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Old March 21st, 2009, 09:17 PM   #61
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Actually Science can be used inside of Religion. And Religion can "evolve" just as well as Science. If it couldn't then it wouldn't be around. Science is just a way to prove what is already known by the people that believe in Christianity. I know that God created the world, I know he created me, I know he created the cells that I'm so Fascinated with right now. Science just backs up what I have already been told through God's word.

Science trys to answer the Particulars of life while Religion usually answers the Universals. I personally find that knowing the Universal truths in life makes the Particulars fall into place. I enjoy this way of life. I'm glad you can enjoy the way you live.
How do you "know" that god created the world? And if you "know" this to be fact, why are religions referred to as FAITH and not FACT?? Do you "know" how many people of other religions also claim to "know" something that cannot be proven? Are their religions FAITH instead of FACT and yours the actual FACT instead of a FAITH?

What you do that I do not is, claim to "know" things as a FACT that you simply cannot establish as such. I dont claim that what we know about the way things work is the end all as does major religion. Hypothesies are meant to be tested, proved and disproved. Einstein once said that you could do a million tests of a hypothesis to prove it right but you only need one to prove it wrong. This is the tentative nature of science, it is always testing itself and evolving from day to day, discovery to discovery, disproof to disproof.

My point is that you nor no man can stand on a chair, on a stage, in a field, or sit behind a computer or in front of a camera and proclaim to "know" the FACT in this debate. The same holds true for anyone that holds the negative position to your affirmative. The sooner we all understand that the better.

Disclaimer- none of the prior statements are meant to be as a personal attack or flaming. If they come across that way I apologize, however I stand by the premises presented.
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Old March 22nd, 2009, 05:38 AM   #62
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How do you "know" that god created the world? And if you "know" this to be fact, why are religions referred to as FAITH and not FACT?? Do you "know" how many people of other religions also claim to "know" something that cannot be proven? Are their religions FAITH instead of FACT and yours the actual FACT instead of a FAITH?

What you do that I do not is, claim to "know" things as a FACT that you simply cannot establish as such. I dont claim that what we know about the way things work is the end all as does major religion. Hypothesies are meant to be tested, proved and disproved. Einstein once said that you could do a million tests of a hypothesis to prove it right but you only need one to prove it wrong. This is the tentative nature of science, it is always testing itself and evolving from day to day, discovery to discovery, disproof to disproof.

My point is that you nor no man can stand on a chair, on a stage, in a field, or sit behind a computer or in front of a camera and proclaim to "know" the FACT in this debate. The same holds true for anyone that holds the negative position to your affirmative. The sooner we all understand that the better.

Disclaimer- none of the prior statements are meant to be as a personal attack or flaming. If they come across that way I apologize, however I stand by the premises presented.
(even though you spelled hypothesis wrong)
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Old March 22nd, 2009, 07:08 AM   #63
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(even though you spelled hypothesis wrong)
I was going for the plural tense and didnt feel like looking it up
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Old March 22nd, 2009, 05:56 PM   #64
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How do you "know" that god created the world? And if you "know" this to be fact, why are religions referred to as FAITH and not FACT?? Do you "know" how many people of other religions also claim to "know" something that cannot be proven? Are their religions FAITH instead of FACT and yours the actual FACT instead of a FAITH?

What you do that I do not is, claim to "know" things as a FACT that you simply cannot establish as such. I dont claim that what we know about the way things work is the end all as does major religion. Hypothesies are meant to be tested, proved and disproved. Einstein once said that you could do a million tests of a hypothesis to prove it right but you only need one to prove it wrong. This is the tentative nature of science, it is always testing itself and evolving from day to day, discovery to discovery, disproof to disproof.

My point is that you nor no man can stand on a chair, on a stage, in a field, or sit behind a computer or in front of a camera and proclaim to "know" the FACT in this debate. The same holds true for anyone that holds the negative position to your affirmative. The sooner we all understand that the better.

Disclaimer- none of the prior statements are meant to be as a personal attack or flaming. If they come across that way I apologize, however I stand by the premises presented.

No Personal Attack taken. I've been around here for a while. It doesn't really bother me.

I completely agree that I can't prove what I Know. But I do know it. I'm sick of having to Hem and Haw with Phrases like "I believe this" Or " This is How I think it Goes". To me right now, I know that I was created by God, I know he has a Purpose in my life, and I know that just about every Scientific proof can and Will point to him. I'll LIsten and wieght agianst what I know, maybe I'll change my mind, but I'm not going to sugar coat things.


