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Old May 29th, 2009, 11:22 AM   #281
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Don't be an idiot. I am in no way a religious person, but if you do not understand the difference between the old and new testaments, rethink your comments.
What does my statement have to do with new vs. old testament?
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Old May 29th, 2009, 02:55 PM   #282
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The article discredits itself when they keep referring to "transitional features." The "lack of transitional forms" is a common argument against evolution that is rooted in a misunderstanding of what the theory states. According to Darwin's theory every animal is a transitional form, there is no clear divide between species as evolution is a constant gradual process.

As far as proof of this, you could simply read up on evolution (If you do not understand this point you have no place criticizing evolution.) A much more detailed version of this is laid out in Richard Dawkins' book "The God Delusion" (I understand that this is not an unbiased source but it does explain what evolution entails, and is written by one of the worlds foremost evolutionary biologists.)
Evolution is a religion, you have made up your mind to believe it and there will be no convincing you otherwise. I could show you the truth but you would not see it because you are blind to the truth
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Old May 29th, 2009, 03:01 PM   #283
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Why question it? Why not just "go with it"? Sounds like somebody who voted for Nobama

He was making the point that the bible says your wife is basically your slave, and since you thump the bible, shouldn't you treat your wife the way the bible says to? "smack up your ho, or go to hell"
No, sorry no bama for me. And you could read the verses before and after which he quoted then you can put your 2 cents in, ok
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Old May 29th, 2009, 03:13 PM   #284
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WOW! You're pretty much saying "Yeah, I choose to only look at the parts of the Bible that make sense to me, and pretend the other stuff isn't there because it confuses me and discredits it's authenticity." Way, to sound like a blind follower.
No I do look at the Bible as a book in whole from cover to cover, and yes some parts I do not understand but I do not discredit what I don't understand. You say a blind follower, well I can't see faith so.... maybe I am a blind follower. It also says in the Bible not to change a dot or a tittle. I do not pick or choose what is in the Bible, I take it for what it is the inspired Word Of God
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Old May 29th, 2009, 03:13 PM   #285
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What does my statement have to do with new vs. old testament?
Because you replied in that context. "only believing in certain parts of the bible" when someone explained about some of the quotes out of the old testament not holding true for today.
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Old May 29th, 2009, 03:42 PM   #286
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Evolution is a religion, you have made up your mind to believe it and there will be no convincing you otherwise. I could show you the truth but you would not see it because you are blind to the truth
This is untrue, Evolution is the theory right now that has the most evidence supporting it. If someone finds enough evidence to support any other theory I will change my ideas.

Please explain to me how evolution would count as a religion, is the same true of any other scientific theory that I agree with? Is believing in gravity a religion? Is believing that the earth is round a religion?

Resorting to claims like that do nothing but show your complete ignorance on this topic, Creationists like you make every other religious person look bad.

and you have yet to answer my earlier question. If another god revealed himself and your god were proven wrong tomorrow, would you continue to follow your god or start worshiping the new one?
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Old May 29th, 2009, 04:59 PM   #287
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Everything turns to dust, after 1 million years, come on fruit rots in a few weeks. don't think it would last that long for us to see
O RLY?
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Old May 29th, 2009, 05:00 PM   #288
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Old May 29th, 2009, 05:18 PM   #289
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And while I respect your thoughts/beliefs, this pretty much ends any conversation we could ever have about religion because in the end you can use that answer for anything that doesn't make sense.
I won't use that answer all the time. However, it's no different in this case then people believing in the big bang say "matter always was". They can't prove it, I can't prove God. When it comes to the begining of the universe none of us know for sure. When it comes to religion, I try and stay away from "because God said so" as much as possible. It's not helpful to either sides of the debate. I'm up for stuff other then things nobody can prove.

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I have a question for the religious people: What would you do if Zeus revealed himself as real tomorrow? If your god was proven 100% false, and the true deity was known.

Would you continue to worship your previous false god or would you repent and follow Zeus?
I would Still follow my God. What would be really sweet if my God laid the smack down on Zeus as he was anouncing him self to the world.....Now that would be awesome.

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No I do look at the Bible as a book in whole from cover to cover, and yes some parts I do not understand but I do not discredit what I don't understand. You say a blind follower, well I can't see faith so.... maybe I am a blind follower. It also says in the Bible not to change a dot or a tittle. I do not pick or choose what is in the Bible, I take it for what it is the inspired Word Of God
Actually that part in Revelation is for Revelation only. If it weren't we'd have to be reading the bible in Hebrew, Greek, and/or Aramiahic.

