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Old January 12th, 2009, 08:08 PM   #1
jaymcjay
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Default An E-Build

So I'm kicking some ideas around on doing a suspension rebuild on my CJ5. The summer before last it got a Dodge D60 up front and a GM 14bolt out back. I had the jeep way up high using a 4" CJ lift spring SOA for a grand total of a whole bunch of lift. A buddy and I took our jeeps to Moab where I decided that the ride sucked, and it was a little too high. So now I'm just about done transplanting a GM 5.3L Vortec motor and 4L60E tranny in, and thinking it might be time for some links.
I'm modeling the jeep up so I can get an idea how things are going to go. If you feel like giving input feel free...
hopefully I've attached a few pictures that show where I'm headed....
The tan colored frame in the back is what I'm thinking of adding. The blue up front is what's there already.
I'm trying to figure out if I've got the money for coilovers all around or if I should put coilovers in the front and do a 1/4 eliptical in the back. You can see a little of each developing out back.
Anyhow, have at it!
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Old January 12th, 2009, 08:21 PM   #2
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so whats the question
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Old January 12th, 2009, 08:25 PM   #3
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so whats the question
I guess no question in particular, just thought I'd throw it out there to see if folks had comments, briliant ideas, etc
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Old January 12th, 2009, 09:50 PM   #4
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needs more trianglation
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Old January 12th, 2009, 09:52 PM   #5
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i think it needs an alignment
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Old January 13th, 2009, 04:20 AM   #6
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have you spent time with triaged's calculator/s ? if not, id start there and work towards some numbers based on where you can fit everything. since theres no one right answer, its as much about your preference as anything else, (assuming its dialed in reasonably). all the choices have there pros and cons, ie. your lowers look long - in general thats good for consistency during cycling but they tend to get bent and chewed up easier than ones that are shorter, so then you go to 7075, yada, yada, and so on. you basically just keep adjusting till you feel right about it.
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Old January 13th, 2009, 06:13 AM   #7
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i like your E-Build i do the same thing i draw up my own suspension parts and rework then again and again, its a lot cheaper!! Good Luck on your re-build!!
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Old January 13th, 2009, 06:25 AM   #8
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I screwed around with that caluclator quite a bit. Here are my latest numbers in the rear.
Not sure they're good enough or if I should keep fiddling.
thoughts?
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Old January 13th, 2009, 08:06 AM   #9
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I screwed around with that caluclator quite a bit. Here are my latest numbers in the rear.
Not sure they're good enough or if I should keep fiddling.
thoughts?

maybe plan on some adjustability in the upper frame side so you could bump up your AS a bit and play around with how it feels. have you played with the travel much ? sometimes a big difference in upper lower length gets you crazy numbers as it cycles, plus the pinion angle can go nuts and point into the earth, depending on the amount of travel of course.
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Old January 13th, 2009, 08:09 AM   #10
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I cycled it +8" and -12" and get less than a degree of pinion rotation. It all seems really kosher...maybe too good. Seems like there's got to be a cloud to go along with that silver lining.
as for triangulation, I think that the lower links are at a 16 degree angle and the uppers are at a 22 degree angle. Not sure if that's enough to hold it side to side...
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Old January 13th, 2009, 08:21 AM   #11
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your COG is way too low and the weight is awfully optimistic.... I would ditch the double tall frame section under the belly and come up with something more creative.

Your pinion doesnt change through the travel because the links are pretty much paralell. Pinion angle isnt very important, I would be more focused on getting the suspension to have a lot of anti squat when it is fully compressed and to have very little ant squat when the suspension is drooped out... from there try to get your roll axis as high as you can realistically get it...

start with that
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Old January 13th, 2009, 08:23 AM   #12
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Your tires need more tread!
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Old January 13th, 2009, 08:36 AM   #13
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Your pinion doesnt change through the travel because the links are pretty much paralell. Pinion angle isnt very important, I would be more focused on getting the suspension to have a lot of anti squat when it is fully compressed and to have very little ant squat when the suspension is drooped out... from there try to get your roll axis as high as you can realistically get it...

start with that
what's the trick for getting more AS when compressed and less when drooping? I'm playing with the calculator and not seeing the magical method...
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Old January 13th, 2009, 09:11 AM   #14
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what's the trick for getting more AS when compressed and less when drooping? I'm playing with the calculator and not seeing the magical method...

if I told you then it wouldnt be a tricky magic secret then would it?

link angles play a huge part in it... they just about need to be higher on the axle than the frame at full compressed for starters... then you make the uppers shorter and the frame mounts for them more rearward than the lower frame mounts.... as the suspension drops out you want them to be almost the same distance from the axle centerline... i.e. no more offset. the instant center is going to move all over the place when you do that but the benefits greatly out-weigh the downsides when you get that nailed down properly.... (on paper and in theory )

good luck
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Old January 13th, 2009, 09:22 AM   #15
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.... as the suspension drops out you want them to be almost the same distance from the axle centerline... i.e. no more offset.

does this mean that the lower axle mount is equally below the upper axle mount?
Do you have an example of numbers that produce this desired result?
Thanks!
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Old January 13th, 2009, 09:28 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaymcjay View Post
.... as the suspension drops out you want them to be almost the same distance from the axle centerline... i.e. no more offset.

does this mean that the lower axle mount is equally below the upper axle mount?
Do you have an example of numbers that produce this desired result?
Thanks!
I didnt do anything on a calculator... when it comes time to making it I might run the numbers through just to see what it does but there is nothing out there that I know of.

when the axle is at full droop, draw an arc around the axle centerline with one point at the lower mounts... the arc should pass through somewhere near the upper frame mount. That is NOT going to make your geometry magical... what it will do is get you one step closer to the magical "perfect" 4 link that doesnt really exist but might be something better than what you have already.

that's all from me... theres a whole bunch of stuff here that people will try to beat up on me for. go run some numbers and get the wheels turning...
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Old January 13th, 2009, 10:20 AM   #17
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I have come to the same realization that you have leaf springs with the Wight and power that our jeep are going to produce (I am putting a Cummins in mine) The only real solution is to go with a link set up. I want to us air bag instead of coils for mine. Are you going to lengthen your wheel base? Let me know everything you figure out.
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Old January 13th, 2009, 11:18 AM   #18
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jaymcjay,

Is that your jeep in the avatar? Looks pretty sweet as if so.
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Old January 13th, 2009, 11:25 AM   #19
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jaymcjay,

Is that your jeep in the avatar? Looks pretty sweet as if so.
yep, that's my jeep in the avatar. It's coming along, but still having teething pains. Here are a few more pics of it, just to get a sense of scale and such.
the tall one is out in Moab, the one where it's dirty and lowered is in Harlan, KY. I dropped it about 7" between those two pictures.

BTW The wheelbase has been stretched thru booty fab methods out to about 104"
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Old January 13th, 2009, 11:39 AM   #20
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thats a cool mail jeep!

is it rhd still or did you convert it over? looks like you coverted it.

i live in the area maybe i could come over sometime and see it?
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