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View Poll Results: Who are you voting for?
Mccain 212 76.26%
Obama 66 23.74%
Voters: 278. You may not vote on this poll

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Old October 4th, 2008, 12:23 PM   #81
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As a U.S. Senator, name two (2) pieces of legislation that Obama authored that has passed into law?
Come on Obama supporters, all that good he's done, just two.
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Old October 4th, 2008, 12:51 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by 3-foot View Post
Typically, college women vote democratic until they get married, get a job and acquire assets. After they feel secure in the future then they start to vote Republican. It happens all the time.

The theory is that women by nature need to have a feeling of security. The democratic party gives them that feeling of security by promising to take care of them, and if they don't have much to fall back on, then that seems pretty good, it fills the security need. After they have a good job, some savings and a partner to share in the burden, then security comes from within and they don't need the to give that feeling anymore and start to vote for the Republicans.

It doesn't help that liberal college professors are pounding the party montra in class either.

I don't know Barb but if she is as intelligent as you say she will grow out of the Democratic party within 10 years of graduation. Unless she marries the campus hippie, then all bets are off.

hmm. interesting theory. but it depicts me as someone who's insecure right now and need to feel 'safe'. I am attending college as very confident that wherever I'll end up, I'll be able to support myself. without the help of a man. I choose to vote Dem this year b/c of the issues and the people running. As for my profs promoting the mantra... I'm in all medical classes. Politics don't enter, except Stem Cell research. Which I have my own views on.

If i were to 'follow the crowd' why would i be stating otherwise against a predominantly Republican board? I have my own views and beliefs about certain topics that will probably always lean me a little more dem. But, overall, it's the person who's running who is the deciding factor. If it was Hilary vs McCain... I'd probably be leaning to vote for McCain... cuz she's crazy. dammit

I think it's also a little narrow minded of you to say that If i'm smart, I'll change my views. If everyone changed their views to your own, there'd be no political forum to stir the pot

Last edited by Barb; October 4th, 2008 at 12:56 PM.
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Old October 4th, 2008, 12:58 PM   #83
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If you like what Granholm has done for Michigan, you'll love what Obama does for America.

My issues are few:

Gun control: Obama has solid record of banning firearms and support an all out ban on semi-auto firearms. Biden Co-authored AWB.

Foreign policy: Obama wants to help the world, at the cost of americans. Thinks he can negotiate with terrorists.

Economy: Obama thinks progress is building Toyotas in Kentucky with mexican parts. I want to see chevys in Michigan with American parts from Indiana, sold abroad.

Energy: I love it when Palin say "drill" or "tapped". Earth first, we can log, mine and drill the other planets later.

Military: He's lost, clueless. A strong military will be the cornerstone of the future of this country.

Government: I was a fed for 30 years. Government needs spending reform. As bad as you might thing Waste/Fraud/Abuse is by our government, it's worse.

Well that is my short list, and Obama doesn't fit anywhere.

He is very Right. MCcain is the way to on this one.
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Old October 4th, 2008, 01:22 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Barb View Post
I'm in all medical classes.
What do you think will happen to medical profession salaries under socialized medicine?

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As a U.S. Senator, name two (2) pieces of legislation that Obama authored that has passed into law?
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Old October 4th, 2008, 01:40 PM   #85
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What do you think will happen to medical profession salaries under socialized medicine?
If Oppy stays true to his word they should be redistributed.
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Old October 4th, 2008, 01:43 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by Barb View Post
hmm. interesting theory. but it depicts me as someone who's insecure right now and need to feel 'safe'. I am attending college as very confident that wherever I'll end up, I'll be able to support myself. without the help of a man. I choose to vote Dem this year b/c of the issues and the people running. As for my profs promoting the mantra... I'm in all medical classes. Politics don't enter, except Stem Cell research. Which I have my own views on.

If i were to 'follow the crowd' why would i be stating otherwise against a predominantly Republican board? I have my own views and beliefs about certain topics that will probably always lean me a little more dem. But, overall, it's the person who's running who is the deciding factor. If it was Hilary vs McCain... I'd probably be leaning to vote for McCain... cuz she's crazy. dammit

I think it's also a little narrow minded of you to say that If i'm smart, I'll change my views. If everyone changed their views to your own, there'd be no political forum to stir the pot
What issues, and where do you stand on these issues, and where does Oppy stand on these issues???????


