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Old November 20th, 2008, 02:01 PM   #41
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X2
I've had the same thought - they knew they were going to eat the hand that feeds them.

~ be back to $3 for thanksgiving ~

dude you're crazy - maybe $2.25 at the most
I bet it wont get higher than 1.99....
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Old November 20th, 2008, 02:11 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by All5ofus View Post
X2
I've had the same thought - they knew they were going to eat the hand that feeds them.

~ be back to $3 for thanksgiving ~

dude you're crazy - maybe $2.25 at the most
sarcasm!
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Old November 20th, 2008, 03:42 PM   #43
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What is funnier is that people never learn from it.
True that.
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Old November 20th, 2008, 04:14 PM   #44
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but they made luxury suv's for 20 years and you just bought one in the fall
Not sure what kind of retarded ass calendar you use, but July is not "in the fall".

I am pretty sure that was when gas was highest.
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Old November 20th, 2008, 04:31 PM   #45
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It is 1.99 all over Birmingham now, and a couple places as low as $1.88.

Its been about .30/gallon more than you guys since we moved here..ugh.
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Old November 20th, 2008, 05:28 PM   #46
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There are a couple reason for the drop, First they have been working to remove this from the futures and base it back on supply and demand. But the biggest reason is that to many are working towards freeing us from being fossil fuel dependent, huge programs and goverment grants. Look at what just happened to Pickens. His huge project was just cut in half because it doesn't make since with lower fuel cost. The oil giants will hold long enough to kill off all of these programs... including the Volt, because people won't be able to justify the cost. When they are all abandon.... fuel prices will work thier way back up. This isn't the first time this has happened. We have a little time. Short of ol'mole face adding a huge tax. If she does we should all band together and propose adding another .01 so she could get that mole removed.
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Old November 20th, 2008, 05:43 PM   #47
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There are a couple reason for the drop, First they have been working to remove this from the futures and base it back on supply and demand. But the biggest reason is that to many are working towards freeing us from being fossil fuel dependent, huge programs and goverment grants. Look at what just happened to Pickens. His huge project was just cut in half because it doesn't make since with lower fuel cost. The oil giants will hold long enough to kill off all of these programs... including the Volt, because people won't be able to justify the cost. When they are all abandon.... fuel prices will work thier way back up. This isn't the first time this has happened. We have a little time. Short of ol'mole face adding a huge tax. If she does we should all band together and propose adding another .01 so she could get that mole removed.
AWK

I wouldnt mind paying an extra tax to get that mole removed, as long as it stays attached to her face....
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Old November 20th, 2008, 05:48 PM   #48
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It's to take care of the roads though. I hate higher taxes, but Christ the roads need to be improved.
bullshit

we already pay a shit-ton of taxes and our roads suck. if we pay more our roads will still suck
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Old November 20th, 2008, 05:53 PM   #49
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bullshit

we already pay a shit-ton of taxes and our roads suck. if we pay more our roads will still suck
I'm definitely not an expert on the topic, but it seems that until some breakthrough occurs in freeze/thaw roadway engineering, they're still going to blow. Even recently constructed concrete freeways are failing after 5 years.

Every place has its downfall - New Orleans is going to flood again, landslides and earthquakes are going to occur in California, and Michigan's roads are going to suck.
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Old November 20th, 2008, 05:53 PM   #50
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bullshit

we already pay a shit-ton of taxes and our roads suck. if we pay more our roads will still suck
Hey, don't shoot the messenger.

Our roads will still suck because they're too cheap to make them as thick as they should be. I've always heard that John Carlos which does a lot of the roads always skimps on some of the requirements. Who knows if there is any truth to that.
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Old November 20th, 2008, 05:56 PM   #51
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Hey, don't shoot the messenger.

Our roads will still suck because they're too cheap to make them as thick as they should be. I've always heard that John Carlos which does a lot of the roads always skimps on some of the requirements. Who knows if there is any truth to that.
I don't doubt it a bit. Maybe that's the breakthrough I mentioned above - not just accepting the cheapest bid, and watching the contractor like a hawk. The south beltline highway near Grand Rapids is failing in spots right now after 3 years of use because the contractor cut corners.
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Old November 20th, 2008, 06:15 PM   #52
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I've always heard that John Carlos which does a lot of the roads always skimps on some of the requirements. Who knows if there is any truth to that.
I have always seen DOT people on the sites testing and inspecting things


I think it is the weight of trucks
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Old November 20th, 2008, 06:33 PM   #53
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I think it is the weight of trucks
Are a lot of semis near the maximum permitted weight?

