Bible loophole (another stupid abortion thread) - Page 5 - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest

Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

Politics, Government, or Religion Chat Bring your flamesuit!

greatlakes4x4.com is the premier Great Lakes 4x4 Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old March 23rd, 2009, 09:57 AM   #81
Mr Toes - R.I.P.
November 7, 1958 - July 22, 2011
 
Mr Toes - R.I.P.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-29-07
Location: Belleville Mi
Posts: 4,727
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepinRRT View Post
These people have rights that are superior to those rights that a group of cells have. Even if you believe that life has started at this point, this is the only right these cells have. the people you referenced have the right to life but they also have the right to autonomy, happiness, and every other right you enjoy today. you are not comparing apples to apples


Again the very foundation of any right is life...All the other rights you are talking about mean nothing when somebody kills you...

Take away liberty, happiness, or any thing else and I'm still alive and I can pursue those rights, take away life and you take away everthing...All those rights are gone..
Mr Toes - R.I.P. is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old March 23rd, 2009, 09:59 AM   #82
Mr Toes - R.I.P.
November 7, 1958 - July 22, 2011
 
Mr Toes - R.I.P.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-29-07
Location: Belleville Mi
Posts: 4,727
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepinRRT View Post
These people have rights that are superior to those rights that a group of cells have. Even if you believe that life has started at this point, this is the only right these cells have. the people you referenced have the right to life but they also have the right to autonomy, happiness, and every other right you enjoy today. you are not comparing apples to apples


You have just put other rights over life itself....That explains alot.....What else is more valuble than life in your eye's.....
Mr Toes - R.I.P. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2009, 10:06 AM   #83
jeepinRRT
Senior Member
 
jeepinRRT's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-13-08
Location: Grand Rapids,MI
Posts: 3,627
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

You not responded to my equating this to slavery. What say you on this?

my life is very valuable to me and so are the lives of others. however there is a line we must not cross when it comes to violationg EVERY other right. If we do this we as I stated earlier advocate slavery
jeepinRRT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2009, 10:09 AM   #84
Mr Toes - R.I.P.
November 7, 1958 - July 22, 2011
 
Mr Toes - R.I.P.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-29-07
Location: Belleville Mi
Posts: 4,727
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepinRRT View Post
The time does not matter, but lets just pretend it does. do the mothers responsibilities to the child end at birth? no they only increase.

Continuing with the idea that time does not matter. Would it then be ok for me to enslave you for a week or month an hour, in order for you to live?

First off if time dosen't matter than a mother, or father has the right to end their clhids life whenever they see fit, If time dosen't matter, and it dosen't ,thats why you can't kill somebody at anytime of their life because you feel like it.....Thats not your right...

At birth the mother has the right to not continue any responsibility for raising a child, she has a choice and now you have another human, the baby, that also has choices, liberty, right to happiness ect....

If enslaving me for a week or nine months was a matter of life or death to you yes it would be fine, because 9 months of my life is not worth as much as 70 years of your life.

Is nine months of your life worth more than your fiances entire life....

How about your ex girl friend, or someone you don't like...
Mr Toes - R.I.P. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2009, 10:14 AM   #85
jeepinRRT
Senior Member
 
jeepinRRT's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-13-08
Location: Grand Rapids,MI
Posts: 3,627
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Toes View Post
First off if time dosen't matter than a mother, or father has the right to end their clhids life whenever they see fit, If time dosen't matter, and it dosen't ,thats why you can't kill somebody at anytime of their life because you feel like it.....Thats not your right...

At birth the mother has the right to not continue any responsibility for raising a child, she has a choice and now you have another human, the baby, that also has choices, liberty, right to happiness ect....

If enslaving me for a week or nine months was a matter of life or death to you yes it would be fine, because 9 months of my life is not worth as much as 70 years of your life.

Is nine months of your life worth more than your fiances entire life....

How about your ex girl friend, or someone you don't like...
I am not necessarily talking about you being enslaved for me to live as much as I am talking about you being enslaved for your right to live. This is what you stated, the "right to life trumps all other rights". By not allowing anything else, this is the road to travel down.
jeepinRRT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2009, 10:16 AM   #86
Mr Toes - R.I.P.
November 7, 1958 - July 22, 2011
 
Mr Toes - R.I.P.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-29-07
Location: Belleville Mi
Posts: 4,727
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepinRRT View Post
You not responded to my equating this to slavery. What say you on this?

my life is very valuable to me and so are the lives of others. however there is a line we must not cross when it comes to violationg EVERY other right. If we do this we as I stated earlier advocate slavery

You talk like a pregnancy is solitary confinement in a goolog. Is it your position that a pregnancy strips each and every right a person has for the rest of their exsistance....

How about if you had the T.V. taken away for nine months, do you think this has a greater value that a human life...

