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Old March 23rd, 2009, 03:31 PM   #101
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The egg without the sperm, or the sperm without the egg, dose not constitute human life.
Say's you, I for one like committing murder in the shower. Bwahahahahaha!!!!!!!
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Old March 23rd, 2009, 04:49 PM   #102
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it's "embryonic", not "baby". Also, this is like a glimpse to the future. We don't know yet what can be done with embryonic stem cells, if something comes of it, then that's where the cartoon kicks in.
that cartoon does not play into the future, it plays into the man's present dilemma.

the fact remains that the whole situation is unrealistic, because it would only be adult stem cells that would have a snowball's chance in hell of helping the poor chap.
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Old March 23rd, 2009, 06:12 PM   #103
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These people have rights that are superior to those rights that a group of cells have. Even if you believe that life has started at this point, this is the only right these cells have. the people you referenced have the right to life but they also have the right to autonomy, happiness, and every other right you enjoy today. you are not comparing apples to apples
This seriously makes no sense to me. I told you I consider that "group of cells" a human being and you come back with this?

I disagree with you. I think that "group of cells" has the same rights as other human beings because it IS a human being.

That "group of cells" certainly has a helluva lot more rights in this country than a pack of illegal aliens whose ass our fucked up government is more than happy to kiss.

That "group of cells" is more than a blob for you to look at under a microscope. I choose not to argue this any longer. Like I said, these are my core beliefs and I will not change my mind AND I would be willing to fight to defend those beliefs. Those core beliefs also pertain to my faith in God Almighty, Jesus Christ our Saviour and the Holy Bible as well.
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Old March 23rd, 2009, 08:38 PM   #104
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This seriously makes no sense to me. I told you I consider that "group of cells" a human being and you come back with this?

I disagree with you. I think that "group of cells" has the same rights as other human beings because it IS a human being.

That "group of cells" certainly has a helluva lot more rights in this country than a pack of illegal aliens whose ass our fucked up government is more than happy to kiss.

That "group of cells" is more than a blob for you to look at under a microscope. I choose not to argue this any longer. Like I said, these are my core beliefs and I will not change my mind AND I would be willing to fight to defend those beliefs. Those core beliefs also pertain to my faith in God Almighty, Jesus Christ our Saviour and the Holy Bible as well.
I actually conceeded the point for argument that these cells are human life. It was a few posts back, but I still came to my conclusion. I dont want you to change your views, as that is not the point of this discourse. At the onset of this discussion I knew we would reach this point. The point where all ethical debates end up. If you enter a discussion with the idea that you will change someone to your belief or ideal you are sadly mistaken. I guess the point is to defend your position and let others defend theirs in order to reach a reflective equlibrium within ones self. A person cannot fully believe something without considering both sides of an issue.

What I meant by apples to apples is the amount of rights a person has at the different stages of development. The fertilized egg has lower number of rights vs the 20 year old. this is regardless of the ethical weight you place on them you have less things to place weight on with the zygote.
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Old March 23rd, 2009, 09:12 PM   #105
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I actually conceeded the point for argument that these cells are human life. It was a few posts back, but I still came to my conclusion. I dont want you to change your views, as that is not the point of this discourse. At the onset of this discussion I knew we would reach this point. The point where all ethical debates end up. If you enter a discussion with the idea that you will change someone to your belief or ideal you are sadly mistaken. I guess the point is to defend your position and let others defend theirs in order to reach a reflective equlibrium within ones self. A person cannot fully believe something without considering both sides of an issue.

What I meant by apples to apples is the amount of rights a person has at the different stages of development. The fertilized egg has lower number of rights vs the 20 year old. this is regardless of the ethical weight you place on them you have less things to place weight on with the zygote.

So I have more rights than you because I'm at a latter stage of human development??????

Sorry but thats actually laughable.....
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Old March 23rd, 2009, 09:31 PM   #106
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So I have more rights than you because I'm at a latter stage of human development??????

Sorry but thats actually laughable.....
No, ethically we are at the same stage of human development. Conceding that the zygote has a right to life, what other right does it have? It cannot have any other rights because they are contingent on the fact that in order to enjoy these rights the being must be cognicent (sp), which the zygote is not.

