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Old November 29th, 2008, 11:00 PM   #41
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Yota Bill and you are wrong. Take ten minutes and study some simple physics. The factors involved are weight, moment arm, inertia. Doing some simple trig with the moment arms will let you see how it is possible to perform this stunt.

so, just for arguments sake, what weights did you use, and at what distance from the breakover point? did you make up some numbers, or actually look up the correct weights fora specific machine, or did you not even actually do the math?
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Old November 29th, 2008, 11:45 PM   #42
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so what your thinking is that if you get enough weight lifted high enough, start travelling at a high speed, and then slam on the brakes, that will be enough to force the front end to fall down, rotating on the front axle...


good luck with that...

the counterweight is weighted to a point to counteract the max capacity of the loader..and the hydraulic reliefs will not allow you to go over that max capacity


the engineers know the kinds of things owners and operators try to do with these machines, and they are designed not to do this...some newer machines even have some pretty complex electric/hydraulic systems that control suspension, lifting capacity, travel speed, etc...for example ( and this isnt even anything complex, or new) a lot of machines are setup so that if the weight on the loader arms is above a certain percentage, or the height is above a certain point, the trans will not go above 2nd gear, or about 5-7 MPH...


but if you do decide to try this, just make sure everything is safe...besides making sure everyone is clear, and that you are strapped in, also make sure to lock the steering safety bar...trying to put that much weight on the steer cylinders will force them over relief, and could result in loss of control or possibly a rollover...

Shut up shutting up, I'm due to make some money from this fool! Don't confuse him with the facts! Nuggets,I have the equipment you name your model CAT,JD or Komatsu, It will be on hard pack gravel as I don't have access to a BIT surface. If you are as confident as I am $1000.00 shouldn't be a problem as I"m the one supplying the equipment? If you think that's a little steep check out the payments on one of these machines .
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Old November 29th, 2008, 11:54 PM   #43
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Shut up shutting up, I'm due to make some money from this fool! Don't confuse him with the facts! Nuggets,I have the equipment you name your model CAT,JD or Komatsu, It will be on hard pack gravel as I don't have access to a BIT surface. If you are as confident as I am $1000.00 shouldn't be a problem as I"m the one supplying the equipment? If you think that's a little steep check out the payments on one of these machines .
Battle Royale!
I hope if anyone from here attempts those stunts they should film it and post it up here. I thought that video was cool.
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Old November 30th, 2008, 12:05 AM   #44
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so, just for arguments sake, what weights did you use, and at what distance from the breakover point? did you make up some numbers, or actually look up the correct weights fora specific machine, or did you not even actually do the math?

I am not going to turn this into a pissing match Bill. I did not do the calculations but it is entirely possible. I will admit that the machine in the first video has been modified, even to the point of fake counter weights. The machines in the other videos are not modified.

If you want me to get the data, perform the calculations, and post everything here I can.

Without going though a physics lesson, here are the basics of how the stunt works: A very heavy load is placed in the bucket and lifted. This weight in a static condition is obviously not enough to lift the rear of the machine. To acomplish the lift of the rear end I see several things happening. When the load is lifted, the distance from the load to the front axle center increases as the bucket lifts. This increases the moment arm (leverage) that the bucket load can exert if inertia or torque is applied to the bucket. The extra force required to make this machine do a "butt wheelie" is provided by kinetic energy and centrepital energy when the operator does two things. The operator slams on the brakes with the load very high in the air and also drops the load at the same time. This takes the static load of, lets say, 10k pounds and converts it to a bidirectional movement (forward and down) to the tune of (I'm guessing) about 40k pounds. This bidirectional movement imparts a rotation around the front axle centerline in excess of of the weight of the rear of the machine from the front axle centerline. As the rear of the machine lifts up, the moment arm from the front axle to rear LOAD (engine, counterweight, dead mouse behind tail light) becomes shorter in relation to the moment arm of the front load. As the rear of the machine lifts up the operator adjusts the front load and wheel torque to compensate for the loss of inertia initially provided by hard braking and dropping of the bucket.