So we have no mistakes about anything, Ibelive if all your rights where stripped from you for 9 months in exchange for a human life that would be a bargin....Thats each and every single smallest to largest right you have....Gone for nine months and somebody lives.....yep, thats a deal.
Mr Toes - R.I.P. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2009, 10:18 AM   #87
jeepinRRT
Senior Member
 
jeepinRRT's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-13-08
Location: Grand Rapids,MI
Posts: 3,627
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Toes View Post
First off if time dosen't matter than a mother, or father has the right to end their clhids life whenever they see fit, If time dosen't matter, and it dosen't ,thats why you can't kill somebody at anytime of their life because you feel like it.....Thats not your right...

At birth the mother has the right to not continue any responsibility for raising a child, she has a choice and now you have another human, the baby, that also has choices, liberty, right to happiness ect....

If enslaving me for a week or nine months was a matter of life or death to you yes it would be fine, because 9 months of my life is not worth as much as 70 years of your life.

Is nine months of your life worth more than your fiances entire life....

How about your ex girl friend, or someone you don't like...
Ethically and morally you are not obligated to make that sacrifice for me, you are only permitted to do so. Which brings me back to choice, not lack of choice. Only choice guarantees the most rights
jeepinRRT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2009, 10:30 AM   #88
jeepinRRT
Senior Member
 
jeepinRRT's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-13-08
Location: Grand Rapids,MI
Posts: 3,627
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Toes View Post
You talk like a pregnancy is solitary confinement in a goolog. Is it your position that a pregnancy strips each and every right a person has for the rest of their exsistance....

How about if you had the T.V. taken away for nine months, do you think this has a greater value that a human life...

So we have no mistakes about anything, Ibelive if all your rights where stripped from you for 9 months in exchange for a human life that would be a bargin....Thats each and every single smallest to largest right you have....Gone for nine months and somebody lives.....yep, thats a deal.
IS the rape victim much different from the person in solitary confinement? I think not.

With your reasoning This is the outcome......... I am now exercising your right to life by not murdering you. Therefore, you must be my slave for ten years. Degraded, dehumanized, and shackled to my basement wall and tortured by the worst means you can immagine........Does this sound like a good thing? what kind of damage could that do to a person? what type of society would that result in? weather you would or would not do this is not the question. The question is should this be a choice we have to make? This is a coice we have to make if we regard the "right to life" as the trump card of rights.
jeepinRRT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2009, 10:46 AM   #89
shaker
In the band!
 
Join Date: 09-10-06
Location: West Branch
Posts: 1,070
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

You know the worst part about abortion. Just think of how many innocent half developed people there must be running around in heaven. That is going to be kinda freaky to see, I can't wait.
shaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2009, 10:48 AM   #90
jeepinRRT
Senior Member
 
jeepinRRT's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-13-08
Location: Grand Rapids,MI
Posts: 3,627
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shaker View Post
You know the worst part about abortion. Just think of how many innocent half developed people there must be running around in heaven. That is going to be kinda freaky to see, I can't wait.
you forgot about the microscopic balls of cells floating around and talking to people

But seriously, I never thought of that.....
jeepinRRT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2009, 10:49 AM   #91
Mr Toes - R.I.P.
November 7, 1958 - July 22, 2011
 
Mr Toes - R.I.P.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-29-07
Location: Belleville Mi
Posts: 4,727
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepinRRT View Post
I am not necessarily talking about you being enslaved for me to live as much as I am talking about you being enslaved for your right to live. This is what you stated, the "right to life trumps all other rights". By not allowing anything else, this is the road to travel down.
I lost you, how did we get to me being enslaved for me to live.
Mr Toes - R.I.P. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2009, 10:53 AM   #92
Mr Toes - R.I.P.
November 7, 1958 - July 22, 2011
 
Mr Toes - R.I.P.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-29-07
Location: Belleville Mi
Posts: 4,727
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepinRRT View Post
Ethically and morally you are not obligated to make that sacrifice for me, you are only permitted to do so. Which brings me back to choice, not lack of choice. Only choice guarantees the most rights

Your exactly wrong, ethics and morals demand you make that sacrifice...Which brings me to choice, nobody has the right to chose if you live or die, because this garantees you will be stripped of every right you could have....
Mr Toes - R.I.P. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2009, 11:03 AM   #93
Mr Toes - R.I.P.
November 7, 1958 - July 22, 2011
 
Mr Toes - R.I.P.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-29-07
Location: Belleville Mi
Posts: 4,727
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepinRRT View Post
IS the rape victim much different from the person in solitary confinement? I think not.