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This is untrue, Evolution is the theory right now that has the most evidence supporting it. If someone finds enough evidence to support any other theory I will change my ideas.

Please explain to me how evolution would count as a religion, is the same true of any other scientific theory that I agree with? Is believing in gravity a religion? Is believing that the earth is round a religion?

Resorting to claims like that do nothing but show your complete ignorance on this topic, Creationists like you make every other religious person look bad.

and you have yet to answer my earlier question. If another god revealed himself and your god were proven wrong tomorrow, would you continue to follow your god or start worshiping the new one?
The theory of Evoultion is not a religion. The Theory of Evoultion opened up the door for people to be decieved into thinking that there could be no God. So, it's not a religion but it allows people to do what they want with no Responsibility to a higher being. Alot of people like this idea because we, as humans are, naturally evil. There are people out there that are openly defient to God and if evoultion were to be proven wrong and a creator were to be acknowleged scientifically those people would have a very hard chocie in front of them. They no longer would be able to do what ever they wanted with out responsability to a higher being. Atheism as a whole would be weekened tremendously because thier own logic would be thrown agianst them. If the logical and proven fact is that there is a creator, they would have to acknowldege that. So, it may not be a religion, but it's definatly not going to welcomed by many if there is proof agianst it. Which there is. And in all actuality, it's already gotten to a point that is out of control.
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Old May 29th, 2009, 05:31 PM   #290
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I know you probably won't think this is Valid because of the Author, But I got these from a Friend who got them From Kent Hovinds web site. It's bias, But I would hope that you "open Minded" people out there would at least finish it.

Quote:

Proof 1: Comets constantly lose their material until they are gone. Ask any scientist, the life expectancy of a comet is less than 10,000 years old. If the universe was billions of years old than all comets would have been long gone by now.

Proof 2: Stars blow up about every 30 years, but there are less than 300 super novas (dead stars) in existence. If the Earth was 4.5 billion years old, there would be hundreds of millions of them.

Proof 3: Jupiter is cooling off rapidly, losing heat constantly. It would be very cold by now if it were billions of years old, yet it is still hot.

Proof 4: Galaxies spin but the stars in the middle spin faster than those on the outside, yet there are still spiral arms on the galaxies – proof that they are only about 6,000 years old.

Proof 5: Saturn’s rings are expanding and unstable, they cannot be billions of years old.

Proof 6: The moon gets farther away from the Earth by a few inches each year. It causes the tides which would have made life impossible on Earth not much more than 6,000 years ago. Only 1.4 billion years ago the moon would have been colliding with the Earth.

Proof 7: The Earth’s magnet has lost 10% of its strength in the last 150 years and 40% of it in the last 1,000 years. This means that it cannot be more than 25,000 years old.

Proof 8: The Earth is spinning at a rate of about 1,000 miles an hour at the equator but it slows down about 1/1000th of a second every day. We need a “leap second” every year to a year and a half to account for this. If dinosaurs lived 65 million years ago than they would have been obliterated by 5,000 mile per hour winds. If the Earth was billions of years old than it would have stopped spinning by now and reversely it would have already been flattened like a pancake from the centrifugal force billions of years ago.

Proof 9: The World’s oldest desert, the Sahara, is 4,000 years old (consistent with the fact that 4,400 years ago the Earth flooded). If the Earth was any older than 6,000 years than there would be much bigger and older deserts.

Proof 10: The World’s oldest tree is 4,300 years old – if the world was billions of years old then why aren’t there much older trees?

Proof 11: The Great Barrier Reef is 4,200 years old – according to the age of the Earth in modern textbooks there should be much larger and older coral reefs.

Proof 12: Rock cannot hold the pressure of oil for more than 10,000 years.

Proof 13: Thousands of petrified trees connecting layers of “sedimentary rocks” are found everywhere on Earth, debunking the theory that one layer is older than another. Rather, the layers were formed in the flood.

Proof 14: At the current rate of erosion the continents would erode flat in 14 million years. How then can we have rocks that are supposedly 300 times older than that still above sea level?

Proof 15: The World’s oldest written language is about 5,200 years old.

Proof 16: Each year water and winds erode 25 billion tons of dirt and rock from the continents and deposit it in the ocean, which then accumulate as mud on the ocean floor. At this rate the average depth of all the mud in the whole ocean would be 60-100 miles deep if the Earth was 4.5 billion years old but the present amount of mud is only about four thousand feet, consistent with the fact that the Earth is 6,000 years old.