We can get into alot of things that will show how a 10k pound load can lift the ass of a 100k pound piece of equipment(think of how how a skinny kid can lift a fat kid on a see-saw). The point is moot. The video evidence shows that a heavily laden front end loader with the load high in the air traveling at some speed, then the brakes aggressivly applied will lift the back of the machine off the ground.

In the first video I think the machine has been modified so less weight needs to be in the bucket to accomplish a "butt wheelie". You may be right on the counterweight thing but I also believe that any restrictor orfices that may have been used to slow the downstroke of the payloader arms may have been removed so the bucket comes down much faster than normal.
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Old November 30th, 2008, 12:13 AM   #45
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I am not going to turn this into a pissing match Bill. I did not do the calculations but it is entirely possible. I will admit that the machine in the first video has been modified, even to the point of fake counter weights. The machines in the other videos are not modified.

If you want me to get the data, perform the calculations, and post everything here I can.

Without going though a physics lesson, here are the basics of how the stunt works: A very heavy load is placed in the bucket and lifted. This weight in a static condition is obviously not enough to lift the rear of the machine. To acomplish the lift of the rear end I see several things happening. When the load is lifted, the distance from the load to the front axle center increases as the bucket lifts. This increases the moment arm (leverage) that the bucket load can exert if inertia or torque is applied to the bucket. The extra force required to make this machine do a "butt wheelie" is provided by kinetic energy and centrepital energy when the operator does two things. The operator slams on the brakes with the load very high in the air and also drops the load at the same time. This takes the static load of, lets say, 10k pounds and converts it to a bidirectional movement (forward and down) to the tune of (I'm guessing) about 40k pounds. This bidirectional movement imparts a rotation around the front axle centerline in excess of of the weight of the rear of the machine from the front axle centerline. As the rear of the machine lifts up, the moment arm from the front axle to rear LOAD (engine, counterweight, dead mouse behind tail light) becomes shorter in relation to the moment arm of the front load. As the rear of the machine lifts up the operator adjusts the front load and wheel torque to compensate for the loss of inertia initially provided by hard braking and dropping of the bucket.

We can get into alot of things that will show how a 10k pound load can lift the ass of a 100k pound piece of equipment(think of how how a skinny kid can lift a fat kid on a see-saw). The point is moot. The video evidence shows that a heavily laden front end loader with the load high in the air traveling at some speed, then the brakes aggressivly applied will lift the back of the machine off the ground.

In the first video I think the machine has been modified so less weight needs to be in the bucket to accomplish a "butt wheelie". You may be right on the counterweight thing but I also believe that any restrictor orfices that may have been used to slow the downstroke of the payloader arms may have been removed so the bucket comes down much faster than normal.

owned
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Old November 30th, 2008, 12:17 AM   #46
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Back in the early 90s, my dad's work had front end loaders (don't remember the models) that had forks on the front. They would use them to move lumber and then later on steel rail. When the steel rail was on there just driving them around would lift the rear tires off the ground. Now granted it was just barely off the ground when moving- you put anything heavy enough on the front of a loader it will pull it over.

So the question then becomes- is a loader is strong enough to lift a weight to over come the physics of the counter weights. From what I seen I would say yes. Now they may have limiters or safety measures on them now- but the rear wheels just skimming the ground when moving through the yard was pretty nerve wracking.
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Old November 30th, 2008, 12:20 AM   #47
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I just went back and read some of the stuff posted after my initial statement: Damn IDIdiesel man, I've had some discussions with you in the past and you've never come across as a hard ass. As for Yota Bill, we've had technical discussions before so your comments/discussion as to the plausibilty of this are nice.

The money: My family comes first. I can't afford to loose 1000 bucks on an interweb chest beating contest should I be wrong. Say want you want, I'll take the verbal bashing vs. letting my family down. The whole idea of the money thing was to get some cash from somebody (or group) should I succeed with this (out of hand) situation. Should I do this it will take some work on my part to figure out the right conditions to pull this off. I just wanted somebody to benefit (charity) from my hard work should I be successful. As I said before, I make all the calls or it does not happen, especially braking on a hard surface.

Last edited by Nuggets; November 30th, 2008 at 12:28 AM.
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Old November 30th, 2008, 12:58 AM   #48
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OK, it's getting late and I've got things to do tomorrow. I doubt anybody in their right mind will allow me to take a machine worth hundreds of thousands of dollars and make it do "butt wheelies".

