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Old January 14th, 2016, 10:48 PM   #1
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Default skool me on common core education

Debate...why is it good, why is it bad?
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Old January 14th, 2016, 10:58 PM   #2
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I still have yet to talk with a single person that thinks it a good thing.
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Old January 14th, 2016, 11:34 PM   #3
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Default skool me on common core education

Bobby has 3 squirrels and Jenny has 7 apples, if tommy jumps off the roof, how many dishes can many wash in an hour when the dog barks?

My wife is a teacher. While there are some merits to it, her words not mine, she thinks how this was rolled out was moronic.

My 12yr old son is a math wiz, in Algebra 2, but getting a C in common core math...something isn't right here. And why does he have to talk CC math when he is in advanced algebra?

Moronic...
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Old January 15th, 2016, 12:24 AM   #4
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High school does not get you ready for the "real" world. As far as math, I haven't needed to use most of the crap they teach you in Algebra. They need to have a mandatory class that shows you how to live on your own, do your taxes, how to be responsible with your money, not a class on how to use something that your never going to use ever in your life.
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Old January 15th, 2016, 01:19 AM   #5
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High school does not get you ready for the "real" world. As far as math, I haven't needed to use most of the crap they teach you in Algebra. They need to have a mandatory class that shows you how to live on your own, do your taxes, how to be responsible with your money, not a class on how to use something that your never going to use ever in your life.
That only works if you have no plans on furthering your education. If you want to attend college you'll need that algerbra and trig to get a degree at the very least. And if you want to go into an engineering field you'll need it even more. (Although what that has to do with driving a train, I have no idea), but even in my case, I had your viewpoint when I left high school, and now from what I understand if I take the skilled trades test at work, there'ssome algebra and trig questions on it. I barely got through algerbra 20 some years ago, never took trig.
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Old January 15th, 2016, 07:39 AM   #6
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I read somewhere CC is to sell more books. Not to teach more effectively, just to help fill somebody's greedy pockets.
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Old January 15th, 2016, 08:50 AM   #7
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High school does not get you ready for the "real" world. As far as math, I haven't needed to use most of the crap they teach you in Algebra. They need to have a mandatory class that shows you how to live on your own, do your taxes, how to be responsible with your money, not a class on how to use something that your never going to use ever in your life.
At the end of the day, almost anyone out there that says they don't use algebra is an idiot.

Not because they say they don't use it, but because they can't figure out even the simplest of things in life because they aren't using it.

Simple things from making a home cooked meal, or cutting the recipe in half or calculating your yearly budget etc. is all based on simple math and algebra.

Start using it, or be one of the idiots.

FYI, Comparing your use of algebra to the question about common core, has nothing in common, clearly you aren't using your reading comprehension skills either.
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Old January 15th, 2016, 08:53 AM   #8
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Debate...why is it good, why is it bad?
I think it is "ok" for some kids, as it helps them to figure things out. It's a pain in the ass for other kids, who "get it" with out needing some weird ass convoluted method.

My son gets math no problem in either method. My daughter does ok with standard math, and is easily confused by common core, but then once she get's it can understand it both ways. Both get high marks (mostly straight A's) in school. 5th grade currently.
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Old January 15th, 2016, 09:03 AM   #9
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FYI, Comparing your use of algebra to the question about common core, has nothing in common, clearly you aren't using your reading comprehension skills either.


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Originally Posted by kickstand View Post
I think it is "ok" for some kids, as it helps them to figure things out. It's a pain in the ass for other kids, who "get it" with out needing some weird ass convoluted method.

My son gets math no problem in either method. My daughter does ok with standard math, and is easily confused by common core, but then once she get's it can understand it both ways. Both get high marks (mostly straight A's) in school. 5th grade currently.
I was one of the kids who "got it" so it was and is hard for me to understand people who don't "get it".

I have to believe that in today's world with all of the technology that the youths have at their disposal that we should be able to come up with some sort of dynamic way that teaches to all children in the way they need to learn. Maybe little Johnny needs a number line, or Susie needs a story problem, or Billie just understands times tables. It seems like there should be a way to teach to each kid without forcing one way or another down their throats.

