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Old May 26th, 2009, 12:42 PM   #201
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So you have a problem with the complexities of this world, so you prefer to turn a blind eye and just pretend that some dude just dropped everything here? Your quote about beating around the creator idea is also baffling me. Over the years it has been slowly proven that certian things are created by chance, science, and math just like the way that people are slowly uncovering things that link humans to their roots.
Have you ever seen the complexities of the human cell? I've only skimmed the surface in my research and am amazed anybody can look at it and say it happend by accident. I have no problem with the complexities. The more complex the less probible that it happened just by chance. You actually completely miss understood what I said. Darwin thought that the cell was a Mystical Black box, he also said that if there was anything that could be shown to be designed his theory would fall apart. Later on in his life he admitted to being scared of the thought of the complextities of the human eye. Also, A Peacock in full plume made him shutter. How could a thing so beautiful be by chance.

What I'm saying is that the deeper and deeper science advances the more and more complex our world gets. It's a Process of making the Probability of "By Chance" more and more slim. A Human cell resembles an assembly line in it's most basic form. If you walked into a GM plant in lansing and saw all the machines working in harmony you wouldn't be Neive enough to think that the plant grew from a seed would you? That's what science has to deal with right now.

BTW, Science is the study of God. God created this planet and universe, at it's Infancy science was a way to worship God. Any solid proof you can give me and scientifically prove, I'll believe. And I'll be able to show how it's part of God's Design. I don't believe he just dropped his finger and left, I see his design all around and reval in it's beauty and it's Complexities. Those Complexities are too many for the thoery of Evoultion over billions of years to work. No matter how many times the scientists wave the magic want of "A couple billion years" it doesn't add up.


Did I clear my self up?

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Old May 26th, 2009, 01:37 PM   #202
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A snail walks into a Cadillac dealership and tells a salesman he needs the most expensive car they have. The salesman, estatically thinking of his commission, shows him the top of the line Caddy.

The snail says, "This is perfect, except for one thing. I need to have a very large "S" painted on each door.

The salesman asks, "Why in the world would you want that?"

The snail replies, "Because, when I'm driving down the street, I want everyone to say, "Jesus! Look at that S car go!"
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Old May 26th, 2009, 01:47 PM   #203
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A snail walks into a Cadillac dealership and tells a salesman he needs the most expensive car they have. The salesman, estatically thinking of his commission, shows him the top of the line Caddy.

The snail says, "This is perfect, except for one thing. I need to have a very large "S" painted on each door.

The salesman asks, "Why in the world would you want that?"

The snail replies, "Because, when I'm driving down the street, I want everyone to say, "Jesus! Look at that S car go!"
Badum-Ching!!!
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Old May 26th, 2009, 02:00 PM   #204
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.....and on the 8th day, God sprinking dinasour bones all across the earth, then laid back and laughed.
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Old May 27th, 2009, 01:37 PM   #205
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How about this proof of micro-evolution?
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...evolution.html

Also, here are 15 examples of evloution
http://www.nature.com/nature/newspdf/evolutiongems.pdf

Please read if you have time.
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Old May 27th, 2009, 02:14 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by clint357 View Post
How about this proof of micro-evolution?
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...evolution.html

Also, here are 15 examples of evloution
http://www.nature.com/nature/newspdf/evolutiongems.pdf

Please read if you have time.
That is the problem with arguing with religous type people, they simply won't read it.


I've read the bible, so I can make a good case for my decisions on religion, but if you're only going to read the bible, you will never have any other opinions.

I think it's good to know all the opinions/facts then form your thoughts around them.
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Old May 27th, 2009, 03:33 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by clint357 View Post
How about this proof of micro-evolution?
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...evolution.html

Also, here are 15 examples of evloution
http://www.nature.com/nature/newspdf/evolutiongems.pdf

Please read if you have time.

I believe in Micro-evolution. As in things adapt to thier envoirnment.

I'll read the 15 examples when I can get time. Right now, I have to get home before it start down pouring agian.
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Old May 27th, 2009, 04:44 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by clarkstoncracker View Post
That is the problem with arguing with religous type people, they simply won't read it.


I've read the bible, so I can make a good case for my decisions on religion, but if you're only going to read the bible, you will never have any other opinions.