Here's how I see this situation playing out:

1) All parties involved are convinced that they are right, people forget about this string and continue to bash A.J. Hall.

2) An equipment owner diagnosed with terminal toenail cancer sees this thread and admires my spunk. Since the equipment owner has nothing to loose he decides to let a middle aged bald guy beat the snot out of his payloader for shear amusement. Bald dude is successful with "butt wheelie" and the crowed goes wild. Yota Bill and IDIdieselman shake their heads in disbelief at Nugget's cerebral prowess.

3) IDIdieselman allows Nuggets to attemp "butt wheelie" in a loader provided by his employer. After numerous attemps, recalcultions, and cans of Red Bull, Nuggets finds that modern payloaders are designed to keep dipshit operators from killing themselves when they overload buckets, place them high in the air, and slam on the brakes. Nuggets has a great time beating the tar out of a machine that does not belong to him. After the failure of the "butt wheelie" experiment, Nuggets returns to GL4x4 to be mocked and humiliated by all. Nuggets is raped by Fatty Matty. The entire off roading community of Michigan will no longer allow him to their tea parties. IDIdieselman and Yota Bill high five each other while simultainously urinating on my avatar.

Last edited by Nuggets; November 30th, 2008 at 01:19 AM.
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Old November 30th, 2008, 01:14 AM   #49
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OK, it's getting late and I've got things to do tomorrow. I doubt anybody in their right mind will allow me to take a machine worth hundreds of thousands of dollars and make it do "butt wheelies".

Here's how I see this situation playing out:

1) All parties involved are convinced that they are right, people forget about this string and continue to bash A.J. Hall.

2) An equipment owner diagnosed with terminal toenail cancer sees this thread and admires my spunk. Since the equipment owner has nothing to loose he decides to let a middle aged bald guy beat the snot out of his payloader for shear amusement. Bald dude is successful with "butt wheelie" and the crowed goes wild. Yota Bill and IDIdieselman shake their heads in disbelief at Nugget's cerebral prowess.

3) IDIdieselman allows Nuggets to attemp "butt wheelie" in a loader provided by his employer. After numerous attemps, recalcultions, and cans of Red Bull, Nuggets finds that modern payloaders are designed to keep dipshit operators from killing themselves when they overload buckets, place them high in the air, and slam on the brakes. Nuggets has a great time beating the tar out of a machine that does not belong to him. After the failure of the "butt wheelie" experiment, Nuggets returns to GL4x4 to be mocked and humiliated by all. Nuggets is raped by Fatty Matty. The entire off roading community of Michigan will no longer allow him to their tea parties. IDIdieselman and Yota Bill high five each other while simultainously uninating on my avatar.
Nuggets, Rape by Fatty Matty was not part of the deal, I wil not be a part of such violations win or lose, It's obvious you are well educated ,I just run the shit. I love you man! P.S. The equipment to be used is under lease and a pit accident is not out of the ordinary. You would be suprised how many idiots can put a machine on it's side on level ground.

Last edited by IDIeselman; November 30th, 2008 at 01:18 AM.
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Old November 30th, 2008, 01:21 AM   #50
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Nuggets, Rape by Fatty Matty was not part of the deal, I wil not be a part of such violations win or lose, It's obvious you are well educated ,I just run the shit. I love you man! P.S. The equipment to be used is under lease and a pit accident is not out of the ordinary. You would be suprised how many idiots can put a machine on it's side on level ground.
*sniff* I'm glad we can all get along.
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Old November 30th, 2008, 03:02 AM   #51
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im pretty sure our volvo L120 will do a butt wheelie. it burns so much oil right now, that just putting it in reverse and dropping the hammer, will burn enough oil fast enough that it will actually suck in the oilpan and burn it as well. im sure the crank, rods and block would all be simultaneously get burned as well. with the extreme weight loss so quick, it would just fall over frontwards with the slight bit of hydraulic pressure that the momentary engine existence provided.