I am one of the people into thinking that Becoming a Christian takes faith in the First Steps. That Faith is then Used as a Catalyst to Strengthen that Relationship. As Christains we are encouraged to renew out minds and not be stupid. (Last part I added) We are also told to Question the teaching of Men on earth, that's including pastors. Faith is Very important. But it's not the only thing we have as Christians. It's a Piece of the Pie (a Very large one). But with out the Other pieces we can't really have a Strong relationship with Christ and serve people as we should.

Also, I'm told to stand on the mountain tops and proclaim the good news of Christ. If I don't, The rocks will. I'm scared of talking rocks. I mean, the Rock people in Never ending story, they scared the crap out of me.
I' not going to force it, but I'm going to let people know the Truth. And That truth Is Christ.
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Old March 22nd, 2009, 06:05 PM   #65
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No Personal Attack taken. I've been around here for a while. It doesn't really bother me.

I completely agree that I can't prove what I Know. But I do know it. I'm sick of having to Hem and Haw with Phrases like "I believe this" Or " This is How I think it Goes". To me right now, I know that I was created by God, I know he has a Purpose in my life, and I know that just about every Scientific proof can and Will point to him. I'll LIsten and wieght agianst what I know, maybe I'll change my mind, but I'm not going to sugar coat things.


I am one of the people into thinking that Becoming a Christian takes faith in the First Steps. That Faith is then Used as a Catalyst to Strengthen that Relationship. As Christains we are encouraged to renew out minds and not be stupid. (Last part I added) We are also told to Question the teaching of Men on earth, that's including pastors. Faith is Very important. But it's not the only thing we have as Christians. It's a Piece of the Pie (a Very large one). But with out the Other pieces we can't really have a Strong relationship with Christ and serve people as we should.

Also, I'm told to stand on the mountain tops and proclaim the good news of Christ. If I don't, The rocks will. I'm scared of talking rocks. I mean, the Rock people in Never ending story, they scared the crap out of me.
I' not going to force it, but I'm going to let people know the Truth. And That truth Is Christ.

Hopefully we can bring you around eventually. LOL


Not all congregations teach this. I would even say the minority of them do.
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Old March 22nd, 2009, 07:30 PM   #66
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Hopefully we can bring you around eventually. LOL
Well, I'm open to listen, But I'm pretty conviced in what I Know.

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Not all congregations teach this. I would even say the minority of them do.

I Completely agree 100%. Most Congregations are struggling to survive though. I wouldn't be surprised that once my Generation (I'm 23) starts teaching in Churches that will change. The Church That I go to here in Holt (RiverView) is very much with this idea. They are Growing Weekly and have to have "full Chuch meetings" In the Wharton center. They fill the place. However, They are still personal enough because they have like 7 services. What You'll also find is that the Christians who search things out for themselves and truly Study Thier bibles will be better equiped to serve thier comunity and Impact the world for Christ.

Alot of the older churches still subscribe to "the Pastor Knows Everything" idea. I'm not saying they don't know alot. I mean, My dad has a Masters in Divinity and is an Elder of the United methodist church. He knows his stuff. But, He's also human. Pastors are there to start that process of thinking and then answer any questions that believers may have that they can't figure out on thier own. They aren't there to hand feed the Congregation. I wish More churhes would start encouraging thier Congregations to Read/Study thier bible on thier own.
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Old March 22nd, 2009, 08:37 PM   #67
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I don't know. And I honestly couldn't care less. It is, and that's good enough for me.
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Old March 23rd, 2009, 04:53 AM   #68
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The Apostle Paul said this: "Test all things, hold on to the good"

This is not to mean that we are all to create our own subjective truths, but it DOES mean to seek truth and rule out false beliefs. Even back in Paul's day there were false beliefs on Jesus, and he just ascended into heaven not that long ago when he wrote that! Today there are many many many alternate Jesus'
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Old March 23rd, 2009, 07:05 AM   #69
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I'll start off by saying in no way shape or form to a be leave in God, heave or hell.

Now as for evolution, over my years of reading about it I've came to one real possibility. We has humans are NOT native to this planet. I think our primitive ancestors where brought here as a experiment to see if we could evolve.

Far fetched? Yes, Possibility? absolutely.

With all those stars out there in space there is no way we are the only place with life. Who's to say there hasn't always been life some where?

Religion, God and the "Bible" are just ways for scared little sheep (man) to explain something they can't understand. And give a bunch of mindless sheep one common view to grow on.

Why does there have to be some great power over us? Why can't we be the creater of our own destiny's?
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Old March 23rd, 2009, 07:31 AM   #70
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I'll start off by saying in no way shape or form to a be leave in God, heave or hell.