After hearing all of the parents bitch about the school system and this CC stuff I'm kinda glad I don't have children. I could see becoming the irate parent at school board meetings...and no one needs that.
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Old January 15th, 2016, 09:10 AM   #10
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I have nothing good to say about common core. Let's take a simple math problem and draw many types of shapes that are recognized as place holders in the Math problem. Let's not figure out what the exact answer is to a simple math problem, lets find something close to the answer. Close to the answer is the correct answer.

The whole program is Bulllshit!! I apologize as I live this with my kids daily. The teachers struggle to teach these methods as well. Some of them don't understand the concept and therefore the kids fail the classes. The teachers choose to skip the problematic portions and let the kids fail.

I have gone to great lengths with my oldest to help her through Math classes. Even in 7th grade the students are failing basic math, basic algebra, basic fractions, etc. I am frustrated with the whole curriculum.

Our kids are being "Dumbed Down". With the current program in place, I see this generation of kids failing at life in general.
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Old January 15th, 2016, 09:25 AM   #11
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Debate...why is it good, why is it bad?
Common Core is bad. At a high level it seems good as it is intended to bring all students up to a minimum proficiency in the educational system. Sounds good, but that is the first point of failure. It is the minimum and those that exceed are not challenged. Even before cc it was difficult to keep all kids engaged and challenged at their particular level, but the 2nd biggest issue is is that the scores and progress are used to evaluate the teaching. Not very accurate. Some will do well and others will not. Some learn later in life and that too is ok. It is a fact of life.

When the teachers are rated by the "test" scores (common) of the students, eventually it will turn into a check the box issue more than help the student. It is called self-preservation. Also, some teachers will, just like the students, do better because of their particular skills.

There are a lot of other concerns with cc, but ultimately it starts with good intentions but the desired outcome will be abysmal.

I am sure that my explanation is confusing and lacking, but please know that my teachers would not have wanted to be rated by my test scores.
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Old January 15th, 2016, 09:47 AM   #12
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Our school has been using the Common Core Standard for years, well before it was required. It is NOT a curriculum, and I think that's where the problem lies. Too many schools have poorly implemented curriculum to meet the standard.

I've never (NEVER) seen any of the stupid crap people post on Facebook. Everything our kids have brought home has made sense. Some seemed clumsy, but I eventually realized it was about the thought process, and not so much about the math. I was one of those kids that breezed through math, and even did decent coasting through Calc 2 at MSU.

That said, over time, I started to do math in my head in a very different way and have found that's is precisely what the standard is pressing for. We were taught formulas that we plug numbers into to arrive at the solution. Common Core is intended to foster more abstract thinking and problem solving. It's about WHY the math works, rather than methods for simply solving. I still remember sine, cosine, and tangent, and I'm sure I can still use them properly with a calculator. I remember learning a bit about why they work, but I don't remember any of it. I bet my son will understand why they work though.

I don't add 32587 and 67127 in head head by adding digits and carrying numbers. I blow it apart in my head. 99,000 + 714 = 99714. I just made those numbers up, and I can't say it's harder to add the traditional way, but this is faster in *my* head. That's just a simple example of how they approach addition now. I'm positive our son would have excelled under the old standard, but I bet he would get the answer faster than me. He often does, because he was taught to think differently, and it's more instinctive to him.

FWIW, he's 10, in 5th grade, excelling at 6th grade math, and doing geometry and algebra. Obviously, it works for him. We haven't heard complaints from other parents in our school (although I'm sure there are some.) But I do believe our school has developed a better curriculum than most. They also do a lot more to tailor toward different types of children though, which leads them to the one mark against them from the state... "Too large of a gap from the highest to the lowest performers." They say, essentially, to hell with that. We're not going to hold back high performers, just to stay within the state's criteria. They will group the high performers together, and often have them working separately, while the teacher focuses on the rest of the class. And they will have high performers help lower performers, which seems to help both kids.

