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Old October 9th, 2008, 02:29 PM   #41
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They did this in Jackson too. Its not hard to get your license to be able to do this, its the Insurance that cost a bunch of money, you know incase you shoot something thats not a deer.
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Old October 9th, 2008, 03:18 PM   #42
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doesn't DNR require a shotgun to hunt deer for for the southern half of the LP?
Maybe they do. I don't think you would want snipers trained on rifles to be running around with less-accurate shotguns. Such a restriction would make the effort to solve a problem less effective.

I guess I have no idea what your position is anymore, since the things you are bringing up don't seem to align very well. Seems like its all about not letting some people get the job done.
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Old October 9th, 2008, 03:24 PM   #43
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Maybe they do. I don't think you would want snipers trained on rifles to be running around with less-accurate shotguns. Such a restriction would make the effort to solve a problem less effective.

I guess I have no idea what your position is anymore, since the things you are bringing up don't seem to align very well. Seems like its all about not letting some people get the job done.
wtf do you mean less accurate? explain to me how a shotgun is less accurate. do you know why they have the lower half of the state shotgun only? because buckshot pellets don't travel very far before they hit the dirt. inside of 50 yards a 12 gauge is more deadly than any other firearm avalable, and just as accurate as a rifle. using shotguns with buckshot to kill deer in a urban environment would be more ideal than the 308 or 300 win mag most police snipers use.
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Old October 9th, 2008, 03:49 PM   #44
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wtf do you mean less accurate? explain to me how a shotgun is less accurate. do you know why they have the lower half of the state shotgun only? because buckshot pellets don't travel very far before they hit the dirt. inside of 50 yards a 12 gauge is more deadly than any other firearm avalable, and just as accurate as a rifle. using shotguns with buckshot to kill deer in a urban environment would be more ideal than the 308 or 300 win mag most police snipers use.
You just explained how they are less accurate yourself. The pellets don't travel far before they drop, the farther they travel, the more they spread out, and you need to be pretty close. You're not jumping into a man-eating deer melee within the confines of a football field.

For safety, sure. In that case, police snipers wouldn't really be what is needed. Experienced shotgun hunters would and those two people aren't necessarily the same thing. Basic marksmanship principles can still carry over from one weapon to the next, but they are disctinctly different weapons. The usage we're talking about isn't exactly as relevant to the training that most law enforcement receives on a shotgun as it is to the training that a sniper receives on a rifle.

When hunting anything, stand-off is your greatest advantage to avoiding detection and shotguns aren't the weapon of choice when that's what you want. I think that's probably one of the points of contention between the OCS and the DNR.
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Old October 9th, 2008, 04:01 PM   #45
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You just explained how they are less accurate yourself. The pellets don't travel far before they drop, the farther they travel, the more they spread out, and you need to be pretty close. You're not jumping into a man-eating deer melee within the confines of a football field.

For safety, sure. In that case, police snipers wouldn't really be what is needed. Experienced shotgun hunters would and those two people aren't necessarily the same thing. Basic marksmanship principles can still carry over from one weapon to the next, but they are disctinctly different weapons. The usage we're talking about isn't exactly as relevant to the training that most law enforcement receives on a shotgun as it is to the training that a sniper receives on a rifle.

When hunting anything, stand-off is your greatest advantage to avoiding detection and shotguns aren't the weapon of choice when that's what you want. I think that's probably one of the points of contention between the OCS and the DNR.
ok pp, you don't get what i am saying. accuracy and the pattern that buckshot gives at ranges under 50 yards are 2 different things. at 50 yards the pattern is large, but most deer are shot under 50 yards. have you ever owned/shot a precision tactical rifle? they are much harder to operate/shoot/hunt with than a shotgun. another point is that the deer they want to kill are so used to humans that they are not afraid of their scent. hunting the deer in Oakland county is nothing like hunting a wiley old swamp buck in traverse county. if you think a high power rifle is the safer weapon to use in a urban area, then you are one mixed up jew.
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Old October 9th, 2008, 04:05 PM   #46
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please educate yourself.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot20_3.htm
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Old October 9th, 2008, 04:15 PM   #47
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I guess I have no idea what your position is anymore, since the things you are bringing up don't seem to align very well. Seems like its all about not letting some people get the job done.

My position is to allow them to be hunted. By citizens. By locals. You can come up with risk scenarios all day long, and in the end the hunter is the one responsible.

Make it a bowhunt. Hunters like to hunt, and would like to hunt locally.
Maybe I'm wrong, just my opinion.
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Old October 9th, 2008, 04:15 PM   #48
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have you ever owned/shot a precision tactical rifle? they are much harder to operate/shoot/hunt with than a shotgun.
Uh, yeah. I've been trained to knock down people at 300 meters with a very non-precise, mass-produced FM or Colt 5.56 piece of crap. I know I'm not going to get that 1-shot, 1-kill job done with a shotgun, even at 1/2 or 1/3 of that distance.