I think it's good to know all the opinions/facts then form your thoughts around them.
Well for evolution you need transional fossils and none have been found. The part about human genes it is called adapting to your enviroment.
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Old May 27th, 2009, 04:47 PM   #209
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Ignorance is bliss......
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Old May 27th, 2009, 05:09 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by clint357 View Post
How about this proof of micro-evolution?
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...evolution.html

Also, here are 15 examples of evloution
http://www.nature.com/nature/newspdf/evolutiongems.pdf

Please read if you have time.
Is anyone arguing that evolution doesn't happen? I think the problem here is they find a fucking monkey with what they think is flat fingernails or something and automatically it is supposed to be the magic monkey ancestor.


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this thread officially sucks


BTW heads up for it being a fake. The whole story about being in a private collection for 25 years then alla sudden ZING! magic monkey! is a little too silly
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Old May 27th, 2009, 09:32 PM   #211
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Have you ever seen the complexities of the human cell? I've only skimmed the surface in my research and am amazed anybody can look at it and say it happend by accident. I have no problem with the complexities. The more complex the less probible that it happened just by chance. You actually completely miss understood what I said. Darwin thought that the cell was a Mystical Black box, he also said that if there was anything that could be shown to be designed his theory would fall apart. Later on in his life he admitted to being scared of the thought of the complextities of the human eye. Also, A Peacock in full plume made him shutter. How could a thing so beautiful be by chance.
I didn't read your whole post here but I felt that i needed to respond to this. Creationists often claim that Darwin was troubled by the complexity of the eye, often refering to this quote:

Quote:
"To suppose that the eye, with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest possible degree."
The problem with this is that creationists completely leave out the second part of this quote:

Quote:
Yet reason tells me, that if numerous gradations from a perfect and complex eye to one very imperfect and simple, each grade being useful to its possessor, can be shown to exist; if further, the eye does vary ever so slightly, and the variations be inherited, which is certainly the case; and if variation or modification in the organ be ever useful to an animal under changing conditions of life, then the difficulty of believing that a perfect and complex eye could be formed by natural selection, though insuperable by our imagination, can hardly be considered real
Now with the statement in context it is easy to see that Darwin was not troubled by the eye's complexity.

I do not know if L4CX was aware of this so I will give him the benefit of the doubt here and hope that he was just misinformed, but when intentional, this type of dishonest quote mining frustrates me to no end.
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Old May 27th, 2009, 10:19 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by clarkstoncracker View Post
That is the problem with arguing with religous type people, they simply won't read it.


I've read the bible, so I can make a good case for my decisions on religion, but if you're only going to read the bible, you will never have any other opinions.

I think it's good to know all the opinions/facts then form your thoughts around them.
I read the stuff and ended up going on a two hour jaunt on the National Geographic site.

Anyway, I still believe in intelligent design and that the "scientific" origins of man, animal or beast were the creation of God.
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Old May 27th, 2009, 10:22 PM   #213
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I read the stuff and ended up going on a two hour jaunt on the National Geographic site.

Anyway, I still believe in intelligent design and that the "scientific" origins of man, animal or beast were the creation of God.
I sorta lean that way. I think he (it, plasma, life force, etc) started out with simple cells, moved up to dinosaurs, said screw it, I'm starting over, and moved on.
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Old May 27th, 2009, 10:28 PM   #214
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Originally Posted by no1likesme View Post
I didn't read your whole post here but I felt that i needed to respond to this. Creationists often claim that Darwin was troubled by the complexity of the eye, often refering to this quote:



The problem with this is that creationists completely leave out the second part of this quote:



Now with the statement in context it is easy to see that Darwin was not troubled by the eye's complexity.

I do not know if L4CX was aware of this so I will give him the benefit of the doubt here and hope that he was just misinformed, but when intentional, this type of dishonest quote mining frustrates me to no end.

I appreciate being informed on this. However, I don't see any difference in this and any other arguement that Evoultionists bring up. LIke the Bacterial Flagelem (SP?) and the arguement with the mouse trap. A mouse trap appears to be designed and with just one peice missing it does not function as a mouse trap. So ID people say that it's no different with the Bacteria Flagelem. With just one part of the flagelem missing it can't function as that.

Evoultionists would argue that the mouse trap may no function as a mouse trap but it does make a great tie holder. The Flagelem may not function as a Flagelem but it can be used as a Poison Injecting device.