Proof 17: Each year rivers dump 450 million tons of sodium in the ocean. At this rate, if it started with no sodium, at its present levels the ocean could possibly be no more than 42 million years old. Noah’s flood accounts for the higher than expected levels of sodium.

Proof 18: Today the Earth’s population doubles every 50 years. If we assumed only half of the current growth rate and started with one couple it would take less than 4,000 years to achieve today’s population. There were only eight people on Noah’s ark.

Proof 19: The sun is shrinking at a rate of five feet per hour and that rate is slowing down – in the past the sun burned faster. At this rate it would have been twice its radius just one million years ago and touching the Earth just 20 million years ago. The idea that dinosaurs lived 65 million years ago is absurd.

Proof 20: Scientists agree that it takes 300 to 1,000 years to build one inch of topsoil, yet the average depth of topsoil on Earth is only about eight inches.

Proof 21: Meteoroids bombarding Saturn’s rings would have destroyed them far less than 20,000 years old.

Proof 22: Trillions of particles in Saturn’s rings are mainly solid ammonia. Because of its high vapor pressure, it could not survive more than 10,000 years without vaporizing into outer space.

Proof 23: Ultraviolet light changes moon rocks into dust. If it was 4 billion years old than there would be a 20-60 mile deep layer of dust on the moon (as was predicted for many years by “scientists”) yet it was recently discovered that there was only two to three inches (indicating a 6,000 year old moon).

Proof 24: Comets are primarily composed of water. So many small comets strike the earth that, if our planet were billions of years old, our land would be covered over with water many miles deep.

Proof 25: The Earth’s magnetic field is slowly lessening. 7,000 years ago the Earth would have had a magnetic field 32 times stronger. Only 20,000 years ago the heat would have been strong enough to liquefy the planet.

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Old May 29th, 2009, 05:47 PM   #291
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I know you probably won't think this is Valid because of the Author, But I got these from a Friend who got them From Kent Hovinds web site. It's bias, But I would hope that you "open Minded" people out there would at least finish it.
I didnt read all of them, just enough to know that whoever wrote that is pretty ignorant.... the "facts" in the "proof" are awfully vague and not exactly correct in most cases... it's like they picked and chose what points to use for the proof but left out the reality of what is happening.

if you can honestly read all of that and not come to your own conclusion that the author doesnt know shit then you need to get a little better understanding of things.

you bible thumpers are funny....
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Old May 29th, 2009, 05:53 PM   #292
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I would Still follow my God. What would be really sweet if my God laid the smack down on Zeus as he was anouncing him self to the world.....Now that would be awesome.
So you would still follow a god that is 100% false. Your opinion on theological arguments is useless, If you are unwilling to reconsider your position if yours if PROVEN false (which in the case of this hypothetical situation it was), then talking to you is about as productive as talking to a wall.

I can understand clinging to your beliefs, but clinging to them after they have been disproved is idiotic.
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Old May 29th, 2009, 05:57 PM   #293
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So you would still follow a god that is 100% false. Your opinion on theological arguments is useless, If you are unwilling to reconsider your position if yours if PROVEN false (which in the case of this hypothetical situation it was), then talking to you is about as productive as talking to a wall.

I can understand clinging to your beliefs, but clinging to them after they have been disproved is idiotic.
see "Flat Earth Society"
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Old May 29th, 2009, 07:44 PM   #294
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This is a quote posted by L4CX. My responses in red.

Proof 1: Comets constantly lose their material until they are gone. Ask any scientist, the life expectancy of a comet is less than 10,000 years old. If the universe was billions of years old than all comets would have been long gone by now.
Comets only "shed" when they are in close orbit to the sun. Very little of the comet's life is spent near the sun.


Proof 2: Stars blow up about every 30 years, but there are less than 300 super novas (dead stars) in existence. If the Earth was 4.5 billion years old, there would be hundreds of millions of them.
There are far more super novas, brown dwarfs, white dwarf, and black holes than 300. Scientists believe that there is a black hole in the center of every galaxy. Last time I checked there are more than a few dozen galaxys.

Proof 3: Jupiter is cooling off rapidly, losing heat constantly. It would be very cold by now if it were billions of years old, yet it is still hot.
False statement. Jupiter is in fact generating it's own heat due to it's massive size. If Jupiter would have much more mass it would initiate fusion and become a sun.

