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Old October 21st, 2008, 12:55 PM   #1
SilverDollar
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Default Michigan Prop 2

This was written by a close friend. I agree that we should at least allow the research. If you disapprove, you can tell your doctor that you don't want the benefits from the research.
Cliff notes to follow:


The 2008 election is upon us and I am writing to you as an informant of Proposal 2 on the Michigan Ballot Ė STEM CELL RESEARCH. The purpose of this proposal is as follows: Proposed constitutional amendment to permit with certain limitations stem cell research in Michigan.

For those of you who are not familiar with the proposal or for those of you who have seen the recent television commercials asking for you to vote No, please read this email and make your own informed decision in hopes that your vote is YES on Proposal 2! The TV commercials are a mere lie and do not give you the entire story.
Proposal 2 has one purpose: to allow researchers the ability to find the cures and therapies that millions of Michigan families desperately need.

The procedure required to conduct vital stem cell research is criminalized in Michigan, even though it holds the greatest hope of cures for deadly and debilitating diseases and conditions including Parkinsonís, diabetes, cancer, Alzheimerís, sickle cell anemia and spinal cord injuries.

Finding cures for the worst diseases we know is in our grasp. Finding cures is the right thing to do for Michigan families who deserve to have hope, and need help.

I am not usually an advocate of government issues but Proposal 2 hits very close to home for me. I was diagnosed with Type I Diabetes over 28 years ago. It has been a very rocky road over the years to which the disease has also given me the privilege of 3 eye surgeries due to Diabetic Retinopathy and most recently I was diagnosed with Kidney Disease. There is no known cure for Diabetes (yet) and there is no known cure for Kidney Disease (yet). But with the recent findings of Stem Cell Research, these diseases are providing HOPE and better yet CURES for these diseases and many more!

If you truly know me, I am not one to cry about my health issues or complain that itís not fair or why me? I accept my diseases and try to manage them to the best of my ability. My family has been the greatest strength over the years and now my husband has taken over the reigns of keeping me in-line with what/how the doctors advise my condition (I can be a bit bull headed at times with the doctors). I look forward to the day when Jon, me, and my family can breathe easy and know that I am doing better than just managing my condition. I look forward to the day when I no longer have to give myself insulin shots, check my blood sugar or take a mountain of pills to keep my body functioning at a level most of you couldnít imagine. Thatís why Proposal 2 is so important to me. It should be just as important to you. I am not the only person you know who can benefit from stem cell research. Look around you Ė there are so many people affected by diseases that can be potentially cured. The only thing thatís stopping it is the US Government!


I have attached a chart of truths. Please take a moment to read through them if you are still planning to vote No on Proposal 2 because of the recent bad press as it relates to the proposal. There is a also a great website about Stem Cell Research. I encourage all of you to visit the site: http://curemichigan.com/

If you or a loved one could benefit from Stem Cell Research, wouldnít you make it a point to educate everyone you know? Iím trying, one person at a time. I appreciate your support of Proposal 2. Vote YES on Proposal 2. I know I will.

My sincere thanks for all of you, who will/do support Proposal 2. Thank you!!




Cliff: Vote Yes on 2. It holds promise to cure many ills.
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Old October 21st, 2008, 01:09 PM   #2
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But with the recent findings of Stem Cell Research, these diseases are providing HOPE and better yet CURES for these diseases and many more!
Embryonic stem cell research have yielded ZERO CURES. Adult stem cell reseach has already provided CURES for many diseases. There is no reason to pass prop 2.

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Old October 21st, 2008, 01:15 PM   #3
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2 goes 2 far
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Old October 21st, 2008, 01:25 PM   #4
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Embryonic stem cell research have yielded ZERO CURES. Adult stem cell reseach has already provided CURES for many diseases. There is no reason to pass prop 2.
How dare you present facts over emotionalism!!!!!!

Bad person, bad!!!
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Old October 21st, 2008, 01:25 PM   #5
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What all is involved in getting embryonic stem cells? What is the controversy?
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Old October 21st, 2008, 01:37 PM   #6
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What all is involved in getting embryonic stem cells? What is the controversy?
Playing God is one of the objections I have.

From what I have read into it (admittedly little) the intent is to harvest them from donors that have decided to not use the frozen embryo's they have on storage at various fertility clinics - among other potential sources.