i dont think i would ever actually attempt something like this. just carrying connex's at or near the lifting capacity around the jobsite brings the rear tires up enough that when i turn, the rear end just sways around like a fish tail in the air. ive never had the tires over about 2' or so, and that is scary enough for me. i dont want that weight anywhere above my head.
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Old November 30th, 2008, 03:15 AM   #52
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lol... all this over a buttwheelie hahahaha
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Old November 30th, 2008, 03:18 AM   #53
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Did anyone look at the videos I posted? It looked to me like the loader operators had a lot of weight in the bucket and put the brakes on pretty damned hard to get the rear wheels off the ground. Doing this with no weight in th bucket seems impossible without some mods. Sure, if the brakes were strong enough, you wouldn't even need the bucket to be raised. The thing is that if a loader were able to get the back wheels up by driving with an empty bucket raised and hitting the brakes, don't you think that they would add some kind of weights so that doesn't happen?
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Old November 30th, 2008, 04:17 AM   #54
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no, i didnt watch the video's. i feel that my life will be able to be complete, even without seeing them. if not, then when i am on my deathbed, i wont be able to pass away, since my life wouldnt be complete. id have to get better so i could come back here and view them.

no, a stock loader will not be able to do a "butt wheelie" (im not sure where this came from, we call them "stoppies") with an emtpy bucket. as argued, even with a full bucket, it would be very hard to do.
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Old November 30th, 2008, 04:48 AM   #55
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my dicks biggest and I can piss longer, harder and faster than anybody else

Why anybody would actually wager money on something as stupid as this is beyond me
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Old November 30th, 2008, 06:59 AM   #56
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my dicks biggest and I can piss longer, harder and faster than anybody else

Why anybody would actually wager money on something as stupid as this is beyond me
Its what manly men do.
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Old November 30th, 2008, 09:40 AM   #57
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OK, it's getting late and I've got things to do tomorrow. I doubt anybody in their right mind will allow me to take a machine worth hundreds of thousands of dollars and make it do "butt wheelies".

Here's how I see this situation playing out:

1) All parties involved are convinced that they are right, people forget about this string and continue to bash A.J. Hall.

2) An equipment owner diagnosed with terminal toenail cancer sees this thread and admires my spunk. Since the equipment owner has nothing to loose he decides to let a middle aged bald guy beat the snot out of his payloader for shear amusement. Bald dude is successful with "butt wheelie" and the crowed goes wild. Yota Bill and IDIdieselman shake their heads in disbelief at Nugget's cerebral prowess.

3) IDIdieselman allows Nuggets to attemp "butt wheelie" in a loader provided by his employer. After numerous attemps, recalcultions, and cans of Red Bull, Nuggets finds that modern payloaders are designed to keep dipshit operators from killing themselves when they overload buckets, place them high in the air, and slam on the brakes. Nuggets has a great time beating the tar out of a machine that does not belong to him. After the failure of the "butt wheelie" experiment, Nuggets returns to GL4x4 to be mocked and humiliated by all. Nuggets is raped by Fatty Matty. The entire off roading community of Michigan will no longer allow him to their tea parties. IDIdieselman and Yota Bill high five each other while simultainously urinating on my avatar.


I'll vote number 1....so who is A.J. Hall, and when does the bashing begin?
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Old November 30th, 2008, 11:09 AM   #58
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its not always dipshit operators i jumped out of a case 321 and went to the owner of the company i worked for because my dipshit boss was bitching at me to try to pick up like 6 tons of stone with 4 foot forks and load a flatbed because he was in a hurry
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Old November 30th, 2008, 11:25 AM   #59
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Doing that in a skid loader is very easy. Done it many times.

I seen them do it at a monster jam at the silverdome one time and decided to try it myself. The weight of the bucket in the air, combined with change in direction will bring the back tires right off the ground.

Doing wheelies is even easier.
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Old November 30th, 2008, 12:06 PM   #60
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Doing that in a skid loader is very easy. Done it many times.

I seen them do it at a monster jam at the silverdome one time and decided to try it myself. The weight of the bucket in the air, combined with change in direction will bring the back tires right off the ground.

Doing wheelies is even easier.
remove any attachments from the front of a skid steer, then go full reverse to full foward....



then climb out and get another machine to push it back on its wheels... LOL
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