Proof 4: Galaxies spin but the stars in the middle spin faster than those on the outside, yet there are still spiral arms on the galaxies – proof that they are only about 6,000 years old.
Wat?

Proof 5: Saturn’s rings are expanding and unstable, they cannot be billions of years old.
Saturn's rings are very stable. The "rings" are fragments of rock and dust that never couleced to form a moon(s).

Proof 6: The moon gets farther away from the Earth by a few inches each year. It causes the tides which would have made life impossible on Earth not much more than 6,000 years ago. Only 1.4 billion years ago the moon would have been colliding with the Earth.
Impossible? No God magic? I don't remember the exact time frame but the earth did not have it's moon since the dawn of time.

Proof 7: The Earth’s magnet has lost 10% of its strength in the last 150 years and 40% of it in the last 1,000 years. This means that it cannot be more than 25,000 years old.
The Earth's magnetic field has been waxing and waining for as long as the planet has had a molten iron core. The North and South poles like to switch positions every so offten too.

Proof 8: The Earth is spinning at a rate of about 1,000 miles an hour at the equator but it slows down about 1/1000th of a second every day. We need a “leap second” every year to a year and a half to account for this. If dinosaurs lived 65 million years ago than they would have been obliterated by 5,000 mile per hour winds. If the Earth was billions of years old than it would have stopped spinning by now and reversely it would have already been flattened like a pancake from the centrifugal force billions of years ago.
I am too lazy to find the information to counterdict this statement right now.

Proof 9: The World’s oldest desert, the Sahara, is 4,000 years old (consistent with the fact that 4,400 years ago the Earth flooded). If the Earth was any older than 6,000 years than there would be much bigger and older deserts.
So all the Earth's desserts are 4,000 years old?

Proof 10: The World’s oldest tree is 4,300 years old – if the world was billions of years old then why aren’t there much older trees?
Because living things have a tendency to die.

Proof 11: The Great Barrier Reef is 4,200 years old – according to the age of the Earth in modern textbooks there should be much larger and older coral reefs.
I had to think about this one for a second. I believe the ice ages have influenced the number of "older" reefs. If I remember correctly, there are many examples of ancient corral reefs that are fossilized.

Proof 12: Rock cannot hold the pressure of oil for more than 10,000 years.
Based on what?

Proof 13: Thousands of petrified trees connecting layers of “sedimentary rocks” are found everywhere on Earth, debunking the theory that one layer is older than another. Rather, the layers were formed in the flood.
That had to be a bitch changing the layer matrixes using only one flood.

Proof 14: At the current rate of erosion the continents would erode flat in 14 million years. How then can we have rocks that are supposedly 300 times older than that still above sea level?
Ummm....volcanos and techtonic movement.

Proof 15: The World’s oldest written language is about 5,200 years old.
I'm sold.

Proof 16: Each year water and winds erode 25 billion tons of dirt and rock from the continents and deposit it in the ocean, which then accumulate as mud on the ocean floor. At this rate the average depth of all the mud in the whole ocean would be 60-100 miles deep if the Earth was 4.5 billion years old but the present amount of mud is only about four thousand feet, consistent with the fact that the Earth is 6,000 years old.
See my response to Proof #14

Proof 17: Each year rivers dump 450 million tons of sodium in the ocean. At this rate, if it started with no sodium, at its present levels the ocean could possibly be no more than 42 million years old. Noah’s flood accounts for the higher than expected levels of sodium.
WTF? Did God flood a salt mine?

Proof 18: Today the Earth’s population doubles every 50 years. If we assumed only half of the current growth rate and started with one couple it would take less than 4,000 years to achieve today’s population. There were only eight people on Noah’s ark.
This would be geometric progression and would only take about 40 cycles to fill the entire planet with nothing but people. I think the numbers are waaaaay off.
Proof 19: The sun is shrinking at a rate of five feet per hour and that rate is slowing down – in the past the sun burned faster. At this rate it would have been twice its radius just one million years ago and touching the Earth just 20 million years ago. The idea that dinosaurs lived 65 million years ago is absurd.
The Sun was smaller when it was younger. As a sun ages it expands because it's gravitational force can not hold it in as well.

Proof 20: Scientists agree that it takes 300 to 1,000 years to build one inch of topsoil, yet the average depth of topsoil on Earth is only about eight inches.
Proof that scientists agree. See Proof #16 for my response to this statement.

Proof 21: Meteoroids bombarding Saturn’s rings would have destroyed them far less than 20,000 years old.
Saturn's rings are nothing but old meteoroids and rocks that have been caught in the gravitational pull of the planet.