The other side of the argument would argue that these are not fetuses, and attempts to downplay the significance by mentioning that these are collections of cells no larger than the end of a pencil.

To them, I ask - when does life begin?

I confess I have a tough time attempting to tell a woman what to do with her body... but the flip side is that Science attempts to push the boundary of where/when and how it can preserve life from early birth, to long past what most would consider heroic efforts into old age. How sad that we rarely stop to pause and ask why?

Life is terminal.

Lest anyone think I'm looking at this from a very cold hearted/naive point of view:

ē my Father is languishing in an institution after 20+ years suffering from Parkinson's, which has progressed into dementia

ē my 9 month old nephew died a couple of years ago after 6 months of suffering from debilitating bilateral seizures that could not be controlled unless he was put in a medically induced coma, that were also not controlled with aggressive brain surgery.

ē I am a 20+ year survivor of cancer
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Old October 21st, 2008, 01:39 PM   #7
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It allows the use of embryos (not fetuses) that are being thrown away by fertility clinics. I guess the religious fanatics would rather the embryos be flushed down the toilet instead of being used for the common good. No cures have been found yet, but there has been very little availability of new cells.
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Old October 21st, 2008, 01:42 PM   #8
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It allows the use of embryos (not fetuses) that are being thrown away by fertility clinics. I guess the religious fanatics would rather the embryos be flushed down the toilet instead of being used for the common good. No cures have been found yet, but there has been very little availability of new cells.
i am not a religious fanatic i just don't want or over population to continue saving lives causes food shortages
i don't care do what you want just do it professionally
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Old October 21st, 2008, 01:45 PM   #9
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It allows the use of embryos (not fetuses) that are being thrown away by fertility clinics. I guess the religious fanatics would rather the embryos be flushed down the toilet instead of being used for the common good. No cures have been found yet, but there has been very little availability of new cells.
nice inflammatory message there. if you honestly believe there are anyone involved in proposing it that are pursuing this type of work out of their altruistic nature directed at the common good then you are clueless.

there is the potential for big money in any medical procedure, treatment, cure, or drug. that potential has lobbyists, and venture capitol firms salivating at the thought...

Greed is what is driving this proposal, and they're using the heart strings of those that are suffering, or related to those that suffer to disguise it.
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Old October 21st, 2008, 01:48 PM   #10
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i am not a religious fanatic i just don't want or over population to continue saving lives causes food shortages
i don't care do what you want just do it professionally
You really need to get out of the deep end of the pool and go back to the pub where your irrational, poorly spelled, barely legible rantings may be appropriate or even remotely appreciated.
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Old October 21st, 2008, 01:56 PM   #11
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Religion is the ONLY reason we do not have Embryonic stem cell research. PERIOD.

If you want to know why embryonic stem cells are different than adult stem cells, PM me.
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Old October 21st, 2008, 01:58 PM   #12
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nice inflammatory message there. if you honestly believe there are anyone involved in proposing it that are pursuing this type of work out of their altruistic nature directed at the common good then you are clueless.

there is the potential for big money in any medical procedure, treatment, cure, or drug. that potential has lobbyists, and venture capitol firms salivating at the thought...

Greed is what is driving this proposal, and they're using the heart strings of those that are suffering, or related to those that suffer to disguise it.
I didn't realisze that this was an inflamitory statement...I feel the opportunity to explore this science is needed.

I agree that health care cost has gotten out of hand and you state the root cause: "potential has lobbyists, and venture capitol firms salivating at the thought..." - But this discussion is not what this thread was intended for...

I too have health issues where I think the stem cell study could, in some time, alleviate. I think it, at least, deserves to be studied.
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Old October 21st, 2008, 02:03 PM   #13
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I too have health issues where I think the stem cell study could, in some time, alleviate. I think it, at least, deserves to be studied.
It is ALREADY being studied, but not on my dime, and I want to keep it that way.

Stick with the facts, adult stem cell research has proven itself, embryonic has not, because no actual results have been had. Stick with the facts on this issue.
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Old October 21st, 2008, 02:12 PM   #14
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Default article from 2005 its a dead end!