A six year old child does not have the same amount of rights as I do. This is solely contingent on this organisms congnitive ability.
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Old March 23rd, 2009, 09:42 PM   #107
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that cartoon does not play into the future, it plays into the man's present dilemma.

the fact remains that the whole situation is unrealistic, because it would only be adult stem cells that would have a snowball's chance in hell of helping the poor chap.
Why do you say that?

A more correct term instead of adult stem cells and embryonic stem cells are Non-embryonic and Embryonic. The former do not account for cord cells.

The whole idea in this debate is that embryonic stem cells are totipotent which means that they can differentiate into any cell type (i.e. nerve cells) where Non- Embryonic may not, since they are pluripotent,(they cannot differentiate into ANY cells just many.

which brings me to my original question why would only non-embryonic stem cells help this man?
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Old March 23rd, 2009, 09:49 PM   #108
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No, ethically we are at the same stage of human development. Conceding that the zygote has a right to life, what other right does it have? It cannot have any other rights because they are contingent on the fact that in order to enjoy these rights the being must be cognicent (sp), which the zygote is not.

A six year old child does not have the same amount of rights as I do. This is solely contingent on this organisms congnitive ability.


I'am amazed that in this day and age someone would blatantly promote stripping another of certain rights. Your arguement relative to cognitive ability holds no water, since it revolves around your sole opinion as to your current cognitive ability being superior to another...

If we where to adhere to this argument we could then make the deduction that a person of greater height, or more hair, higher I.Q., wealthier, or different race, could also be afforded more rights than another....

Can you say racist, or biggot, maybe dictator, perhaps tyrant....

I kinda thought we lived in, a country at least, that promotes equal rights, you are saying the exact opposite of that....shame on you


Let me list some of my opinions as to why I have more rights than you...I think you would disagree...
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Old March 23rd, 2009, 09:55 PM   #109
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Hey don't worry an embyo or fetus is not alive...

Its not human...

What chunk you want for your reserch or cure...

Just look, it's a big gob of cells....




SERIOUSLY???? This picture is just fuckin dumb man, And not only that but ruthless. I lost my child 4-10-08 at birth its one of the hardest things to overcome and just to see somthing posted like that just pisses me off. I mean WTF dude. not trying to be a dick about this stuff, bury your child and tell me you wanna see stuff like that!!!!!!!
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Old March 23rd, 2009, 10:04 PM   #110
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Who do I talk to about all of my brain cells that were just murdered reading Mr. Toes' posts? Where are my rights?
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Old March 23rd, 2009, 10:05 PM   #111
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I'am amazed that in this day and age someone would blatantly promote stripping another of certain rights. Your arguement relative to cognitive ability holds no water, since it revolves around your sole opinion as to your current cognitive ability being superior to another...

If we where to adhere to this argument we could then make the deduction that a person of greater height, or more hair, higher I.Q., wealthier, or different race, could also be afforded more rights than another....

Can you say racist, or biggot, maybe dictator, perhaps tyrant....

I kinda thought we lived in, a country at least, that promotes equal rights, you are saying the exact opposite of that....shame on you


Let me list some of my opinions as to why I have more rights than you...I think you would disagree...
Once again, You missed my point. I dont care if you agree with me but please get the point at least.

Lets take our six year old. And, because it is easy, he goes to the hospital for treatment because he is sick. Who makes his decisions in terms of his medical care? His parents, He has no autonomy. I have autonomy as well as every other right he has so therefore I have more rights than him.

This is not the case with you and I we both meet the requirements for autonomy he does not.

As for your claim that this is racist, biggoted (sp), or leads to a dictatorship, etc. It is laughable, again you miss the argument.
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Old March 23rd, 2009, 10:07 PM   #112
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Who do I talk to about all of my brain cells that were just murdered reading Mr. Toes' posts? Where are my rights?
You should start a movement.
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Old March 23rd, 2009, 10:09 PM   #113
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Who do I talk to about all of my brain cells that were just murdered reading Mr. Toes' posts? Where are my rights?
they don't matter because you have your life...........
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Old March 23rd, 2009, 10:20 PM   #114
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SERIOUSLY???? This picture is just fuckin dumb man, And not only that but ruthless. I lost my child 4-10-08 at birth its one of the hardest things to overcome and just to see somthing posted like that just pisses me off. I mean WTF dude. not trying to be a dick about this stuff, bury your child and tell me you wanna see stuff like that!!!!!!!
Hard to imagine someone would choose to do that isn't it...

