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Old May 23rd, 2006, 05:10 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Grandman
its easy for the cotter pin to fall out , all so easy for a shackle to turn and put a load on the sides of it . then your trusting that cotter pin with your life . a threaded clevis is simple much stronger and safer .


Mike , i know of no reason that hook must be on the pin rather then the center of the clevis . Main point is not to pull on the sides .
I know of a reason but it really doesnt apply.

For rigging where there stands a chance of the pin unscrewing because of load shift or change in the angle of the pull you want the pin on your no going anywhere no matter what side
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Old May 23rd, 2006, 05:12 AM   #42
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Deaner , the same principles apply but theres more to it . If you use a block and double your line yes you reduce the load on the winch my 50% only if the lines are running straight like this

-----------------
-----------------

If the line is running at a < angle then its less then 50 % reduction .

Lets say your pulling out a larger truck with your lighter rig . Use a dead man and here is how to set that up .

put the block or pulley on the stuck rig , your winch line goes out to the block then back near you but hook it to a tree of other solid object . This method will give you nearly double the winch power plus the the tree will hold 50 % of the load being pulled . This way you dont drag your rig forward . If a second pulley is needed that goes to the tree and the winch line goes to the stuck rig once again . stuck rig has one pulley and the hook attached at that point . Your winch is 4 times the pulling power and your rig is only holding 1/4 of the load .
Now lest us not forget that putting all that weight onto a single open hook is a horrible HORRIBLE thing to do.

Also when you get into 4X- 9,500 starting force you're dealing in forces that'll leave shit behind and drag the frame forward.
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Old May 23rd, 2006, 06:44 AM   #43
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Very nice thread marv. I have heard that it is better to attach tow points with Grade 5 rather than Grade 8 bolts because when pushed grade 5 will stretch while grade 8 will just clean shear off. Any comments? It's always concerned me some, so I use one grade 5 and one grade 8 on each point.
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Old May 23rd, 2006, 07:56 AM   #44
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Very nice thread marv. I have heard that it is better to attach tow points with Grade 5 rather than Grade 8 bolts because when pushed grade 5 will stretch while grade 8 will just clean shear off. Any comments? It's always concerned me some, so I use one grade 5 and one grade 8 on each point.
NEGATIVE. This is urban myth and a horrible horrible HORRIBLE thing to do.

The elastic yeild of the grade 5 is still way below grade 8.
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Old May 23rd, 2006, 07:58 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amc78cj7
Very nice thread marv. I have heard that it is better to attach tow points with Grade 5 rather than Grade 8 bolts because when pushed grade 5 will stretch while grade 8 will just clean shear off. Any comments? It's always concerned me some, so I use one grade 5 and one grade 8 on each point.
I am not an expert in bolts , i am not afriad of a grade 5 or 8 bolt . Grade 2 ( no hash marks ) are junk .
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Old May 23rd, 2006, 08:10 AM   #46
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You're the best Grandman! I think all organized clubs should try to hold at least one training class on how to use a winch and pull someone out safely before they schedule their trips.


I guess I have one thing to add, if you are pulling someone else out, don't assume that this person knows what he/she is doing when they connect to your vehicle and check the connection yourself!!! I don't care how long that person has been wheeling. CHECK YOUR CONNECTIONS and make sure they are safe (using GM's guidelines here) before you give them a tug!!
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Old May 23rd, 2006, 08:43 AM   #47
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A point I would like to add is when hooking to a tree in the woods. It makes a big difference on the type of tree you are hooking to and weather it is alive or a dead tree. I have seen guys hook to small trees and also dead trees that are not safe. There are Hard wood and soft wood etc. would someone like to cover what is best to use. I know there are some woodtick in here someplace.
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Old May 23rd, 2006, 09:02 AM   #48
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A point I would like to add is when hooking to a tree in the woods. It makes a big difference on the type of tree you are hooking to and weather it is alive or a dead tree. I have seen guys hook to small trees and also dead trees that are not safe. There are Hard wood and soft wood etc. would someone like to cover what is best to use. I know there are some woodtick in here someplace.
I'd be game for that. Gona need a few.
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Old May 23rd, 2006, 11:32 AM   #49
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only thing I would like to mention is when hooking 2 straps together with a stick in the middle, the stick is still very dangerous. I had a stick go through the back window of my truck, smash my GPS, and smash my windshield. Hooking 2 straps together should be avoided at all cost. When possible, use a winch safely. Its a little slower, but its a lot safer than jearking on a strap.
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Old May 23rd, 2006, 12:55 PM   #50
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You're the best Grandman! I think all organized clubs should try to hold at least one training class on how to use a winch and pull someone out safely before they schedule their trips.

