Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

Politics, Government, or Religion Chat Bring your flamesuit!







Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 19th, 2009, 10:39 PM   #41
Spork
rapid city recovery team
 
Spork's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-04-07
Location: rapid city mi
Posts: 1,046
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

the hubble telescope is sending us pictures of galaxies being born and others dying. Is "God" creating a new playgrounds or new places? Our planet will be absorbed by our sun and the galaxy as a whole will burn up and turn into a fantastic light display. When you die are you any different than "fluffy" buried in the backyard. I think we are giving ourselves too much credit.

Our tails fell off and we learned to live on land. When you look at the world and see what is going on in some corners can you say its happening to them becuz they arent religious enough?

religion was used to control a society. If the internet was available two thousand years ago jesus would now be known as a "urban legend". maybe even a most watched on jew tube.
Spork is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 19th, 2009, 10:45 PM   #42
brewmenn
Grumpy old man.
 
brewmenn's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Inkster, MI
Posts: 10,376
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spork View Post
the hubble telescope is sending us pictures of galaxies being born and others dying. Is "God" creating a new playgrounds or new places? Our planet will be absorbed by our sun and the galaxy as a whole will burn up and turn into a fantastic light display. When you die are you any different than "fluffy" buried in the backyard. I think we are giving ourselves too much credit.

Our tails fell off and we learned to live on land. When you look at the world and see what is going on in some corners can you say its happening to them becuz they arent religious enough?

religion was used to control a society. If the internet was available two thousand years ago jesus would now be known as a "urban legend". maybe even a most watched on jew tube.
OK, but whats your thought about my original question?
brewmenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 19th, 2009, 10:48 PM   #43
Nuggets
I fix stuff!
 
Nuggets's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-15-06
Location: Bay City, MI
Posts: 13,365
iTrader: (13)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

The smartest creatures in the Universe are mice. I read it in the "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy", so it must be true.
Nuggets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 19th, 2009, 10:49 PM   #44
Blacklung
Senior Member
 
Blacklung's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-13-08
Location: Emmett, MI
Posts: 1,197
iTrader: (4)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

My biggest question is if God created everything, who created God? Himself?
Blacklung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 19th, 2009, 11:02 PM   #45
Nuggets
I fix stuff!
 
Nuggets's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-15-06
Location: Bay City, MI
Posts: 13,365
iTrader: (13)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blacklung View Post
My biggest question is if God created everything, who created God? Himself?
Hence the enigma.
Nuggets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 19th, 2009, 11:03 PM   #46
Spork
rapid city recovery team
 
Spork's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-04-07
Location: rapid city mi
Posts: 1,046
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

i was referring to the creation of a new universe and how gases combine and how particles combine which form new planets and moons etc. If you are asking how argon became argon? I have no idea. I wish i could make my own bacardi :)
Spork is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 19th, 2009, 11:19 PM   #47
shaker
In the band!
 
Join Date: 09-10-06
Location: West Branch
Posts: 1,070
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spork View Post
the hubble telescope is sending us pictures of galaxies being born and others dying. Is "God" creating a new playgrounds or new places? Our planet will be absorbed by our sun and the galaxy as a whole will burn up and turn into a fantastic light display. When you die are you any different than "fluffy" buried in the backyard. I think we are giving ourselves too much credit.

Our tails fell off and we learned to live on land. When you look at the world and see what is going on in some corners can you say its happening to them becuz they arent religious enough?

religion was used to control a society. If the internet was available two thousand years ago jesus would now be known as a "urban legend". maybe even a most watched on jew tube.

That right there is funny.
shaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 20th, 2009, 04:10 AM   #48
Dave Kerwin
web wheeling, hard.
 
Dave Kerwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-18-05
Location: SE MI
Posts: 6,683
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
OK, but whats your thought about my original question?
lol
Dave Kerwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 20th, 2009, 06:02 AM   #49
steveo
In the band!
 
Join Date: 03-30-07
Location: montana/wyoming
Posts: 20,293
iTrader: (6)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Kerwin View Post
You paddle the same faith raft, from the other side.

I get mad when the scientific community acts like everything is rock solid (pun intended) and yet are dishonest about the FAITH they have in their theories and in their gaps.