With your reasoning This is the outcome......... I am now exercising your right to life by not murdering you. Therefore, you must be my slave for ten years. Degraded, dehumanized, and shackled to my basement wall and tortured by the worst means you can immagine........Does this sound like a good thing? what kind of damage could that do to a person? what type of society would that result in? weather you would or would not do this is not the question. The question is should this be a choice we have to make? This is a coice we have to make if we regard the "right to life" as the trump card of rights.
So if I take care of a closed head injury patient for 9 months 24 hrs a day knowing it will give them an entire life, thats the same as solitary confinement, or being your slave for ten years, degraded, dehumanized, shackled to your basement wall and tourtured...I don't think so....

How about I'm given the choice that I know if I care for the closed head injury patient at the end of nine months they will have a 70 or 80 year life in front of them, or I can inject them with a salt solution that will burn them to death so I don't have to be bothered... We will call this right to choose, choose weather I want to kill a person or not, thats what it is no matter what your reasoning it's a choice to kill a human being...I don't go along with it.....
Mr Toes - R.I.P. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2009, 11:08 AM   #94
Mr Toes - R.I.P.
November 7, 1958 - July 22, 2011
 
Mr Toes - R.I.P.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-29-07
Location: Belleville Mi
Posts: 4,727
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepinRRT View Post
IS the rape victim much different from the person in solitary confinement? I think not.

With your reasoning This is the outcome......... I am now exercising your right to life by not murdering you. Therefore, you must be my slave for ten years. Degraded, dehumanized, and shackled to my basement wall and tortured by the worst means you can immagine........Does this sound like a good thing? what kind of damage could that do to a person? what type of society would that result in? weather you would or would not do this is not the question. The question is should this be a choice we have to make? This is a coice we have to make if we regard the "right to life" as the trump card of rights.

Your kidding right...Is the soldier that has had his arms and legs blown off blinded, lost his hearing and paralized from the neck down, the same as the soldier that pinched his finger in the action of his M-16....come on get real
Mr Toes - R.I.P. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2009, 11:13 AM   #95
shaker
In the band!
 
Join Date: 09-10-06
Location: West Branch
Posts: 1,070
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default Hey Toes

How many times can you post in a row without anyone replying to you, before you are talking to yourself?
shaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2009, 11:20 AM   #96
Mr Toes - R.I.P.
November 7, 1958 - July 22, 2011
 
Mr Toes - R.I.P.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-29-07
Location: Belleville Mi
Posts: 4,727
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shaker View Post
How many times can you post in a row without anyone replying to you, before you are talking to yourself?
Alot....lol
Mr Toes - R.I.P. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2009, 12:10 PM   #97
jeepinRRT
Senior Member
 
jeepinRRT's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-13-08
Location: Grand Rapids,MI
Posts: 3,627
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Toes View Post
Your exactly wrong, ethics and morals demand you make that sacrifice...Which brings me to choice, nobody has the right to chose if you live or die, because this garantees you will be stripped of every right you could have....
Have you ever really studied ethics? I am guessing no. If you have you would not have made the statement asserting that ethics demands you make this sacrifice, it does not.
jeepinRRT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2009, 02:06 PM   #98
Miffy
Senior Member
 
Miffy's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: My home
Posts: 5,826
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Send a message via Yahoo to Miffy
Default

I think we should turn this talk away from egg's and turn to sperm. what about all of the sperm that is waisted?

Miffy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2009, 02:37 PM   #99
Mr Toes - R.I.P.
November 7, 1958 - July 22, 2011
 
Mr Toes - R.I.P.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-29-07
Location: Belleville Mi
Posts: 4,727
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffy View Post
I think we should turn this talk away from egg's and turn to sperm. what about all of the sperm that is waisted?

The egg without the sperm, or the sperm without the egg, dose not constitute human life.
Mr Toes - R.I.P. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2009, 03:09 PM   #100
Mr Toes - R.I.P.
November 7, 1958 - July 22, 2011
 
Mr Toes - R.I.P.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-29-07
Location: Belleville Mi
Posts: 4,727
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepinRRT View Post
Have you ever really studied ethics? I am guessing no. If you have you would not have made the statement asserting that ethics demands you make this sacrifice, it does not.
Ethics demand that you have a dicipline dealing with good and bad, and a moral obligation and duty for what is good.

Since we have been using it in the plural form it would become a set of moral principles, or a therory or sytem of moral values. For example Christian ethics, or old fashion work ethics.

We have used this in the form which would dictate a guiding philosophy, or consciousness of moral importance, such as the right to live.

Ethics as plural can also constitute a moral issue, or issues, or aspects as what is right, thats why you have the debate of the ethics of abortion.

Any splitting of hairs on definitions or precieved definitions of words will not change when life starts or the fact that life is the foundation of all our rights.

Give yourself another 30 or so years and life will teach you more than school has....
Mr Toes - R.I.P. is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:26 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright 2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Page generated in 0.36151 seconds with 80 queries