If you halve the permitted weight for trucks, the shipping cost for all goods would thereoretically go up 50%. What is the greater burden on society - that extra cost for goods, just dealing with bad roads, or paying an extra tax to build more durable roads that can support the big trucks?
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Old November 20th, 2008, 06:36 PM   #54
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Are a lot of semis near the maximum permitted weight?

If you halve the permitted weight for trucks, the shipping cost for all goods would thereoretically go up 50%. What is the greater burden on society - that extra cost for goods, just dealing with bad roads, or paying an extra tax to build more durable roads that can support the big trucks?

almost all of the states in the US have a 80,000 lb gross weight allowance. MI has a 160,000 lb gross.

TWICE the normal amount? all the other states use 80k. why can't we?
please Don't say that the road projects would cost more because of the trucking increase.
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Old November 20th, 2008, 06:38 PM   #55
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PS. average personal vehicles weigh between 3000 and 7000 lbs. I don't think they are tearing up the roads.
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Old November 20th, 2008, 06:39 PM   #56
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almost all of the states in the US have a 80,000 lb gross weight allowance. MI has a 160,000 lb gross.

TWICE the normal amount? all the other states use 80k. why can't we?
please Don't say that the road projects would cost more because of the trucking increase.
I didn't know that.

I wasn't saying road projects would cost more because of the trucking increase, I was implying that you may pay $1.50 for a head of lettuce instead of $1.25, $x.xx for X instead of $x.xx, etc. You name it. But, that argument is null if other states already regulate trucks to 80k.
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Old November 20th, 2008, 06:49 PM   #57
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no but i heard rumor that by tomarow evening... It will jump from 1.70's up to well over 3.00 glad i just put the last 49 gallons in my Storage Tank

Oh and by thanks giving we're looking back at $4 mark
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Old November 20th, 2008, 06:51 PM   #58
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I didn't know that.

I wasn't saying road projects would cost more because of the trucking increase, I was implying that you may pay $1.50 for a head of lettuce instead of $1.25, $x.xx for X instead of $x.xx, etc. You name it. But, that argument is null if other states already regulate trucks to 80k.
yes. 99.99% of the trucks that deliver everyday products are on a 80k truck. all the heavy trucks are intrtastate trucks. gravel trains, steel haulers are the heavy trucks. anything with more than 5-6 axles on it. (some 6 axle trucks are used on class B roads and during frost laws)
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Old November 20th, 2008, 06:53 PM   #59
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no but i heard rumor that by tomarow evening... It will jump from 1.70's up to well over 3.00 glad i just put the last 49 gallons in my Storage Tank

Oh and by thanks giving we're looking back at $4 mark
I heard that too at the liquor store. so I drove home and got all my gas cans and even a few empty milk containers and pop bottles and filled them with gas so I have a stock pile.
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Old November 20th, 2008, 07:15 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by mtnbikinbryno View Post
I'm definitely not an expert on the topic, but it seems that until some breakthrough occurs in freeze/thaw roadway engineering, they're still going to blow. Even recently constructed concrete freeways are failing after 5 years.

Every place has its downfall - New Orleans is going to flood again, landslides and earthquakes are going to occur in California, and Michigan's roads are going to suck.
You can literally blame the condition of our roads in part on the unions. The technology and engineering to build high quality roads has been around for a long time. Roads in the UK are built to last for more than 30 years, and they do. They have the same weather as many parts of the US. We don't use that technology and engineering. Our roads are designed to last less than 10 years. Why? If you build roads that last 30+ years, you don't need to employ as many road crews to build roads, repave roads, patch potholes, fix cracks, etc... Roads in MI are worse than average due to the weight of trucks as discussed above. I've also wondered about the conspiracy theory that MI roads are let fall apart because that results in cars wearing out faster. That in turn results in more new car sales. I doubt it could ever be proven, but I always wonder.
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