so, splain this to me - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest

Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

Politics, Government, or Religion Chat Bring your flamesuit!

greatlakes4x4.com is the premier Great Lakes 4x4 Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old May 11th, 2006, 08:28 AM   #1
Lothos
KD8GKB
 
Lothos's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-17-05
Location: .5 past lightspeed
Posts: 6,506
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via ICQ to Lothos Send a message via AIM to Lothos Send a message via Yahoo to Lothos
Default so, splain this to me

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/05/....ap/index.html

The Justice dept stops their investigation into illegal spying by the NSA and the Pres because the NSA says they can't look at their shit? WTF.
Lothos is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old May 11th, 2006, 11:03 AM   #2
Haggar
Covered in mud...
 
Haggar's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-06-05
Location: Oxford, MI
Posts: 17,644
iTrader: (55)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Welcome to W land..
Haggar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 11th, 2006, 11:08 AM   #3
Haggar
Covered in mud...
 
Haggar's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-06-05
Location: Oxford, MI
Posts: 17,644
iTrader: (55)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Plus:


WASHINGTON (AP) -- Congressional Democrats demanded answers from the Bush administration Thursday about a report that the government secretly collected records of ordinary Americans' phone calls to build a database of every call made within the country.

"It is our government, it's not one party's government. It's America's government. Those entrusted with great power have a duty to answer to Americans what they are doing," said Sen. Patrick Leahy of Vermont, the ranking Democrat on the Senate Judiciary Committee.

AT&T, Verizon and BellSouth telephone companies began turning over records of tens of millions of their customers' phone calls to the National Security Agency program shortly after the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, USA Today reported, citing anonymous sources it said had direct knowledge of the arrangement.

The telephone companies on Thursday declined to comment on national security matters, and would say only that they are assisting government agencies in accordance with the law.

"We have been in full compliance with the law and we are committed to our customers' privacy," said Bob Varettoni, a spokesman for Verizon.

The White House defended its overall eavesdropping program and said no domestic surveillance is conducted without court approval.

"The intelligence activities undertaken by the United States government are lawful, necessary and required to protect Americans from terrorist attacks," said Dana Perino, the deputy White House press secretary, who added that appropriate members of Congress have been briefed on intelligence activities.

On Capitol Hill, Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pennsylvania, the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, said he would call the phone companies to appear before the panel "to find out exactly what is going on."

Before the latest report, Specter said the committee "has been unable to perform our constitutional oversight responsibilities to determine the constitutionality of the program."

Leahy sounded incredulous about the latest report and railed against what he called a lack of congressional oversight. He argued that the media was doing the job of Congress.

"Are you telling me that tens of millions of Americans are involved with al Qaeda?" Leahy asked. "These are tens of millions of Americans who are not suspected of anything ... Where does it stop?"

The Democrat, who at one point held up a copy of the newspaper, added: "Somebody ought to tell the truth and answer questions. They haven't. The press has done our work for us and we should be ashamed. Shame on us for being so far behind and being so willing to rubber stamp anything this administration does. We ought to fold our tents."

Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Illinois, said bringing the telephone companies before the Judiciary Committee is an important step.

"We need more. We need to take this seriously, more seriously than some other matters that might come before the committee because our privacy as American citizens is at stake," Durbin said.

The program does not involve listening to or taping the calls. Instead it documents who talks to whom in personal and business calls, whether local or long distance, by tracking which numbers are called, the newspaper said.

The NSA and the Office of National Intelligence Director did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

NSA is the same spy agency that conducts the controversial domestic eavesdropping program that has been acknowledged by President Bush. The president said last year that he authorized the NSA to listen, without warrants, to international phone calls involving Americans suspected of terrorist links.
Haggar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 11th, 2006, 11:09 AM   #4
Sandals
Fucking Zen as Shit
 
Sandals's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Lindenhurst, IL
Posts: 15,373
iTrader: (7)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

mmmmmm so maybe thats what all those strange clicking noises are for
Sandals is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 11th, 2006, 11:22 AM   #5
FrankNBrew
Me balls are huge
 
FrankNBrew's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Warren
Posts: 2,543
iTrader: (13)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

The only people who complain are those who are doing illegal things, and whiners. Everybody else doesn't care.