Now as for evolution, over my years of reading about it I've came to one real possibility. We has humans are NOT native to this planet. I think our primitive ancestors where brought here as a experiment to see if we could evolve.

Far fetched? Yes, Possibility? absolutely.

With all those stars out there in space there is no way we are the only place with life. Who's to say there hasn't always been life some where?

Religion, God and the "Bible" are just ways for scared little sheep (man) to explain something they can't understand. And give a bunch of mindless sheep one common view to grow on.

Why does there have to be some great power over us? Why can't we be the creater of our own destiny's?
Are you a Scientologist?
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Old March 23rd, 2009, 08:16 AM   #71
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Are you a Scientologist?

No not at all, I'm what I'd call a "seeker" I seek the facts the truth and the one true meaning to why we are here. That's all nothing less nothing more.
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Old March 23rd, 2009, 10:45 AM   #72
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This is one of my more extreme thinking points but, why even the need to question why we are here? Shouldnt we focus on how to exist together given the fact that we are here? does this not factor in anywhere? Why do we need a purpose? its like trying to figure out how we got on the island but forgetting that we need to find out how to survive before we run out of food.
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Old March 23rd, 2009, 10:48 AM   #73
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This is one of my more extreme thinking points but, why even the need to question why we are here? Shouldnt we focus on how to exist together given the fact that we are here? does this not factor in anywhere? Why do we need a purpose? its like trying to figure out how we got on the island but forgetting that we need to find out how to survive before we run out of food.
We have plenty of food, and need to occupy our time with something.
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Old March 23rd, 2009, 10:50 AM   #74
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The food was an analogy to societies larger issues. Which to what I wold say our hunger is far form satiated.
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Old March 23rd, 2009, 04:52 PM   #75
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I'll start off by saying in no way shape or form to a be leave in God, heave or hell.

Now as for evolution, over my years of reading about it I've came to one real possibility. We has humans are NOT native to this planet. I think our primitive ancestors where brought here as a experiment to see if we could evolve.

Far fetched? Yes, Possibility? absolutely.

With all those stars out there in space there is no way we are the only place with life. Who's to say there hasn't always been life some where?

Religion, God and the "Bible" are just ways for scared little sheep (man) to explain something they can't understand. And give a bunch of mindless sheep one common view to grow on.

Why does there have to be some great power over us? Why can't we be the creater of our own destiny's?

That a pretty common thought of most Non Christian people. I would almost say that it was fed to you the exact same way that us "Sheep" were fed Religion. Just sayin'

I think we do need a Power over us. Our World is slowly getting worst. Nobody can deny that. Yet we also claim to have become more Evolved in our thinking. We don't need a God because we have our selves to make the rules. Now that sounds ridiculous. Would you let a 5 year old tell you how to run your house? I didn't think so. It's no different here. We may THINK we have the Ability and Moral Uprightness (I think I just made that up) to make ethical Laws but we really don't. God, Religion, Faith all Give a Common thing to lead us in those decisions. Some, if not all, Moral guidelines come from one Religion or another. It's Undenyable.

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No not at all, I'm what I'd call a "seeker" I seek the facts the truth and the one true meaning to why we are here. That's all nothing less nothing more.
Do you truly seek the Truth? Click here It's a Biblical view of the truth. I'm not wanting you to become a Christian. But If you claim to be a Seeker you have to start somewere. Why not Christianity?

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This is one of my more extreme thinking points but, why even the need to question why we are here? Shouldnt we focus on how to exist together given the fact that we are here? does this not factor in anywhere? Why do we need a purpose? its like trying to figure out how we got on the island but forgetting that we need to find out how to survive before we run out of food.
Wouldn't existing together be a purpose for life?
How bout the fact that with a Purpose, you don't have to answer all the Little questions because alot of the Particulars in life are automatically answered. With purpose walking out the door is a Quest to fulfill your purpose. With out Purpose Walking out the door is just...walking out the door. I would think that Purpose is what drives us to be greater people. Alot of people don't feel they have a Purpose because of Emotional Scars, Abuse, Lack of a strong adult figure, ETC.....The Purpose for life is Right in front of everybody, yet they don't posses the ability or Motivation to take up thier purpose and Live. Humans were Designed to Bring Glory to God. That is our Purpose. Even the Most Dedicated Atheist still Glorifies God when he shows a new Scientific Break through. I just wish people would be willing to except their purpose.
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Old March 23rd, 2009, 05:38 PM   #76
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I was never feed my views. My mother is a Catholic and my father is a Methodist. My views are mine. Made by reading learning and living.

And the facts in my eye's say God, Jesus and Satin do not nor did they ever exist. I view all things through the eyes of science. I have no problem with anyone that be leave in the Bible. I just think they are not brave enough to find there own way with out guidance.