Big research firms quit funding on this because they feel its a dead end now Obama wants us to continue paying for it....

just a clip form this article

I feel peoples heart strings are being pulled for no reason. pay attenion to paragraph 6



June 24, 2005
Federal Stem Cell Research: What Taxpayers Should Know
by Kelly Hollowell, J.D., Ph.D., Philip H. Coelho, The Honorable David Weldon, M.D., and Robert E. Moffit, Ph.D.
Heritage Lecture #888








A second ethical issue lies in the extreme inefficiency of harvesting embryonic stem cells. Specifically, the process requires womenís eggs. To treat, for example, only the 17 million diabetes patients in the United States would require a minimum of 850 million to 1.7 billion human eggs. You can literally envision women becoming egg factories. Collecting 10 eggs per donor will require a minimum of 85 million to 170 million women, and the total cost would be astronomical, at $100,000Ė $200,000 for 50 to 100 human eggs per each patient.

Even more important than the dollars and the difficulty associated with therapeutic cloning is that the process of harvesting a womanís eggs for stem cells places a woman at risk. Specifically, superovulation regimens for fertility treatments would be used to obtain womenís eggs. The risks associated with high-dose hormone therapy are debated, but there is a growing body of evidence that these practices, when used for standard IVF, can cause various problems. These problems include memory loss, seizure, bone loss, lupus, joint pain, baldness, stroke, brain damage, infertility, cancer, and death. And this is under the conditions of IVF, not under the conditions for which we would need to produce eggs in large quantities for research purposes. Clearly, this points to yet another ethical issue: the future commercial exploitation of women, particularly poor women, to collect their eggs.

As for obstacles in standard embryonic stem cell researchóresearch where you would not create a clone of yourself but would perhaps go after the embryos created through sperm and egg and currently frozen in IVF facilities across the nation to the tune of 400,000 or soóno currently approved treatments have been obtained using embryonic stem cells. There are no human trials despite all the hype and all the media. After 20 years of research, embryonic stem cells havenít been used to treat people because the cells are unproven and unsafe. When they are used in animal models they tend to produce tumors, cause transplant rejection, and form the wrong kinds of cells. It will be a minimum of 10 years before treatments might be available, and that is a very optimistic prediction. The successes in animal models are modest and rare. What are those successes? They have had the success of teasing the master stem cells down into specific cell types, specifically neural cells, blood cells, heart cells, and pancreatic islet cells. One big problem that they have faced in the animal models is rejection. This is almost predictable since it would be like you transplanting your organ into me without any efforts at a match taking place. So therapeutic cloning is introduced as an alternative to avoid this tissue rejection.

Successful Alternatives. The alternative research is adult stem cell research, which is an ethical alternative. For more than two decades, we have been treating more than 58 different types of diseases using adult stem cell research. Some of the most startling advancements using adult stem cells have come in treating Parkinsonís disease, juvenile diabetes, and spinal cord injuries. And the sources for this adult stem cell research clearly do not present any ethical problems because you use blood, placenta, fat cells, and, most notably, the cord blood, which Mr. Coelho will talk about in a few minutes.

To review: Standard embryonic stem cell research creates embryos with the sperm and the egg, and therapeutic cloning creates embryos of oneís self. Both procedures are fraught with obstacles. That means if you pursue therapeutic cloning for the purpose of extracting stem cells from the genetic clone, you are combining all of the risks and problems associated with embryonic stem cell research with all of the problems associated with cloning. Obtaining the high number of eggs required in cloning puts women at great risk. Embryonic stem cell research requires human sacrifice, and there are currently no cures in sight. Adult stem cell research does not involve the same ethical obstacles. Nor does it cause rejection; nor does it cause tumors; nor does it cause genetic instability. In fact, it has been, for more than two decades, treating thousands of people.

The Use of Tax Dollars. So should our tax dollars be spent on embryonic stem cell research? The answer is: No. The scientific data on embryonic stem cell research simply do not support the continued investment in research. Many researchers have failed. Even private investors are not backing this, and that is a strong indication of the lack of success. Even if it was successful, it is clear that embryonic stem cell research is morally bankrupt and endangers women, while adult stem cell research doesnít present any of these problems.

I want to tell you something very personal as I close. A lot of people retort to me that perhaps Iím not interested enough in cures, but Iím very interested in curesóand not just for people I donít know. My own grandmother died of Parkinsonís disease; my father died of cancer; and my baby was diagnosed in utero at 15 weeks with a genetic disease. That affects me tremendously.