They can tap my phone lines any time they want, if it's going to keep our country safer from terrorists.

Until the day the government calls my wife to tell her I've been chatting with hot chicks on the internet, I just don't give a shit.
FrankNBrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 11th, 2006, 11:26 AM   #6
deuce228
Redneck Poser
 
deuce228's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-07-05
Location: West Branch, MI
Posts: 7,971
iTrader: (8)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankNBrew
The only people who complain are those who are doing illegal things, and whiners. Everybody else doesn't care.

They can tap my phone lines any time they want, if it's going to keep our country safer from terrorists.

Until the day the government calls my wife to tell her I've been chatting with hot chicks on the internet, I just don't give a shit.
x2
deuce228 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 11th, 2006, 12:50 PM   #7
jeepfreak81
81 inches of fun
 
jeepfreak81's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-10-05
Location: Lennon, Mi
Posts: 12,211
iTrader: (21)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to jeepfreak81 Send a message via MSN to jeepfreak81 Send a message via Yahoo to jeepfreak81
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankNBrew
The only people who complain are those who are doing illegal things, and whiners. Everybody else doesn't care.

They can tap my phone lines any time they want, if it's going to keep our country safer from terrorists.

Until the day the government calls my wife to tell her I've been chatting with hot chicks on the internet, I just don't give a shit.

Thats the problem anymore no one cares enough about anything to do something about it. Most people are so jaded to the fact that the laws and constitution all get twisted to mean other things that they don't even try. If it affects their life or income in any sort of inconvenient way they say fukc it Im not bothering with it... I don't do anything illegal (such as terrorism, we all speed) and I sure dont discuss such things on the phone, but dammit If I am talking to a friend or my g/f its no ones business what I am talking about.

The only thing this country seems to care about is who is fucking who... Clinton was impeached for screwing an intern, Bush is totally fucking this country, alienating most of the world, and everyone sits back and say's "eh, I cant do anything about it." The only people that like him are business, and business and $ run the country now, not the people.
jeepfreak81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 11th, 2006, 01:13 PM   #8
Haggar
Covered in mud...
 
Haggar's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-06-05
Location: Oxford, MI
Posts: 17,644
iTrader: (55)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Yep..


You say you don't care if the feds are tracking your calls as long as they bust the terrorists..but where does it end. Is it ok if we put a transmitter in your car to let the police know if you are speeding? It only punishes the people breaking the law.
Haggar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 11th, 2006, 01:39 PM   #9
Lothos
KD8GKB
 
Lothos's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-17-05
Location: .5 past lightspeed
Posts: 6,506
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via ICQ to Lothos Send a message via AIM to Lothos Send a message via Yahoo to Lothos
Default

My first moved thread...I'm so loved...



Anyway, the folks that just don't give a rats ass...them's be the one's that W is counting on as he takes more and more freedoms away. Nothing like the whole frog in a pot of water that you raise the temp on over time to boil em.
Lothos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 11th, 2006, 01:40 PM   #10
Grifter
Human Hunter
 
Grifter's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-06-05
Location: back in "slow"chester
Posts: 1,364
iTrader: (14)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepfreak81
Thats the problem anymore no one cares enough about anything to do something about it. Most people are so jaded to the fact that the laws and constitution all get twisted to mean other things that they don't even try. If it affects their life or income in any sort of inconvenient way they say fukc it Im not bothering with it... I don't do anything illegal (such as terrorism, we all speed) and I sure dont discuss such things on the phone, but dammit If I am talking to a friend or my g/f its no ones business what I am talking about.