The real question to answer is where you are comfortable GRANTING that faith. In God who explains origins, or in nothing that explains origins. I find enough evidence to believe that a supernatural being has begun and move through all of our history.
no. you're wrong.
steveo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 20th, 2009, 07:22 AM   #50
L4CX
Out for the Summer!
 
L4CX's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-16-07
Location: Hillsdale, MI
Posts: 4,913
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spork View Post
the Hubble telescope is sending us pictures of galaxies being born and others dying. Is "God" creating a new playgrounds or new places? Our planet will be absorbed by our sun and the galaxy as a whole will burn up and turn into a fantastic light display. When you die are you any different than "fluffy" buried in the backyard. I think we are giving ourselves too much credit.

Our tails fell off and we learned to live on land. When you look at the world and see what is going on in some corners can you say its happening to them becuz they arent religious enough?

religion was used to control a society. If the internet was available two thousand years ago jesus would now be known as a "urban legend". maybe even a most watched on jew tube.
I'd lIke to say that most Astronomical "science" is Speculation. We have an infantile view on the universe and all we really can do is Speculate as to what may happen.

Actually the Hubble telescope is sending us information of galaxies being created or dying "thousands of years ago". There's no saying that God didn't create that light to explain to us how stars are created or Die. Everything on thing in this Universe can point to God, he designed it that way.

I don't say it's because they aren't religious enough, I say it's because they make poor Choices. I dislike "Religious" People. "Religious" People tend to be the ones that call them selves Christians but don't actually live that out. They trade the Relationship of Christ with a set of Traditions and Rules they have to follow; making it no different then the Jewish faith that Christ Came to Fulfill.

I think if the internet would have been around back then all the Jewish people may have been able to make the Connection that he really was their Messiah. He fulfilled so many prophesies before he even was born. He wasn't just some Guy who said "I'm a the son of God". No, he proved it time and time again by fulfilling prophesies that had been told hundreds of years before him. Let me also mention (a second time) that some of those Prophesies were fulfilled before he was born, making it impossible for him read them and then just mimic them. He was not just some nut, He was the Real deal.
L4CX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 20th, 2009, 07:22 AM   #51
L4CX
Out for the Summer!
 
L4CX's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-16-07
Location: Hillsdale, MI
Posts: 4,913
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by steveo View Post
no. you're wrong.
Back that up?
L4CX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 20th, 2009, 08:54 AM   #52
brewmenn
Grumpy old man.
 
brewmenn's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Inkster, MI
Posts: 10,376
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spork View Post
i was referring to the creation of a new universe and how gases combine and how particles combine which form new planets and moons etc. If you are asking how argon became argon? I have no idea. I wish i could make my own bacardi :)

Thank you for perfectly illustrating my point.
brewmenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 20th, 2009, 09:26 AM   #53
shaker
In the band!
 
Join Date: 09-10-06
Location: West Branch
Posts: 1,070
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by smasheromalley View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
Back that up?
Science = Exercising theories, where doubting and questioning those theories is welcomed.


Religion = Faith that all answers are in a fairy tail, with little to no room for doubt.
shaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 20th, 2009, 09:36 AM   #54
brewmenn
Grumpy old man.
 
brewmenn's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Inkster, MI
Posts: 10,376
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shaker View Post
Science = Exercising theories, where doubting and questioning those theories is welcomed.


Religion = Faith that all answers are in a fairy tail, with little to no room for doubt.
My current thought is that Religion = Science + Time.
brewmenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 20th, 2009, 09:59 AM   #55
shaker
In the band!
 
Join Date: 09-10-06
Location: West Branch
Posts: 1,070
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
My current thought is that Religion = Science + Time.
I disagree. Science is different for a few reasons. Most of which the attempt to answer questions changes as new evidence is presented. Where as with religion new evidence just gets twisted to fit old thoughts.


Scientology would be the closest thing to making your statement true. But I don't see that getting many followers outside of the quacks in Hollywood.


Comparing science and religion is really apples and oranges. And any attempt to put them on an equal playing field just does not work for me. Outside of answering some of the same questions with different answers, they have nothing in common.
shaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 20th, 2009, 05:23 PM   #56
brewmenn
Grumpy old man.
 
brewmenn's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Inkster, MI
Posts: 10,376
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shaker View Post
I disagree. Science is different for a few reasons. Most of which the attempt to answer questions changes as new evidence is presented. Where as with religion new evidence just gets twisted to fit old thoughts.