What I don't think is fair is how they rolled it out 100%, throughout K-12. It's not fair to take a 6th grader who has learned our way, and expect them to pick up where children who've gone through a Common Core curriculum from K-5.
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Old January 15th, 2016, 09:50 AM   #13
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Our school has been using the Common Core Standard for years, well before it was required. It is NOT a curriculum, and I think that's where the problem lies. Too many schools have poorly implemented curriculum to meet the standard.

I've never (NEVER) seen any of the stupid crap people post on Facebook. Everything our kids have brought home has made sense. Some seemed clumsy, but I eventually realized it was about the thought process, and not so much about the math. I was one of those kids that breezed through math, and even did decent coasting through Calc 2 at MSU.

That said, over time, I started to do math in my head in a very different way and have found that's is precisely what the standard is pressing for. We were taught formulas that we plug numbers into to arrive at the solution. Common Core is intended to foster more abstract thinking and problem solving. It's about WHY the math works, rather than methods for simply solving. I still remember sine, cosine, and tangent, and I'm sure I can still use them properly with a calculator. I remember learning a bit about why they work, but I don't remember any of it. I bet my son will understand why they work though.

I don't add 32587 and 67127 in head head by adding digits and carrying numbers. I blow it apart in my head. 99,000 + 714 = 99714. I just made those numbers up, and I can't say it's harder to add the traditional way, but this is faster in *my* head. That's just a simple example of how they approach addition now. I'm positive our son would have excelled under the old standard, but I bet he would get the answer faster than me. He often does, because he was taught to think differently, and it's more instinctive to him.

FWIW, he's 10, in 5th grade, excelling at 6th grade math, and doing geometry and algebra. Obviously, it works for him. We haven't heard complaints from other parents in our school (although I'm sure there are some.) But I do believe our school has developed a better curriculum than most. They also do a lot more to tailor toward different types of children though, which leads them to the one mark against them from the state... "Too large of a gap from the highest to the lowest performers." They say, essentially, to hell with that. We're not going to hold back high performers, just to stay within the state's criteria. They will group the high performers together, and often have them working separately, while the teacher focuses on the rest of the class. And they will have high performers help lower performers, which seems to help both kids.

What I don't think is fair is how they rolled it out 100%, throughout K-12. It's not fair to take a 6th grader who has learned our way, and expect them to pick up where children who've gone through a Common Core curriculum from K-5.
This is a good post. Common core is NOT nearly as confusing as those posting on facebook make it seem, it's tricky at first, but it IS a good way to look at math from time to time. Your example is a good one. It's how most people who are good at mental math were already doing it. Now they're just trying to do it on paper and many teachers have struggled with implementing it.

mschaffer also makes a good point, we should not force kids to learn math any which way, we should show them options and allow them to work the problem out on paper however it works for them and show the teacher their work so that they show understanding of the problem at hand.
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Old January 15th, 2016, 09:57 AM   #14
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Schools should be privatized. As usual our government appears to be trying to destroy our country by any means necessary.
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Old January 15th, 2016, 10:10 AM   #15
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Our school has been using the Common Core Standard for years, well before it was required. It is NOT a curriculum, and I think that's where the problem lies. Too many schools have poorly implemented curriculum to meet the standard.

I've never (NEVER) seen any of the stupid crap people post on Facebook. Everything our kids have brought home has made sense. Some seemed clumsy, but I eventually realized it was about the thought process, and not so much about the math. I was one of those kids that breezed through math, and even did decent coasting through Calc 2 at MSU.

That said, over time, I started to do math in my head in a very different way and have found that's is precisely what the standard is pressing for. We were taught formulas that we plug numbers into to arrive at the solution. Common Core is intended to foster more abstract thinking and problem solving. It's about WHY the math works, rather than methods for simply solving. I still remember sine, cosine, and tangent, and I'm sure I can still use them properly with a calculator. I remember learning a bit about why they work, but I don't remember any of it. I bet my son will understand why they work though.