The only thing this country seems to care about is who is fucking who... Clinton was impeached for screwing an intern, Bush is totally fucking this country, alienating most of the world, and everyone sits back and say's "eh, I cant do anything about it." The only people that like him are business, and business and $ run the country now, not the people.
do you normally draw generalizations on the rest of civilization, i dont have a dime to my name, and i think hes been great....George W. Bush that is...so feel free to support you comment that only business people like him...

and quit bitching about the phone game, if you think that P.Bush is the first President in your/our lives to consider the need to listen in on phone convo's and track who is calling who, i would wager you are a bit off..granted the patriot act gave our goverment a lil more leway to play here and abroad..this shit has been happening for years (think cold war)..it didnt start yesterday and it wont end tomorrow...deal and move on....

oh and yes lets continue to alienate the rest of the world, the sooner we distance ourselves from them the better...for example the global gun ban initiative..get it in you heads now...200 plus years ago our forefathers fought a bloody war to win the right to govern ourselves from a king on the otherside of the big blue pond...now here we are and lil things like the global gun ban start happening..this shit smells like we are working towards being governed by some group of individuals who may or may not have the best interest of the United States of Americas citizens at the top of their to-do list...think about it...get it straight we are our own country and we need to keep it that way.... this idea is not new either, our country has chosen not sign the Geneva convention or the "Hague Accord"(i think i am miss-firing on the name here, someone correct me), i wonder why not...the consistency speaks for itself....we dont sign shit that the rest of the world signs because we are continuing to uphold the fact that we are our own country ruled internally by chosen leaders....not some random global figure head...feel free to alienate away...fuck em all...



if you can do it better quit bitching and get out and do something...
Grifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 11th, 2006, 01:48 PM   #11
FrankNBrew
Me balls are huge
 
FrankNBrew's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Warren
Posts: 2,543
iTrader: (13)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

My point is that the positives of tracking phone calls far outweighs the negatives for everybody, except those with bad intentions.

I think the security of this nation is far more significant than the "invasion of privacy" I would be subjected to by having someone hear me talking to my wife about what's for dinner. Oh, and by the way, the latest USA Today front page report is not about wire tapping. It's about the companies providing phone call records to the governemnt, not listening in on calls. So I say it again...I don't give a shit.
FrankNBrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 11th, 2006, 01:53 PM   #12
fr3db3ar
KISS MY AVATAR
 
fr3db3ar's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-06-05
Location: Holland
Posts: 5,429
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Send a message via ICQ to fr3db3ar Send a message via AIM to fr3db3ar Send a message via Yahoo to fr3db3ar
Default

Damnit I don't want them knowing who I order my weed from
fr3db3ar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 11th, 2006, 02:04 PM   #13
BRUSER
Senior Member
 
BRUSER's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-08-06
Location: WestSide Michigan
Posts: 1,326
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default Be Careful

I agree that I do not care if they have a list of the numbers I have called, This is the type of activity ( no I'm not a quack) that was in place in the thirty's before the rise of Hitler. I do not believe that this type of government will rise in this country, but at what point will it be limited.?

Only some of my guns are registered.....hang on, someone is knocking at the door.....
BRUSER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 11th, 2006, 02:39 PM   #14
jeepfreak81
81 inches of fun
 
jeepfreak81's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-10-05
Location: Lennon, Mi
Posts: 12,211
iTrader: (21)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to jeepfreak81 Send a message via MSN to jeepfreak81 Send a message via Yahoo to jeepfreak81
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grifter
do you normally draw generalizations on the rest of civilization, i dont have a dime to my name, and i think hes been great....George W. Bush that is...so feel free to support you comment that only business people like him...

and quit bitching about the phone game, if you think that P.Bush is the first President in your/our lives to consider the need to listen in on phone convo's and track who is calling who, i would wager you are a bit off..granted the patriot act gave our goverment a lil more leway to play here and abroad..this shit has been happening for years (think cold war)..it didnt start yesterday and it wont end tomorrow...deal and move on....