I seriously doubt that they are going to try and have these guys roaming around to try and engage at that close of a range. Its an extermation of a nuisance-type job that would be done as efficiently as possible. They're probably going to position themselves in a stationary manner in a safe lane based on reported sightings in an area, bait them, and just pick off a quota per shift based on the numbers reported. I don't have experience with silencers, but if there's hardware out there that is still accurate at a decent range, hand them out based on practicality and minimum impact on the community.

You guys are making it out to be way too "sporting" when its just a job that needs to get done.

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Old October 9th, 2008, 04:23 PM   #49
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You guys are making it out to be way too "sporting" when its just a job that needs to get done.
well, now that you put it that way
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Old October 9th, 2008, 04:27 PM   #50
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Uh, yeah. I've been trained to knock down people at 300 meters with a very non-precision, mass-produced FM or Colt 5.56 piece of crap. I know I'm not going to get that 1-shot, 1-kill job done with a shotgun, even at 1/2 or 1/3 of that distance.

I seriously doubt that they are going to try and have these guys roaming around to try an engage at that range. Its an extermation of a nuisance-type job that would be done as efficiently as possible. They're probably going to position themselves in a stationary manner in a safe lane based on reported sightings in an area, bait them, and just pick off a quota per shift based on the numbers reported. I don't have experience with silencers, but if there's hardware out there that is still accurate at a decent range, hand them out based on practicality and minimum impact on the community.
you are still not listening pp, so i am going to quit trying to get you to understand. they get to use bait? son of a bitch!! the use of a silencer does not affect accuracy, it does affect the point of impact. a 308 Winchester subsonic round fired from a silenced rifle will have less range and killing power at range. this would actually make it a better choice for the urban environment than the full power loads. still not a better choice than a shotgun.
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Old October 9th, 2008, 04:51 PM   #51
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if anyone is hungry there is a dead doe laying on the side of tienken just east of rochester road
looked really fresh at 330
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Old October 9th, 2008, 10:15 PM   #52
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Welllllll, since I eat lunch in Rochester Hills often, and drive through when going to lunch, and visit people that live there, and work in a city right next door, I would have to say those that want to use regular hunters to do this job, just have no idea what type of environment they are dealing with.

The more control this "hunt" has, the better it will be received by all affected.

p.s. The kind of money and political power that areas populace represents is not going to sit still for Joe Yahoo and his Pick-em-up truck parking on their street and roaming through their backyards. Sorry, but that is the simple truth of the matter.
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Old October 9th, 2008, 10:21 PM   #53
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Welllllll, since I eat lunch in Rochester Hills often, and drive through when going to lunch, and visit people that live there, and work in a city right next door, I would have to say those that want to use regular hunters to do this job, just have no idea what type of environment they are dealing with.

The more control this "hunt" has, the better it will be received by all affected.

p.s. The kind of money and political power that areas populace represents is not going to sit still for Joe Yahoo and his Pick-em-up truck parking on their street and roaming through their backyards. Sorry, but that is the simple truth of the matter.
haha, your a bigot. not all hunters are yahoo's who drive trucks. all of the dutch smoke pot, fornicate sheep, wear clogs, live in windmills, grow tulips and have sore fingers from sticking them in dykes.
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Old October 9th, 2008, 10:42 PM   #54
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ok pp, you don't get what i am saying. accuracy and the pattern that buckshot gives at ranges under 50 yards are 2 different things. at 50 yards the pattern is large, but most deer are shot under 50 yards. have you ever owned/shot a precision tactical rifle? they are much harder to operate/shoot/hunt with than a shotgun. another point is that the deer they want to kill are so used to humans that they are not afraid of their scent. hunting the deer in Oakland county is nothing like hunting a wiley old swamp buck in traverse county. if you think a high power rifle is the safer weapon to use in a urban area, then you are one mixed up jew.

buckshot... who the hell uses buckshot? 99% of people that use a shotgun have a rifled barrel and most 12 guages are capable of shots at up to 200 yards.
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Old October 9th, 2008, 10:49 PM   #55
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buckshot... who the hell uses buckshot? 99% of people that use a shotgun have a rifled barrel and most 12 guages are capable of shots at up to 200 yards.
go make a post with a fat girl in it..

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Old October 9th, 2008, 10:50 PM   #56
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go make a post with a fag girl in it..
huh?
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Old October 9th, 2008, 10:51 PM   #57
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Wtf?
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Old October 9th, 2008, 10:53 PM   #58
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wat? Its bogus you can use slugs in the shotgun zone. A 30-30 or a 44 mag have almost the same ballistics as a rifled slug. i hunt with a shotgun, but only in the super dense swamp, and i use buckshot.

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Old October 9th, 2008, 10:57 PM   #59
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I think it's funny that a few people want it opened up to bow hunters...
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Old October 9th, 2008, 11:09 PM   #60
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yes i want it opened up to bow hunting how is any different than joe blow target shooting in his back yard i know several people in rochester hills that do this. safely
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