I don't add 32587 and 67127 in head head by adding digits and carrying numbers. I blow it apart in my head. 99,000 + 714 = 99714. I just made those numbers up, and I can't say it's harder to add the traditional way, but this is faster in *my* head. That's just a simple example of how they approach addition now. I'm positive our son would have excelled under the old standard, but I bet he would get the answer faster than me. He often does, because he was taught to think differently, and it's more instinctive to him.

FWIW, he's 10, in 5th grade, excelling at 6th grade math, and doing geometry and algebra. Obviously, it works for him. We haven't heard complaints from other parents in our school (although I'm sure there are some.) But I do believe our school has developed a better curriculum than most. They also do a lot more to tailor toward different types of children though, which leads them to the one mark against them from the state... "Too large of a gap from the highest to the lowest performers." They say, essentially, to hell with that. We're not going to hold back high performers, just to stay within the state's criteria. They will group the high performers together, and often have them working separately, while the teacher focuses on the rest of the class. And they will have high performers help lower performers, which seems to help both kids.

What I don't think is fair is how they rolled it out 100%, throughout K-12. It's not fair to take a 6th grader who has learned our way, and expect them to pick up where children who've gone through a Common Core curriculum from K-5.
This...

Also, M-STEP is the test that replaces the 44-year-old MEAP test. MEAP was not online (M-STEP is taken by students on-line) and MEAP measured the previous state standards. M-STEP (our "common core") started officially Spring 2015. The M-STEP assessment includes Michigan-created content, as well as content developed by the multi-state Smarter Balanced Assessment Consortium. Educators from Michigan public schools helped develop and write test content that appears on M-STEP.

Comparing ourselves in a wider, multi-state assessment is a good thing in my opinion.

The biggest challenge for the schools was getting ready for the state mandated on-line testing. There was a lot of in-fighting in Lansing and many schools needed to scramble in order to have the technology in place to appropriately administer the tests.

There are also additional costs when schools consider the appropriate K-12 curriculum that is necessary to help kids become successful with the new assessment.

AND... the per-pupal funding (a schools primary income) has remained the same, with Michigan as a whole loosing students.

It's a much more complex issue than Facebook would lead you to believe....
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Old January 15th, 2016, 10:19 AM   #16
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From my experience I have two friends that are teachers in Howell and they both fully support CC education. The way they explained it to me is that by doing CC here it kind of standardizes some parts of the educational process where if a parent moved to Seattle the kid would be on a similar path there.

I took AP Chem, Math, English in high school and got straight As. When I went to college I got my Azz handed to me trying to get my engineering degree. The first year I felt so unprepared. If CC can help kids be better prepared for college then I am all for it. I just wanted to get peoples opinions on here as to understand why some people get so butt hurt by CC education. I still dont understand what the issue is. I would need to see some first hand examples of education used to be taught and what CC does.

IF CC prepares kids better for college then I cant see it being a bad thing. With that being said my ME degree did not really prepare me to be a good engineer, it just gave me a piece of paper. College doesn't prepare you to be good at your job, experience and talent does that.
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Old January 15th, 2016, 11:04 AM   #17
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I took AP Chem, Math, English in high school and got straight As. When I went to college I got my Azz handed to me trying to get my engineering degree. The first year I felt so unprepared.
I took AP Calc, but when I took the placement test at MSU, I had no idea how to calculate the cosine or something without a calculator. That and more was humbling. They recommended I take Calc again. (In retrospect, that may have been a mistake... I was bored, even if it was true college level Calc vs. High School AP Calc.)
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Old January 15th, 2016, 07:24 PM   #18
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It's how most people who are good at mental math were already doing it. Now they're just trying to do it on paper and many teachers have struggled with implementing it.
From what I've seen on Facebook I think that may be part of the problem. Presenting a mental method on paper probably confuses many people.

I hated math when I was in elementary school, because it was always about how quickly you could write down what you memorized. Once I got to algebra and trig I enjoyed it because it was about figuring things out. Never got the hang of calculus though, which is why I'm not an engineer.
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Old January 15th, 2016, 11:05 PM   #19
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Old January 15th, 2016, 11:47 PM   #20
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