The Fault with this is that to step from one to another is Very improbable. The word "could" is used alot. The mere process of getting both of the parts of a cell that are used in this arguements ponits to design. There is a Complex series of events that MUST happen, in the order they do, to get the final product. If you miss just one emmino acid or step in the process it won't work.

Darwin may have explained the process of how it COULD have happened. But just as almost every other instance, it is lacking proof of the Numerous amounts of animals that woudl have to be in order for it to evolve from one to another. These kind of animals shouldn't be rare. They should be almost anoyingly vast in number. The fact they only found ONE instance of this missing link and there should be thousands is questionable to me. It should not take that much effort to find transitional Fossils when there SHOULD be millions if not trillions of them in the earth.
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Old May 27th, 2009, 10:37 PM   #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no1likesme View Post
I didn't read your whole post here but I felt that i needed to respond to this. Creationists often claim that Darwin was troubled by the complexity of the eye, often refering to this quote:



The problem with this is that creationists completely leave out the second part of this quote:



Now with the statement in context it is easy to see that Darwin was not troubled by the eye's complexity.

I do not know if L4CX was aware of this so I will give him the benefit of the doubt here and hope that he was just misinformed, but when intentional, this type of dishonest quote mining frustrates me to no end.

The thing with Darwin was he had a theroy that's it a theroy and many people take it as fact.
I have a theroy, I believe that evolution is a way to discredit creation. Man did not evolve from monkey or .... whatever. There would also have to be transitional fossils of all kinds and none are to be found. Find proof of the transitional fossils then lets talk. Otherwise I do not believe you have a leg to stand on. Evolution does not make sense.
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Old May 27th, 2009, 10:37 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
I appreciate being informed on this. However, I don't see any difference in this and any other arguement that Evoultionists bring up. LIke the Bacterial Flagelem (SP?) and the arguement with the mouse trap. A mouse trap appears to be designed and with just one peice missing it does not function as a mouse trap. So ID people say that it's no different with the Bacteria Flagelem. With just one part of the flagelem missing it can't function as that.

Evoultionists would argue that the mouse trap may no function as a mouse trap but it does make a great tie holder. The Flagelem may not function as a Flagelem but it can be used as a Poison Injecting device.

The Fault with this is that to step from one to another is Very improbable. The word "could" is used alot. The mere process of getting both of the parts of a cell that are used in this arguements ponits to design. There is a Complex series of events that MUST happen, in the order they do, to get the final product. If you miss just one emmino acid or step in the process it won't work.

Darwin may have explained the process of how it COULD have happened. But just as almost every other instance, it is lacking proof of the Numerous amounts of animals that woudl have to be in order for it to evolve from one to another. These kind of animals shouldn't be rare. They should be almost anoyingly vast in number. The fact they only found ONE instance of this missing link and there should be thousands is questionable to me. It should not take that much effort to find transitional Fossils when there SHOULD be millions if not trillions of them in the earth.
I believe there are lots of transitional fossils out there. The problem was just finding the evidence to support the THEORY.

The thing alot of people are missing here is that the scientific community is not presenting any of this as FACT. They are just stating the have EVIDENCE that may support their THEORY.
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Old May 27th, 2009, 10:41 PM   #217
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The thing with Darwin was he had a theroy that's it a theroy and many people take it as fact.
I have a theroy, I believe that evolution is a way to discredit creation. Man did not evolve from monkey or .... whatever. There would also have to be transitional fossils of all kinds and none are to be found. Find proof of the transitional fossils then lets talk. Otherwise I do not believe you have a leg to stand on. Evolution does not make sense.

Look up the definition of a theory. I think what you will find is that you really have a hypothesis.
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Old May 27th, 2009, 10:49 PM   #218
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The whole story about being in a private collection for 25 years then alla sudden ZING! magic monkey! is a little too silly

I find it perfectly believable. No different than some uber-rare car being found in an old man's garage after he dies. Nobody knew it was valuable, and nobody knew it was there.
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Old May 27th, 2009, 10:52 PM   #219
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Lacking any evidence (of course) I'd like to mention the similarities in DNA between man and ape. I guess i'll do the research when I get a chance, but i'm sure someone on here has a somewhat accurate grasp on this.
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Old May 27th, 2009, 10:52 PM   #220
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I find it perfectly believable. No different than some uber-rare car being found in an old man's garage after he dies. Nobody knew it was valuable, and nobody knew it was there.
I find it believeable that maybe you came from a monkey too
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