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Old March 19th, 2009, 08:30 AM   #21
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I don't have any other options to add I was just asking. I just think there has to be something besides believing that some bacteria transformed into a human and the stories in the bible that were meant to scare people into doing what the leadership at the time wanted. Scientology is the funniest of all. A science fiction writer comes up with a story and gets millions of people to follow it, that great. But if you look is it any different than the bible in its outrageousness? It was just written a few thousand years later.
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Old March 19th, 2009, 08:35 AM   #22
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Aliens ftw
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Old March 19th, 2009, 10:28 AM   #23
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Aliens ftw
The only thing adding "aliens" to the equation does is add "where" to the question.
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Old March 19th, 2009, 10:49 AM   #24
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First of all I want to say I respect Dave Kerwin as a person. And he has every right to believe what he wants to believe.

But Bruce I think your question is more of why are people anti-religion.

I take a anti-religion political position, and here is why.


Things like stem cell research, cloning, and tissue regeneration. Are things that can be, or lead to huge steps in the advancement to mankind. But they are restricted and slowed down by the blind faithful.


When some one stands yup and yells OH MY GOD, if we try to clone or regenerate tissue. We will unleash hell on earth. Which spooks the sheepish religious people and creates a stampede of anger against such research.

Then there is the whole terrorism thing, which explains itself in the dangers of herding people. A person can be smart but people are almost always stupid.
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Old March 19th, 2009, 11:06 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by steveo View Post
I dont know, i am ok with not knowing
You paddle the same faith raft, from the other side.

I get mad when the scientific community acts like everything is rock solid (pun intended) and yet are dishonest about the FAITH they have in their theories and in their gaps.

The real question to answer is where you are comfortable GRANTING that faith. In God who explains origins, or in nothing that explains origins. I find enough evidence to believe that a supernatural being has begun and move through all of our history.
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Old March 19th, 2009, 11:08 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by clarkstoncracker View Post
how come the bible doesn't have dinosaurs in it
It does, you moron! (seriously, it does)
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Old March 19th, 2009, 11:09 AM   #27
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Bruce, I don't get your hold up.

You won't get a better answer from the scientific community, the gap is HUGE and unexplainable, but your faith is best set in Jesus, not in air.
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Old March 19th, 2009, 11:48 AM   #28
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Bruce, I don't get your hold up.

You won't get a better answer from the scientific community, the gap is HUGE and unexplainable, but your faith is best set in Jesus, not in air.
Here is my hold up, I do not want to get herded into any belief.

And just because everything can not be explained by science down to the tee, does not mean your beliefs automatically are right.
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Old March 19th, 2009, 12:35 PM   #29
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Here is my hold up, I do not want to get herded into any belief.

And just because everything can not be explained by science down to the tee, does not mean your beliefs automatically are right.
I agree with you that there is not some default law at work, but I happen to know Bruce on a person level and feel at liberty to say what I said specifically to him.

I would also advise that you do not unwillingly jump into a religion. It should be because it is real, and because you truely want to follow. But for you, how can you know what it is unless you hear what it is? Unless you read what it is? I am reading between the lines with you that you have a spiritual hunger, but you don't be to be made a fool of, and knowing which direction to turn next is frustrating you.
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Old March 19th, 2009, 12:47 PM   #30
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The only thing adding "aliens" to the equation does is add "where" to the question.
It was Q.
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Old March 19th, 2009, 01:06 PM   #31
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I agree with you that there is not some default law at work, but I happen to know Bruce on a person level and feel at liberty to say what I said specifically to him.

I would also advise that you do not unwillingly jump into a religion. It should be because it is real, and because you truely want to follow. But for you, how can you know what it is unless you hear what it is? Unless you read what it is? I am reading between the lines with you that you have a spiritual hunger, but you don't be to be made a fool of, and knowing which direction to turn next is frustrating you.

Knowing what direction to go in life has always frustrated me. But that is all part of the fun.


As far as a spiritual hunger, I had that satisfied a long time ago. And now I just believe in the chaos theory. Which is the more chaos one can create the funner life becomes.
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Old March 19th, 2009, 01:15 PM   #32
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Knowing what direction to go in life has always frustrated me. But that is all part of the fun.


As far as a spiritual hunger, I had that satisfied a long time ago. And now I just believe in the chaos theory. Which is the more chaos one can create the funner life becomes.
I sense your frustration, in a way that I relate with ya. I had a few years of that myself.

I sure hope you are only kidding about the chaos thing, because chaos sucks.
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Old March 19th, 2009, 01:19 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Dave Kerwin View Post
I sense your frustration, in a way that I relate with ya. I had a few years of that myself.

I sure hope you are only kidding about the chaos thing, because chaos sucks.

Wasn't Maxwell Smart always fighting Chaos ????

Maybe he should read the Bible more......
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Old March 19th, 2009, 01:39 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Dave Kerwin View Post
I sense your frustration, in a way that I relate with ya. I had a few years of that myself.

I sure hope you are only kidding about the chaos thing, because chaos sucks.
Half kidding, I was a bit nerdy as a kid and extremely organised. I literally had my life planned out at the age of 12. At the ages of 17 and 18 I had two life altering events happen to me that tossed some chaos into my life. I have never been the same, and am glad they happened in a way. Because I am very happy with the life I am leading because of it.