We have been doing this at the GL quarterly meetings. Recent talks have been the stick trick, snatch blocks, ham radios and the next quarterly will discuss proper cb radio tuning.
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Old May 23rd, 2006, 01:43 PM   #51
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one thing I didn't see here (might have missed) is to never pull on a trailer ball either

last year at the dunes Tonka was stuck pretty bad, the only guy willing to pull him out insisted on using the ball, I said a couple things about not doing it, walked away, and before I knew it I heard a load bang, the ball came off and hit the cab of Tonka's truck, luckily it hit right at the top on the edge and droped ingto the bed of the truck... and this was the ball the guy was 100% possitive was the straongest thing he had to pull on,
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Old May 23rd, 2006, 01:58 PM   #52
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We have been doing this at the GL quarterly meetings. Recent talks have been.... ham radios and the next quarterly will discuss proper cb radio tuning.
Who'd imagine with Jim Mazola at the helm.
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Old May 23rd, 2006, 02:09 PM   #53
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great info here folks you rock g-man
i even read the whole thing



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Old May 23rd, 2006, 02:18 PM   #54
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Who'd imagine with Jim Mazola at the helm.
Believe it or not, he has not been the instigator.

Well........ Except for the ham part.
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Old May 23rd, 2006, 02:53 PM   #55
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The picture of the joined straps with a stick is wrong again because you shouldn't use a stick with square edges. Always use a round stick or small log, the raised edge of a corner will cause the majority of the pressure to be exerted on that corner and could case the strap to break prematurely.

Last edited by Motor Slut; May 23rd, 2006 at 04:38 PM.
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Old May 23rd, 2006, 03:25 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaiserJeep
only thing I would like to mention is when hooking 2 straps together with a stick in the middle, the stick is still very dangerous. I had a stick go through the back window of my truck, smash my GPS, and smash my windshield. Hooking 2 straps together should be avoided at all cost. When possible, use a winch safely. Its a little slower, but its a lot safer than jearking on a strap.

I had never heard of this happening before , it just goes to show what i said earlier . Theres plenty to go wrong with a well layed plan .

swamp jeep made a great point too , never hook to a trailer ball .
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Old May 23rd, 2006, 03:28 PM   #57
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Just a little addition . . .

For those people not DIRECTLY involved in the winching procedure, BACK AWAY.

I have heard it mentioned several times ,and from several sources, that on-lookers should be a MINIMUM of 1.5x the length of line being used away from the pull.

Lines don't always come straight back.

I'd also like to mention that it's never a bad idea to lift the hoods of the vehicles when winching fwd. If something does happen the steel hood is an additional layer between the driver and the incoming cable. I admit that I don't use this in minor situations but do if the pull seems questionable but necessary.
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Old May 23rd, 2006, 05:55 PM   #58
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I bought the 4 Wheeler's Bible to read up on things exactly like this topic (and lucky for me it has TONS more good info). Thanks for this topic.

From the minor hijack of this thread: My CB has a built in SWR and you can tune the radio to the antenna (as opposed to tuning the antenna to the radio). And I am a ham (N1URQ) and have a mobile 2 meter radio. First I have heard of fellow Jeepers using their hams on the trails. If this is the way everybody is going I'll swap my 2 meter from my truck into my Jeep, like I did with my CB. Is there a thread on this?...couldn't find one via the search feature.
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Old May 23rd, 2006, 06:55 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amc78cj7
Very nice thread marv. I have heard that it is better to attach tow points with Grade 5 rather than Grade 8 bolts because when pushed grade 5 will stretch while grade 8 will just clean shear off. Any comments? It's always concerned me some, so I use one grade 5 and one grade 8 on each point.
I can help here. if you know the spec there are shear and pull loads for all bolts. the highest shear load is Grade 8 as a standard bolt, then a 5-6. the idea being the shear load can hold many times the thickness of the bolt.

to give you an exsample a 3/8 grade 8 shears at about 4400lbs. a grade 2 is about 1600lbs. the best grade 2 even at 1" thick only holds back 5500lbs of shear. so if you plan to do anything in the chassie use grade 8's. anything on the suspension use grade 5's. they absorb much more impact before they will shear.
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Old May 23rd, 2006, 06:58 PM   #60
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by the way Marv I finished up my wreckmaster training today... you really need to take that class. it could even teach an old dog like you a few tricks.
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