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Old May 2nd, 2009, 06:46 PM   #61
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When I quote, I almost always give the source. Not sure if I have ever quoted without doing so on this site.

My opinion and views based on my life experiences and research on topics are quotes unto themselves, I am the source.

Obama has been portrayed as a devil and evil many times. If you do not realize that, you did not follow the election last year.

Quick search:

http://minnesotaindependent.com/2992...il-horns-photo

http://www.zazzle.com/anti_obama_red...33998380435299

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.p...w&pageId=96841

Fox News columnist:

http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/20...inkerton_1023/

A man of the cloth:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDhijB5hHWY

http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/2009/...-is-devil.html


The devil by omission?

http://mediamatters.org/items/200710120009

Even Chavez thinks he is the devil:

http://www.stoptheaclu.com/archives/...-is-the-devil/




Talk about far right. I am sure you can find plenty of fuel here:

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=488824

An article pointing out the trend and condemning it.

http://latinola.com/story.php?story=6765


There is plenty more. Does not take much to find it.

I made my statement based on what I have read and heard and seen over the past couple of years. Not sure what else you might want.
Congrates: I am happy that you found these sources because I have never heard of them. I guess there are crazy people that will say anything. I do not think that Obama has horns or is the devil. Actually he is a likeable guy with a nice family, I just do not agree with his policies

Since you are the source, you do not need to give me any more sources when you and I debate as I will take your word for it. thank you for your time and effort that you put into all this.
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Old May 2nd, 2009, 06:49 PM   #62
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Congrates: I am happy that you found these sources because I have never heard of them. I guess there are crazy people that will say anything. I do not think that Obama has horns or is the devil. Actually he is a likeable guy with a nice family, I just do not agree with his policies

Since you are the source, you do not need to give me any more sources when you and I debate as I will take your word for it. thank you for your time and effort that you put into all this.

Don't take my word for anything unless I am expressing my opinion. I am open to be corrected, but bring something substantial if you want to correct me.
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Old May 5th, 2009, 04:19 PM   #63
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with time people like you will die away and people will be accepting of others lifestyle choices. Church folk used to preach that inter-racial marriage was a sin, but it doesn't seem to be a big problem now. With time, the same will be true of gay marriage/relationships.
Not Gay marriage. Sorry. Homosexuality is in a list of many sins of the flesh. I don't particularly know were the bible says you can't marry inter-racialy. Plus, Marriage is Sacred and Created by God (In a Christian Worldview), I find it very odd that you would think that we would alow that too happen. Unless of course you mean when all the Christians will disapear.....Then yeah, you're right.

Our Country was founded on Christian Morals. George washington believed that a Republic's Morals could only come from Religion. That Freedom and Religion were intertwined and you could not have freedom with out religion. He was not the only one, Many founding fathers shared this idea. It's not a Surprise to me at all that this bill has passed, and that it could evolve into something bigger. It's bound to happen.
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Old May 5th, 2009, 07:36 PM   #64
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Our Country was founded on Christian Morals. George washington believed that a Republic's Morals could only come from Religion. That Freedom and Religion were intertwined and you could not have freedom with out religion. He was not the only one, Many founding fathers shared this idea. It's not a Surprise to me at all that this bill has passed, and that it could evolve into something bigger. It's bound to happen.


why didn't they include any of this in the constitution?
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Old May 6th, 2009, 03:14 PM   #65
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why didn't they include any of this in the constitution?

I would guess because they assumed that most people would stick to this idea. That and the beginings of this country were very focused on Proclaiming the Gospel of Jesus Christ. These men knew that they could not make laws and rules without the guidence of a higher power. Harvard's first motto was " Veritas Christo et Ecclesiae (Truth For Christ and the Church) ". Princeton's was "Cursed is all learning that is contrary to the Cross of Christ". Why bother putting that in the Constitution when the obvious aim of the country (then) was to extend the Kingdom of God. Things changed (right around when Darwin started his crap) and anti religious cry babies got thier way and now we are stuck with what we have. If we would have stayed the course that the Founding fathers really had in mind I can only imagen how amazing this country would be.

Also, they did believe in freedom for EVERYONE. Not all the founding fathers were believers. I do believe that they did acknowledge a higher power ( The Creator by which we are endowed our rights) but they would not force that on anybody who came to the US. They came from a time and land were the church had overstepped it's bounds and they wanted to start a new union that used the Precepts of Christianity but gave freedom to those who wanted it. Christian or not.


One more thing I just thought of. If you don't believe in a God or Creator, Were do your rights come from according to our nations documents?
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Old May 6th, 2009, 03:38 PM   #66
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I would guess because they assumed that most people would stick to this idea. That and the beginings of this country were very focused on Proclaiming the Gospel of Jesus Christ. These men knew that they could not make laws and rules without the guidence of a higher power. Harvard's first motto was " Veritas Christo et Ecclesiae (Truth For Christ and the Church) ". Princeton's was "Cursed is all learning that is contrary to the Cross of Christ". Why bother putting that in the Constitution when the obvious aim of the country (then) was to extend the Kingdom of God. Things changed (right around when Darwin started his crap) and anti religious cry babies got thier way and now we are stuck with what we have. If we would have stayed the course that the Founding fathers really had in mind I can only imagen how amazing this country would be.