I never want to see stuff like that, and i don't think anybody has a right to do anything like that....

Nobody wants to look at pictures like that because it takes the sterility away from what is actually done....
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Old March 23rd, 2009, 10:28 PM   #115
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Hard to imagine someone would choose to do that isn't it...

I never want to see stuff like that, and i don't think anybody has a right to do anything like that....

Nobody wants to look at pictures like that because it takes the sterility away from what is actually done....
Not for embryonic stem cell research. to say differently is to be misinformed. That is what this debate is about, stem cell research.
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Old March 23rd, 2009, 10:45 PM   #116
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So I have more rights than you because I'm at a latter stage of human development??????

Sorry but thats actually laughable.....
laughable? hmm i have a HYPOTHETICAL situation for you to laugh off by YOUR reasonings...

lets say HYPOTHETICALLY a women gets raped...
HYPOTHETICALLY she wants to have an abortion for whatever reasons she believes
HYPOTHETICALLY someone like yourself, who takes all living rights, freedoms, will, and choice from the UNWILLINGLY impregnated, just happens to be in charge and won't allow it...
HYPOTHETICALLY come birth time the mother dies from the FORCED delivery...


what then Mr. Ruler of all life?

just curious as to your thoughts on this since you clearly stated that she has no more rights than the UNBORN child...

if a child is to threaten HER life, even if it is a minimal chance, what is her say in the matter... through your eyes?

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Old March 23rd, 2009, 11:04 PM   #117
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Hard to imagine someone would choose to do that isn't it...

I never want to see stuff like that, and i don't think anybody has a right to do anything like that....

Nobody wants to look at pictures like that because it takes the sterility away from what is actually done....
I wasnt trying to be a dick in anyway possible but it was my first daughter and to have that happen was life changing to realize how short life really can be..... Stuff like this is just emotionaly sensitive to me, when i burried my daughter it was the hardest thing to do but that only time i got to really thinkin about life..... But if i ruined your guys's post in anyway im sorry dont mind me its just a sensitive subject.....
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Old March 23rd, 2009, 11:16 PM   #118
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I wasnt trying to be a dick in anyway possible but it was my first daughter and to have that happen was life changing to realize how short life really can be..... Stuff like this is just emotionaly sensitive to me, when i burried my daughter it was the hardest thing to do but that only time i got to really thinkin about life..... But if i ruined your guys's post in anyway im sorry dont mind me its just a sensitive subject.....
Toes ruined the thread posting that. You could not do it anymore harm if you tried.
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Old March 24th, 2009, 06:17 AM   #119
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I kind of feel like I started this, but I didn't mean to start an abortion thread, i meant to post another funny picture
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Old March 24th, 2009, 07:33 AM   #120
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laughable? hmm i have a HYPOTHETICAL situation for you to laugh off by YOUR reasonings...

lets say HYPOTHETICALLY a women gets raped...
HYPOTHETICALLY she wants to have an abortion for whatever reasons she believes
HYPOTHETICALLY someone like yourself, who takes all living rights, freedoms, will, and choice from the UNWILLINGLY impregnated, just happens to be in charge and won't allow it...
HYPOTHETICALLY come birth time the mother dies from the FORCED delivery...


what then Mr. Ruler of all life?

just curious as to your thoughts on this since you clearly stated that she has no more rights than the UNBORN child...

if a child is to threaten HER life, even if it is a minimal chance, what is her say in the matter... through your eyes?
Hypothetically your placing life as the most important right of all, the only difference is you don't give that right to the baby...

Hypothetically we also know you have said there is a chance the mother could die, but we know we are going to kill the baby...

your supporting an action that, not hypothetically, but always ends by killing someone. Give me another example of you supporting certain death to a person who has done nothing wrong, or is not a party to an action...
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