Scientology would be the closest thing to making your statement true. But I don't see that getting many followers outside of the quacks in Hollywood.


Comparing science and religion is really apples and oranges. And any attempt to put them on an equal playing field just does not work for me. Outside of answering some of the same questions with different answers, they have nothing in common.
I don’t think you understand what I mean by the time factor. Let’s consider Genesis. Who wrote it and why?

The anti-religion people will claim it was just some story that got written down, and some will go as far as to claim it was written down with sinister intent, to control the people by getting them scared of an all powerful god.

The faithful Christians will claim that it was pretty much someone taking dictation from God himself.

I choose to believe in a more neutral position (this should surprise no one that knows me). My current thinking is that the writer of Genesis, at least the first 9 chapters, was probably a very intelligent person of his day. His intention was not to control the masses, nor to create scripture or lay the groundwork for a new religion. His intention was merely to look around at the world he lived in, take what was “common knowledge” of his time, and try to explain best he could how it came into being. It’s part history and part natural science. And I probably shouldn’t say “writer” because it would almost certainly started and an oral story passed down through generations. By the time it actually got committed to written words the story and it’s intent may have changed, and ended up getting frozen in time. It represents the scientific beliefs of man from however many thousands of years ago. I think that’s true of many religions.

This is why it bothers me to see so many people latching onto science without understanding what it’s all about. Scientists seem to like to claim they know all the right answers but I’m sure if you took everything we “know” about the universe and wrote in all down and sealed it in a vault for 1000 years when they opened it a read it they would laugh at all the stuff that we got way wrong.

Scientology is sort of like that but without the time factor but with the goofball factor of people believing in stuff that a science fiction writer was making up. I do wonder though if you could go into the future a couple of thousand years if there’s people that consider L. Ron Hubbard a great profit like Moses, and if there will be fanciful stories regarding his birth.
brewmenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 20th, 2009, 05:58 PM   #57
steveo
In the band!
 
Join Date: 03-30-07
Location: montana/wyoming
Posts: 20,293
iTrader: (6)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
Back that up?
not for you.
steveo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 20th, 2009, 06:23 PM   #58
shaker
In the band!
 
Join Date: 09-10-06
Location: West Branch
Posts: 1,070
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
I don’t think you understand what I mean by the time factor. Let’s consider Genesis. Who wrote it and why?


The anti-religion people will claim it was just some story that got written down, and some will go as far as to claim it was written down with sinister intent, to control the people by getting them scared of an all powerful god.

The faithful Christians will claim that it was pretty much someone taking dictation from God himself.

I choose to believe in a more neutral position (this should surprise no one that knows me). My current thinking is that the writer of Genesis, at least the first 9 chapters, was probably a very intelligent person of his day. His intention was not to control the masses, nor to create scripture or lay the groundwork for a new religion. His intention was merely to look around at the world he lived in, take what was “common knowledge” of his time, and try to explain best he could how it came into being. It’s part history and part natural science. And I probably shouldn’t say “writer” because it would almost certainly started and an oral story passed down through generations. By the time it actually got committed to written words the story and it’s intent may have changed, and ended up getting frozen in time. It represents the scientific beliefs of man from however many thousands of years ago. I think that’s true of many religions.



This is why it bothers me to see so many people latching onto science without understanding what it’s all about. Scientists seem to like to claim they know all the right answers but I’m sure if you took everything we “know” about the universe and wrote in all down and sealed it in a vault for 1000 years when they opened it a read it they would laugh at all the stuff that we got way wrong.

I see what you are saying, and it is possible. However the circumstances of today are far different then when Genesis was wrote. Information travels around the world very, very quickly now. When genesis was wrote it could take years for any information to travel very far. So any science that gets proven to be inaccurate today will be corrected world wide in a day. Not leaving room for things to evolve into a faith based religion, even if your hypothesis on Genesis is correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
Scientology is sort of like that but without the time factor but with the goofball factor of people believing in stuff that a science fiction writer was making up. I do wonder though if you could go into the future a couple of thousand years if there’s people that consider L. Ron Hubbard a great profit like Moses, and if there will be fanciful stories regarding his birth.
Scientology is a perfect example, of people getting accurate information about what a crock it is world wide. A very small percentage of very weak people buy into it. And I don't see it ever becoming much more than a joke for the most part.
shaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 20th, 2009, 08:38 PM   #59
L4CX
Out for the Summer!
 