Also, they did believe in freedom for EVERYONE. Not all the founding fathers were believers. I do believe that they did acknowledge a higher power ( The Creator by which we are endowed our rights) but they would not force that on anybody who came to the US. They came from a time and land were the church had overstepped it's bounds and they wanted to start a new union that used the Precepts of Christianity but gave freedom to those who wanted it. Christian or not.


One more thing I just thought of. If you don't believe in a God or Creator, Were do your rights come from according to our nations documents?
My civil rights are granted to me by my nation's Constitution. Are you saying that God gave me my civil rights and the founders were prophets? The Constitution is an "inspired" document? You are living in a fantasy world.

The Constitution was a social contract made between human beings who were sick of a tyrannical monarchy.
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Old May 6th, 2009, 04:54 PM   #67
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My civil rights are granted to me by my nation's Constitution. Are you saying that God gave me my civil rights and the founders were prophets? The Constitution is an "inspired" document? You are living in a fantasy world.

The Constitution was a social contract made between human beings who were sick of a tyrannical monarchy.
Mike,

Are there going to be any cum guzzeling flamming fags at your Bach Party this weekend? I'd like to use my freedom of speak and mention that they are hell bound before it's taking away from me
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Old May 6th, 2009, 07:50 PM   #68
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My civil rights are granted to me by my nation's Constitution.
If you really believe that then you should return your diploma and ask for your money back because your school has failed you.

Please read this again and understand........

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed


By your logic your rights can be taken from you by the very Government that granted them to you in the first place. However we both know that they can not take those rights from you. That's what unalienable means. The government is there to secure those rights, not to grant those rights to you through the constitution.

You are born with among others, the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. You don't have to believe they were granted to you by your creator like the framers believed. However to believe that they are granted to you by the gov't is to believe that the gov't owns you, that you are a slave to Uncle Sam and by the grace of the those in power you are allowed to live, be free and pursue your happiness and that is very wrong.
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Old May 6th, 2009, 07:51 PM   #69
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My civil rights are granted to me by my nation's Constitution. Are you saying that God gave me my civil rights and the founders were prophets? The Constitution is an "inspired" document? You are living in a fantasy world.

The Constitution was a social contract made between human beings who were sick of a tyrannical monarchy.

How did the Founding fathers come to the conclusion that those rights were only endowed by thier Creator as Spelled out in the first paragraph of the Declaration of Independence? Sounds like they thought exactly how I do. If they didn't, the wouldn't have signed the Document. Our Rights as Americans (and Humans) comes from one person and one person only. That is an almighty creator. The Signers of the That document believed that and I question why people like you believe other wise. It's in Writing, Right before your eyes.
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Old May 6th, 2009, 08:09 PM   #70
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If you really believe that then you should return your diploma and ask for your money back because your school has failed you.

Please read this again and understand........

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed


By your logic your rights can be taken from you by the very Government that granted them to you in the first place. However we both know that they can not take those rights from you. That's what unalienable means. The government is there to secure those rights, not to grant those rights to you through the constitution.

You are born with among others, the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. You don't have to believe they were granted to you by your creator like the framers believed. However to believe that they are granted to you by the gov't is to believe that the gov't owns you, that you are a slave to Uncle Sam and by the grace of the those in power you are allowed to live, be free and pursue your happiness and that is very wrong.
EXACTLY CORRECT! Excellent post!
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Old May 6th, 2009, 10:11 PM   #71
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So how did the framers know which rights were endowed to us by our "creator"? From the bible, a book written by other men from an older time? It all comes back to humans. Humans write rules so that we can get along with one another. I have seen no evidence that there is a god handing out rights to people...
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Old May 6th, 2009, 10:13 PM   #72
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Mike,

Are there going to be any cum guzzeling flamming fags at your Bach Party this weekend? I'd like to use my freedom of speak and mention that they are hell bound before it's taking away from me
Maybe you shouldn't come then...
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Old May 6th, 2009, 10:17 PM   #73
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If you really believe that then you should return your diploma and ask for your money back because your school has failed you.

Please read this again and understand........

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed


By your logic your rights can be taken from you by the very Government that granted them to you in the first place. However we both know that they can not take those rights from you. That's what unalienable means. The government is there to secure those rights, not to grant those rights to you through the constitution.

You are born with among others, the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. You don't have to believe they were granted to you by your creator like the framers believed. However to believe that they are granted to you by the gov't is to believe that the gov't owns you, that you are a slave to Uncle Sam and by the grace of the those in power you are allowed to live, be free and pursue your happiness and that is very wrong.

Which rights are granted to us through the Declaration of Independence? Also what laws are based off the Declaration of Independence?
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Old May 6th, 2009, 10:32 PM   #74
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So how did the framers know which rights were endowed to us by our "creator"? From the bible, a book written by other men from an older time? It all comes back to humans. Humans write rules so that we can get along with one another. I have seen no evidence that there is a god handing out rights to people...