oh and yes lets continue to alienate the rest of the world, the sooner we distance ourselves from them the better...for example the global gun ban initiative..get it in you heads now...200 plus years ago our forefathers fought a bloody war to win the right to govern ourselves from a king on the otherside of the big blue pond...now here we are and lil things like the global gun ban start happening..this shit smells like we are working towards being governed by some group of individuals who may or may not have the best interest of the United States of Americas citizens at the top of their to-do list...think about it...get it straight we are our own country and we need to keep it that way.... this idea is not new either, our country has chosen not sign the Geneva convention or the "Hague Accord"(i think i am miss-firing on the name here, someone correct me), i wonder why not...the consistency speaks for itself....we dont sign shit that the rest of the world signs because we are continuing to uphold the fact that we are our own country ruled internally by chosen leaders....not some random global figure head...feel free to alienate away...fuck em all...



if you can do it better quit bitching and get out and do something...

Problem with alienating the world is every damn person/business/nation is moving toward a global economy.. by alienating ourselves we make it MUCH easier for countries to not want to invest in the US... the drawback to this is the US seems to move everything offshore now-days (as far as manufacturing) We will rely completely on these people that hate us so much... doesn't sound like a good position to me. In WW2 most factories in America shut down their normal operations and made tanks and planes for war... currently there are very few factories here that could do that, I HIGHLY doubt that a Toyota factory will drop thir shit to make American tanks to fight a war on that side of the world if needed.

I know he isnt the first president to think about doing phone tapping and monitoring the phone numbers... but as far as I know he is the first to get away with doing it by using the 'fear' of terrorists he has generated, You say that Bush is working for the interests of the American people... his approval ratings do not say that. Im not saying Kerry was better it think they were both fucking morons, but unfortunatly all politicians seem to be anymore.

Quote:
if you can do it better quit bitching and get out and do something...
I would but unfortunatly I HATE politics and dont have a dime to my name... and in this country the only thing that talks or even gets elected is $$ -- on both sides

-- so before you say it -- No im not helping shit by complaining
jeepfreak81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 11th, 2006, 03:02 PM   #15
Grifter
Human Hunter
 
Grifter's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-06-05
Location: back in "slow"chester
Posts: 1,364
iTrader: (14)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

agreed sounds like with clarity we are both in the same sorta position...i hate politics too, namely because of how i see our government performing as a whole these days...and being on a strick income dont help either..however maybe thats just why people like us need to get involved to fundamantaly change the face of politics...

Grifter
Grifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 11th, 2006, 03:49 PM   #16
Stan
I got a gold chain
 
Stan's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-04-05
Location: Shelby Twp.
Posts: 15,691
iTrader: (8)
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Default

Hey, how about you dumb fukc Bush haters that accuse him of all the phone and wire tapping do a little homework.

Quit repeating every fucking thing you hear on CNN.

This Bush is the devil and is fucking up our country is getting pretty old.
The problem with Bush is, he can't communicate worth a damn, and nobody else in the party has a fucking spine to stand up to the so called news people that keep saying this shit.
The liberal bullshit machine is working very well in this country as evidence by the stupid fucking posts here.

Does anyone here know anything about our government before Clinton/Bush.

Start reading and stop talking out of your asses.
Stan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 11th, 2006, 04:20 PM   #17
Grifter
Human Hunter
 
Grifter's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-06-05
Location: back in "slow"chester
Posts: 1,364
iTrader: (14)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan
Hey, how about you dumb fukc Bush haters that accuse him of all the phone and wire tapping do a little homework.

Quit repeating every fucking thing you hear on CNN.

This Bush is the devil and is fucking up our country is getting pretty old.
The problem with Bush is, he can't communicate worth a damn, and nobody else in the party has a fucking spine to stand up to the so called news people that keep saying this shit.
The liberal bullshit machine is working very well in this country as evidence by the stupid fucking posts here.

Does anyone here know anything about our government before Clinton/Bush.

Start reading and stop talking out of your asses.
tell us how you really feel.....
Grifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:10 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright 2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Page generated in 0.72559 seconds with 71 queries