L4CX's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-16-07
Location: Hillsdale, MI
Posts: 4,913
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shaker View Post
I disagree. Science is different for a few reasons. Most of which the attempt to answer questions changes as new evidence is presented. Where as with religion new evidence just gets twisted to fit old thoughts.


Scientology would be the closest thing to making your statement true. But I don't see that getting many followers outside of the quacks in Hollywood.


Comparing science and religion is really apples and oranges. And any attempt to put them on an equal playing field just does not work for me. Outside of answering some of the same questions with different answers, they have nothing in common.
Actually Science can be used inside of Religion. And Religion can "evolve" just as well as Science. If it couldn't then it wouldn't be around. Science is just a way to prove what is already known by the people that believe in Christianity. I know that God created the world, I know he created me, I know he created the cells that I'm so Fascinated with right now. Science just backs up what I have already been told through God's word.

Science trys to answer the Particulars of life while Religion usually answers the Universals. I personally find that knowing the Universal truths in life makes the Particulars fall into place. I enjoy this way of life. I'm glad you can enjoy the way you live.


Quote:
Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
I don’t think you understand what I mean by the time factor. Let’s consider Genesis. Who wrote it and why?

The anti-religion people will claim it was just some story that got written down, and some will go as far as to claim it was written down with sinister intent, to control the people by getting them scared of an all powerful god.

The faithful Christians will claim that it was pretty much someone taking dictation from God himself.

I choose to believe in a more neutral position (this should surprise no one that knows me). My current thinking is that the writer of Genesis, at least the first 9 chapters, was probably a very intelligent person of his day. His intention was not to control the masses, nor to create scripture or lay the groundwork for a new religion. His intention was merely to look around at the world he lived in, take what was “common knowledge” of his time, and try to explain best he could how it came into being. It’s part history and part natural science. And I probably shouldn’t say “writer” because it would almost certainly started and an oral story passed down through generations. By the time it actually got committed to written words the story and it’s intent may have changed, and ended up getting frozen in time. It represents the scientific beliefs of man from however many thousands of years ago. I think that’s true of many religions.
Interesting.
L4CX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 20th, 2009, 09:02 PM   #60
L4CX
Out for the Summer!
 
L4CX's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-16-07
Location: Hillsdale, MI
Posts: 4,913
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shaker View Post
I see what you are saying, and it is possible. However the circumstances of today are far different then when Genesis was wrote. Information travels around the world very, very quickly now. When genesis was wrote it could take years for any information to travel very far. So any science that gets proven to be inaccurate today will be corrected world wide in a day. Not leaving room for things to evolve into a faith based religion, even if your hypothesis on Genesis is correct.

I don't want to be mean and I'll probably get flamed hard core for this but.....
There is a Theology based off of Evolution. Evolution opens the door for people to not have to believe in a God. This then makes them able to not have to be accountable to anybody but themselves. This is "good", because our Human nature is to be selfish and do what WE want. Let me be very clear in saying that the Process of Science is Unbiased. I will not argue that. But, now that there is a Way people can do what they want, they will cling to that. Even if it means twisting the Unbiased Science they used in the first place.

I wouldn't doubt that in the Future when Evolution is looked at as old, outdated, Thoeries that there will be a large group of people that won't accept that. The Only difference between them and Christians is that Every Piece of Scientific Evidence that I've come across still points to a God. There will be a point when the Complexities of our universe will not be able to be Explained by Evolution. That's when that (Evolutionary) Theology will become trouble some. JMO



Quote:
Scientology is a perfect example, of people getting accurate information about what a crock it is world wide. A very small percentage of very weak people buy into it. And I don't see it ever becoming much more than a joke for the most part.

I don't agree with this. If there was live media Coverage of Jesus Preaching the Sermon on the mount, There would be a huge Change in the Way this world runs and looks at religion. IF The whole world could look up "Water into wine Dude" On Youtube, They might think a bit different of Christ. I would think that People that are Anti-Religion would want nothing to do with the thought of Christ being Seen on a Worlds stage all at once. The World would change, and these kind of people wouldn't like it. Fortunately, It will happen soon enough. But Unfortunately, It'll be to late for them
.
L4CX is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:54 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Copyright ©2005 - 2012 Cracker Enterprises - Powered by Linux
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=
Page generated in 0.32826 seconds with 50 queries