The Bible I will say is a history book but a very flawed history book. History has shown that all History books we read are wrote by the winner (who ever that may be) I want to read the looser book it will always be closer to the facts.

Through the years I have read about many religions from Catholic, Buddhism, Wicca, Satanism, Paganism and alot of others. And I always find one thing to be true about them all, they fall short of the truth.

Like I said before my reasons for be leaving the way I do are from what I view as the truth.

Am I right? Maybe, Are you or others right? Maybe.

The truth is none of us know for sure. And to really think you do is to be blind.
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Old March 23rd, 2009, 05:50 PM   #77
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This is one of my more extreme thinking points but, why even the need to question why we are here? Shouldnt we focus on how to exist together given the fact that we are here? does this not factor in anywhere? Why do we need a purpose? its like trying to figure out how we got on the island but forgetting that we need to find out how to survive before we run out of food.

The first answer would be “because I can.” Whether by Gods design or evolutions result, I find myself to be a reasonably intelligent member of one of the worlds most advanced societies of one of the planets most advanced species. I have the ability to contemplate the reason for my existence, so why wouldn’t I.

As to why not try to figure out some of societies larger issues, you could ask anyone that question. Some people spend their time contemplating who will win American Idle, or who will win the basketball tournament, or just mindlessly watching some TV program or sporting event. Why do those things rather than trying to solve society’s larger issues? Just because I choose to spend my free time reading books about philosophy and contemplating my existence rather than mindlessly watching TV for hours a day doesn’t mean that I should have any less right to spend my free time as I choose.

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Old March 23rd, 2009, 06:02 PM   #78
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I was never feed my views. My mother is a Catholic and my father is a Methodist. My views are mine. Made by reading learning and living.

And the facts in my eye's say God, Jesus and Satin do not nor did they ever exist. I view all things through the eyes of science. I have no problem with anyone that be leave in the Bible. I just think they are not brave enough to find there own way with out guidance.

The Bible I will say is a history book but a very flawed history book. History has shown that all History books we read are wrote by the winner (who ever that may be) I want to read the looser book it will always be closer to the facts.

Through the years I have read about many religions from Catholic, Buddhism, Wicca, Satanism, Paganism and alot of others. And I always find one thing to be true about them all, they fall short of the truth.

Like I said before my reasons for be leaving the way I do are from what I view as the truth.

Am I right? Maybe, Are you or others right? Maybe.

The truth is none of us know for sure. And to really think you do is to be blind.
I wasn't saying your parents fed you the ways you did. I've said that You were fed by media, culture, so on and so on. Alot of the IDeas and thoughts that you have pertrayed are very common among this board (and the General Public). It's not new to me, I would hope you would relize what I'm saying. We're all fed in some way or another and saying otherwise is not being truthful.

I agree that none of us know "for sure" but I'm not going to wallo around and just say "no one knows, bla bla bla. " I Stand Firm in what I believe and I'm not going to back down from that belief just because of a Catch all Statement. I know that we don't know fore sure, But I'm being sure of what I believe. I attribute Christianity to having the truth, and I haven't seen any peice of evidence to prove other wise. I'm glad to go through it with anybody. Challenge me. Science is not a tool that I see that is used agianst Religion, Science is a way to explain this natural world. A world that I believe to be made by God. Everything that Science shows points to God.
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Old March 23rd, 2009, 06:12 PM   #79
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Very good point, and I do understand and see the "Media" feed disbelief.

And I guess the best part about all this no mater what or how it's said, We all have the right to be leave how or what we will..
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Old March 23rd, 2009, 07:10 PM   #80
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I wasn't saying your parents fed you the ways you did. I've said that You were fed by media, culture, so on and so on. Alot of the IDeas and thoughts that you have pertrayed are very common among this board (and the General Public). It's not new to me, I would hope you would relize what I'm saying. We're all fed in some way or another and saying otherwise is not being truthful.

I agree that none of us know "for sure" but I'm not going to wallo around and just say "no one knows, bla bla bla. " I Stand Firm in what I believe and I'm not going to back down from that belief just because of a Catch all Statement. I know that we don't know fore sure, But I'm being sure of what I believe. I attribute Christianity to having the truth, and I haven't seen any peice of evidence to prove other wise. I'm glad to go through it with anybody. Challenge me. Science is not a tool that I see that is used agianst Religion, Science is a way to explain this natural world. A world that I believe to be made by God. Everything that Science shows points to God.
Birds of a feather flock together, well except ugly ducklings like me that don't seem to fit into any of the ideals.
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