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If you really believe that then you should return your diploma and ask for your money back because your school has failed you.

Please read this again and understand........

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed


By your logic your rights can be taken from you by the very Government that granted them to you in the first place.........
Apparently they believed the ones in the Declaration. If you don't agree then maybe you should move. From what I've gathered you believe in those rights God or not. As 3-Foot said, You don't have to believe in that God, I just wish we as a nation new our history in a more pure form then we get it in.

What I find absoultly astounding is that thier Failed expierement is just one more chapter in the history of God's attempt to reach his children. Israel rejected him, the jewish leaders crucified him, the roman catholic church did horrendous things in his name and the US was an attempt to start a Government that was founded on his precepts. We still failed. Not because God Failed, but because we got away from him in the process. Even if the bible was just a book of stories it shows what happens when we as humans try to take control. Things fall apart. We cannot do this on our own, History spells that out time and time again.
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Old May 6th, 2009, 10:40 PM   #75
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Apparently they believed the ones in the Declaration. If you don't agree then maybe you should move. From what I've gathered you believe in those rights God or not. As 3-Foot said, You don't have to believe in that God, I just wish we as a nation new our history in a more pure form then we get it in.

What I find absoultly astounding is that thier Failed expierement is just one more chapter in the history of God's attempt to reach his children. Israel rejected him, the jewish leaders crucified him, the roman catholic church did horrendous things in his name and the US was an attempt to start a Government that was founded on his precepts. We still failed. Not because God Failed, but because we got away from him in the process. Even if the bible was just a book of stories it shows what happens when we as humans try to take control. Things fall apart. We cannot do this on our own, History spells that out time and time again.
how did the framers know that a god gave us the rights to "life, liberty, and hapiness"? Did he tell them?
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Old May 6th, 2009, 11:02 PM   #76
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how did the framers know that a god gave us the rights to "life, liberty, and hapiness"? Did he tell them?
I donn't know. Wasn't there. Were you?

I'm gonna go with that they applied what was taught in the bible to thier lives and came up with those rights as basic human rights. Do you not agree with them? Is there a Problem with Life, Liberty, and/or the Pursuit of Happiness? If they came to that conclusion via a Revaltion from the word of God does that invalidate thier ideas to you? I would certianly hope not.

The Framers lived in a Culture that is different then ours. People were held to higher standards and took responsibility for what they did. Alot of the morals that even athiests followed were influenced by the ones found in the bible. The truth of the matter is that God spells out order in his word and in the establishments that he created. The Framers saw this and built the cornerstones of this country on them.
Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
Father, Mother, Children
God, Pastors, Church
Executive, Legislative, Judicial.
It's not just by Chance those are set up that way.

<Small break for Midnight Scream at MSU>


BTW, It's The Pursuit of Happiness. Not just Happiness. This is also an issue I have with alot of people in this country. They think they Deserve to be happy with out any work. There is a Reason we have a right to pursue it and not just have it given to us. I'm hoping that was a just a typo.
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Old May 7th, 2009, 06:55 AM   #77
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how did the framers know that a god gave us the rights to "life, liberty, and hapiness"? Did he tell them?

A scientist told them. He called it an undispuitable fact.......
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Old May 7th, 2009, 07:35 AM   #78
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Maybe you shouldn't come then...
Sweet, so there are going to be pillow biters at the party . . . I told bobbie it was going to be a good time
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Old May 7th, 2009, 08:25 AM   #79
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My "Creator" is nature. That is what I believe. A natural progess of life on this planet starting with the primordial ooze.

So, yes, I guess my "Creator" gave me my rights. I am a part of the society of man. An equal member.

The founding fathers did not spell out exactly who this "Creator" is. I am sure that was for a reason. Such an ambiguous term allows a diversity not encumbered by a specific ideal.

Morals are not exclusive to religion. The Christian religion just recorded the ones that fit thier needs. (and used the same teachings to violate those morals on many occasions through out history)
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Old May 7th, 2009, 08:30 AM   #80
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Not Gay marriage. Sorry. Homosexuality is in a list of many sins of the flesh. I don't particularly know were the bible says you can't marry inter-racialy. Plus, Marriage is Sacred and Created by God (In a Christian Worldview), I find it very odd that you would think that we would alow that too happen. Unless of course you mean when all the Christians will disapear.....Then yeah, you're right.

Our Country was founded on Christian Morals. George washington believed that a Republic's Morals could only come from Religion. That Freedom and Religion were intertwined and you could not have freedom with out religion. He was not the only one, Many founding fathers shared this idea. It's not a Surprise to me at all that this bill has passed, and that it could evolve into something bigger. It's bound to happen.
Well, back to the original comment as we aren't going to get anywhere in the other argument...Since you believe our government was founded on Christian Morals, what are you going to say when gay marriage becomes legal in more and more states? Are YOU going to LEAVE the country, as you asked if I would?
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