Even if I did not have all of the ethical objections that I do to embryonic stem cell research, I assure you there is absolutely no hope being offered by embryonic stem cell research to cure my baby, to have cured my father or my grandmother. The cures are in adult stem cell research, and we need to turn the focus and attention to that and not to the exploitation of our unborn children and our women as egg factories for this research.
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Old October 21st, 2008, 02:13 PM   #15
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I didn't realisze that this was an inflamitory statement...I feel the opportunity to explore this science is needed.

I agree that health care cost has gotten out of hand and you state the root cause: "potential has lobbyists, and venture capitol firms salivating at the thought..." - But this discussion is not what this thread was intended for...

I too have health issues where I think the stem cell study could, in some time, alleviate. I think it, at least, deserves to be studied.
Very few people (sports fans aside) like to be referred to as fanatics.

I asked the question early on, when does life begin? Too many politicians and even non-politicians dance around that issue - for one it seems like every year the viability of a fetus gets pushed back earlier and earlier.

How long before we are able to "carry" a full term fetus entirely outside of the womb, and in a laboratory/petri dish/incubator?

Laws exist on the books that enable in some cases abortions to be performed at gestational periods that have been proven to be survivable.

At the same time, often in the same locales, there are laws that make it a major felony to intentionally harm a fetus - in some places it is prosecuted as homicide. I have to admit I struggle with the distinction that just because it's under the guise of medicine, or science that someone is legally able to commit what can be prosecuted as murder elsewhere. Or flush an embryo down the toilet for that matter...

Science has definitely made many improvements to our quality of life - I would submit however, that without some form of moral compass to stop and ask why from time to time; that it often runs headlong into areas that are horrific. (Witness the Japanese, and German "science" experiments on prisoner's of war.)
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Old October 21st, 2008, 02:19 PM   #16
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It is ALREADY being studied, but not on my dime, and I want to keep it that way.

Stick with the facts, adult stem cell research has proven itself, embryonic has not, because no actual results have been had. Stick with the facts on this issue.
Just because results have not been found yet doesn't mean we should stop. This is why we should push further into this idea. We could be missing huge advances in medicine if we stop. The only way to find out is to keep at it.

Your silly religion clouds your thinking on these types of issues. If you look at it from a scientific perspective, without religious bias, you would see that it is beneficial.
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Old October 21st, 2008, 02:23 PM   #17
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Just because results have not been found yet doesn't mean we should stop. This is why we should push further into this idea. We could be missing huge advances in medicine if we stop. The only way to find out is to keep at it.

Your silly religion clouds your thinking on these types of issues. If you look at it from a scientific perspective, without religious bias, you would see that it is beneficial.
if you looked at it from a capitalistic point of view, and realized that the venture capitalists, and best/brightest in the field have already pulled funding out because there's no future in it you would see that it's infinitely more beneficial to ignore obama's desire to tax the ever living crap out of our country by funding pointless pet projects, and adding to the tremendous entitlement programs already on the books...

I posted, what I believe was a religion-free point of view on the issue - sure there are deep philosophical questions that are in there such as when life begins, but I specifically avoided the religious view on it.
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Old October 21st, 2008, 02:30 PM   #18
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just finished reading another article on this subject, research was shut down for 10 years because it was causing Leaukemia inresearch animals, they spent the next 10 years perfecting and fixing their cell implant process it happened again almost instantly, the article says research to fix this problem is semi-inexpensive but they are pushing it forward without even being able to use it safley, this isnt a silly religion issue this is a basic greed issue gimme more money to study somthing flawed, i dont want to fix whats wrong but iwould rather take government funding to research this. it comes down to what the public wants to believe, are at least honest about why they dont want it... read the article i posted it has some honest reason and also points out that "whoever" makes it work will be extremely rich. that is the real motivation.
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Old October 21st, 2008, 02:30 PM   #19
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The religeous stand point comes from ones belief/understanding of when human life begins if you feel it begins at conception then 2 does go to far as you are dealing with a human life. Regardless of the benifits you are taking one life for another.
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Old October 21st, 2008, 02:51 PM   #20
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It is ALREADY being studied, but not on my dime, and I want to keep it that way.

Stick with the facts, adult stem cell research has proven itself, embryonic has not, because no actual results have been had. Stick with the facts on this issue.
Stick to the facts? Where does it say "your dime" will be used. As I see it, it will be privately funded. There is nothing in Prop. 2 related to taxes. Embryonic research needs a chance.
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