A little chaos in ones life can be a good thing. But you are right that to much chaos sucks.

All things in moderation, is one of the things I learned from the bible I still live by.
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Old March 19th, 2009, 01:44 PM   #35
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Half kidding, I was a bit nerdy as a kid and extremely organised. I literally had my life planned out at the age of 12. At the ages of 17 and 18 I had two life altering events happen to me that tossed some chaos into my life. I have never been the same, and am glad they happened in a way. Because I am very happy with the life I am leading because of it.


A little chaos in ones life can be a good thing. But you are right that to much chaos sucks.

All things in moderation, is one of the things I learned from the bible I still live by.
I think our stories mirror, but in reverse order, lol
I am for more nerdy and organized now, lol

A little chaos is good, God is the great disruptor. And too much is too burdensome.
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Old March 19th, 2009, 07:13 PM   #36
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But Bruce I think your question is more of why are people anti-religion.
More specifically, I was taking a poke at people who will challenge someone like Dave to try to explain what they feel are gaps or inconsistencies within his Biblically based belief of the origin of life, but who have never really looked at the scientific basis of their own beliefs to see what gaps or inconsistencies it may hold.

People seem to want to spend more time trying to knock down other peoples beliefs rather than exploring their own.
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Old March 19th, 2009, 07:30 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Dave Kerwin View Post
Bruce, I don't get your hold up.

You won't get a better answer from the scientific community, the gap is HUGE and unexplainable, but your faith is best set in Jesus, not in air.
Per this discussion the first 9 chapters of Genesis. There just seems to be too much there that contradicts what were actually finding in the ground.

But in general my mind just doesn't seem to be wired up for "faith". And it's not just religious stuff I have a problem with. I'm skeptical about everything until I get concrete proof, and even then I still sometimes wonder.
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Old March 19th, 2009, 07:33 PM   #38
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So because science does not require people to have blind faith, that means the bed time story wrote in the bible carries more weight?


Oh, and I am pro-choice, and pro-Kerwin.

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Old March 19th, 2009, 09:49 PM   #39
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Here's my take (oh boy, brace yourself)...

Creationists like to fall back on the argument that it's impossible for the proper sequence of proteins, molecules, atoms, qwarks (we could go smaller, if needed) to assemble themselves in the order neccessary to begin and/or sustain life.

While it may be mathematically IMPROBABLE, it is not impossible. It's nearly infinitely unlikely, but however unlikely that chance, there is still a mathematical probability that it could occur.

Now, given the probability of such an event, it would stand to reason that it would take an almost infinite number of "samples" to obtain the desired results. There would have to be an almost infinite number of "primordial oozes" to get hit by lightning or whatever the initial "spark" was, in order to generate the high numbers of samples.
I kind of get where you're coming from. I am a Creationist/ID person. I don't necessarily take that view point. I do agree that it is Nearly Impossible for things to come together the way they are. I mean, the most simple cell in our universe is a complex network of machines that are specifically designed for one purpose. With out just one of those machines the cell would be missing a protein some where and not functioning properly. Throw a Wrench in the process and you don't get a cell. You don't get a Mutation of a Cell, You just don't get a cell. I've said it before, but if you walked into a GM plant here in Lansing you wouldn't come to the conclusion that those just were natural structures that we stumbled upon. You wouldn't because of the Obvious design in the plant.


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Look up into the night sky though. For every star you see, think that there are thousands, if not millions, more that you can't see with the naked eye. If each one of those stars were to represent a solar system similar to ours, then it would also stand to reason that those could represent the mathematical "samples" needed to overcome our seemingly insurmountable odds. Even given that some stars don't support planets, or that some planets are unfit for living creatures, there are still thousands (millions/ billions, possibly) of stars out there. I'd say that increases our chances of being that one planet that just happened to spring life from it's ooze.

Now that's not to say that I don't believe in a creator/ designer. On the contrary, I'm more apt to believe the religion side of things. I just don't like some of the assumptions that are made on both sides of the argument sometimes.
I do agree that both sides don't always look at the other side fairly. I try to, But when ever Some one uses science to prove something, I just see God's Design. It's hard for me Not to. Just My Experience.
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Old March 19th, 2009, 10:07 PM   #40
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I kind of get where you're coming from. I am a Creationist/ID person. I don't necessarily take that view point. I do agree that it is Nearly Impossible for things to come together the way they are. I mean, the most simple cell in our universe is a complex network of machines that are specifically designed for one purpose. With out just one of those machines the cell would be missing a protein some where and not functioning properly. Throw a Wrench in the process and you don't get a cell. You don't get a Mutation of a Cell, You just don't get a cell. I've said it before, but if you walked into a GM plant here in Lansing you wouldn't come to the conclusion that those just were natural structures that we stumbled upon. You wouldn't because of the Obvious design in the plant.




I do agree that both sides don't always look at the other side fairly. I try to, But when ever Some one uses science to prove something, I just see God's Design. It's hard for me Not to. Just My Experience.
Funny, I used almost these same words in a discussion of origins awhile back. Needless to say, I agree with you.
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