Proof 22: Trillions of particles in Saturn’s rings are mainly solid ammonia. Because of its high vapor pressure, it could not survive more than 10,000 years without vaporizing into outer space.
Vapor pressure is a function of temperature. It's cold enough in space to keep the ammonia in a solid state.

Proof 23: Ultraviolet light changes moon rocks into dust. If it was 4 billion years old than there would be a 20-60 mile deep layer of dust on the moon (as was predicted for many years by “scientists”) yet it was recently discovered that there was only two to three inches (indicating a 6,000 year old moon).
Ultraviolet light does not change moon rocks to dust. The constant bombardment of the Moon's surface by Meteoroids, comets, and debris is the source of the dust (Google the word "ejecta").

Proof 24: Comets are primarily composed of water. So many small comets strike the earth that, if our planet were billions of years old, our land would be covered over with water many miles deep.
We have a shitload of water!

Proof 25: The Earth’s magnetic field is slowly lessening. 7,000 years ago the Earth would have had a magnetic field 32 times stronger. Only 20,000 years ago the heat would have been strong enough to liquefy the planet.
See Proof #7 for my response to this statement

Last edited by Nuggets; May 29th, 2009 at 11:45 PM.
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Old May 29th, 2009, 08:18 PM   #295
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Proof 2: Stars blow up about every 30 years, but there are less than 300 super novas (dead stars) in existence. If the Earth was 4.5 billion years old, there would be hundreds of millions of them.
There are far more super novas, brown dwarfs, white dwarf, and black holes than 300. Scientists believe that there is a black hole in the center of every universe. Last time I checked there are more than a few dozen universes.
I don't mean to be anal but as far as we know there is only one universe (there could be many more but we have no proof of it) i think you meant to say galaxy.

otherwise, great post. I was too lazy to address them one by one.
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Old May 29th, 2009, 10:12 PM   #296
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This is untrue, Evolution is the theory right now that has the most evidence supporting it. If someone finds enough evidence to support any other theory I will change my ideas.

Please explain to me how evolution would count as a religion, is the same true of any other scientific theory that I agree with? Is believing in gravity a religion? Is believing that the earth is round a religion?

Resorting to claims like that do nothing but show your complete ignorance on this topic, Creationists like you make every other religious person look bad.

and you have yet to answer my earlier question. If another god revealed himself and your god were proven wrong tomorrow, would you continue to follow your god or start worshiping the new one?
I have found something to support my view and it is made by creation scientists and evolutionary scientists www.creationworldview.org/articles_view?id=89
Keep an open mind as you will read quotes from Darwin and many other evolutionary scientists who admit their wrong, (maybe you will too)oh ya and your ignorance also
And your question about another god, like maybe mohamid, and lets say that Christ revealed Himself to me for who He claimed to be. Yes I would worship the one and only true God. I would also thank Him for showing me the truth and that I am no longer believing a lie like so many do.
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Old May 29th, 2009, 10:31 PM   #297
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I have found something to support my view and it is made by creation scientists and evolutionary scientists www.creationworldview.org/articles_view?id=89
Keep an open mind as you will read quotes from Darwin and many other evolutionary scientists who admit their wrong, (maybe you will too)oh ya and your ignorance also
And your question about another god, like maybe mohamid, and lets say that Christ revealed Himself to me for who He claimed to be. Yes I would worship the one and only true God. I would also thank Him for showing me the truth and that I am no longer believing a lie like so many do.
All the scientific talk is making my head spin, but to me it's very, very simple. Nobody likes the idea of themselves and all of their loved ones being worm food. The difference is that I can accept it, and you and the rest of the bible thumpers are too arrogent to. Nuff said
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Old May 29th, 2009, 11:11 PM   #298
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I can't believe the energy people waist/spend on these topics.

Incredible.
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Old May 29th, 2009, 11:24 PM   #299
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All the scientific talk is making my head spin, but to me it's very, very simple. Nobody likes the idea of themselves and all of their loved ones being worm food. The difference is that I can accept it, and you and the rest of the bible thumpers are too arrogent to. Nuff said
Worm food, I have no problem with that either, maybe the word you where thinking of was humble instead of arrogent
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Old May 29th, 2009, 11:27 PM   #300
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Worm food, I have no problem with that either, maybe the word you where thinking of was humble instead of arrogent
Humble my ass. If bible thumpers were humble instead of arrogent, they'd be able to deal with and accept simple absolute Mortality
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