread of evidence thats supports your position on Christianity.....

The argument regarding old records and the existance of historical figures cannot be reserved for Jesus only...The same argumant of existance must be consistant with all historical figures....

So is it your position that you don't believe historical writings, or your just selective in what you believe in an effort to support your position.....
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Old June 4th, 2009, 05:48 PM   #393
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They all seem like second-hand accounts though. Is there anywhere that it says "I talked to Jesus" or "I saw Jesus"

Would that change your mind??????
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Old June 4th, 2009, 05:50 PM   #394
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Hot food makes my evil exit tingle.

You mean hot as in spicy???

Also we don't pour concrete walls just flat work....Sorry

We could have a basement floor pouring party.....
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Old June 4th, 2009, 05:55 PM   #395
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Go away toes...

I'm not posting anything on the Mob beats a guys ass Thread, because you actually said something that makes sense, and sounded like a responsible conservative adult.....

It would kill me to have to agree......LOL


So, go wipe the spit from your baby face from you cutting new teeth...LOL
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Old June 4th, 2009, 06:24 PM   #396
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You'd think a Creator might at least have the ability to bark up some good solid evidence.


No you just need what they call "Blind Faith"
The evidence is there or here, just look
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Old June 4th, 2009, 06:26 PM   #397
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I'm not posting anything on the Mob beats a guys ass Thread, because you actually said something that makes sense, and sounded like a responsible conservative adult.....

It would kill me to have to agree......LOL


So, go wipe the spit from your baby face from you cutting new teeth...LOL
Well, I am glad that we agree on something. Although, I wouldn't really consider myself much of a conservative.


The "go away" comment was posted somewhat in jest in response to your "historical figures don't exist" argument, which i assume was also somewhat tongue in cheek.
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Old June 4th, 2009, 06:28 PM   #398
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The evidence is there or here, just look
Existence is NOT sufficient evidence to prove a creator.
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Old June 4th, 2009, 06:38 PM   #399
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Link doesn't work, but this one does...http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaver...7/radiodte.htm it shows that radio dating has never been proven to not work.
Try putting http in front of the link it should work, if not manually go to the site, it has a good explination of carbon 14/ radiometric dating. One thing you may be able to explain is with radiometric dating when the Grand canyon was dated from rocks top to bottom of the canyon the top layers where dated older than the bottom layers. Mount St. Helens, the eruption, the lava, hardened to rock and also dated to be millions of years old, but evolution scientist will not tell you bout these things, why?
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Old June 4th, 2009, 06:43 PM   #400
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Hey, are there parts of the Bible where somebody claims to have had an interaction with Jesus, or even saw him in person?
Besides His mother Mary, Father, the deciples
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