Show me some substance.
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Old October 4th, 2008, 09:47 PM   #87
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The substance Obama is full of should scare away any self thinking morally competent American that has any thread of Patriotism running thru their viens.

I would like to add This . My statment above is not about Democrat or republican .

Last edited by Shakr; October 5th, 2008 at 07:38 AM.
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Old October 5th, 2008, 09:40 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by Barb View Post
hmm. interesting theory. but it depicts me as someone who's insecure right now and need to feel 'safe'. I am attending college as very confident that wherever I'll end up, I'll be able to support myself. without the help of a man. I choose to vote Dem this year b/c of the issues and the people running. As for my profs promoting the mantra... I'm in all medical classes. Politics don't enter, except Stem Cell research. Which I have my own views on.
I hope you don't think I was picking on you. I was actually trying to defend your position, but anyway let me explain some more...

My wife was like you when I met her. She was near graduation and her mother drilled into her that she should be independent and never need the support of a man. She was very liberal minded too. I supported her ability to self support and I still do. However now that we've been married for several years she has a security that she never had before. Partly because she has a good job that pays her way and partly because she has a spouse that backs her in every way. The result is that she has become conservative in thought, not 100% yet but she's come a long way in that direction. Don't tell her mom. I've become more conservative as I have become more successful too.

You had gen-ed classes before you attended Med school right? Did you not have any liberal professors then? If you didn't I'd love to know where you went to school. Do you think their liberal agenda influenced your positions? How about high school, I know that your teachers there were spouting the liberal agenda, maybe you didn't notice.

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If i were to 'follow the crowd' why would i be stating otherwise against a predominantly Republican board? I have my own views and beliefs about certain topics that will probably always lean me a little more dem. But, overall, it's the person who's running who is the deciding factor. If it was Hilary vs McCain... I'd probably be leaning to vote for McCain... cuz she's crazy. dammit

I think it's also a little narrow minded of you to say that If i'm smart, I'll change my views. If everyone changed their views to your own, there'd be no political forum to stir the pot
I never called you a crowd follower, that was Stevo.

If you think Hillary is crazy you should do some more research on Sen. Obama, he is much more scary than Sen. Clinton. Maybe you like the idea of socialism, I don't know. If you don't then I encourage you to compare Sen. Obama's stand on the issues from his own web site to the Socialist Party's stand on their web site. You will find them to be nearly identical. He is a socialist who wants more control over your life and more money out of your pocket. That might not matter to you today, but when you are successful and have a large sum of money in the bank, I'm guessing that you won't want to be handing it over to the government.

I am not narrow minded, I am right. Smart people tend to be successful, successful people tend to want to keep what they earn. Conservativism is the best form of government for those who want to keep what they earn. So successful people gravitate to conservatism. Unfortunately, only time will show you that it's true. Talk to me in ten years, if I am wrong, I'll eat crow.

I don't want everyone to change their views to my own. I simply said that if you are smart, you will be successful, and if you are successful you will share in the conservative view eventually. In the vast majority of cases that is true.
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Old October 5th, 2008, 09:43 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by joe_jeep View Post
you have a poll of how people are voting but there is only 2 choices on it.
threre are other people running.
That is all I want to know, if you are not voting for either than just don't vote.
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Old October 5th, 2008, 09:54 AM   #90
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Fixed!!
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Old October 5th, 2008, 10:48 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by clint357 View Post
I'm on the fence still. McCain seems like more of a liar though.
Look at their voting record and listen to what they r saying now. Obama says whatever he needs to say to get the sheep to vote for him. He will raise your taxes to pay for more goverment run programs, big gov means more spending, your tax dollars hard at work
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Old October 5th, 2008, 11:11 AM   #92
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Look at their voting record and listen to what they r saying now. Obama says whatever he needs to say to get the sheep to vote for him. He will raise your taxes to pay for more goverment run programs, big gov means more spending, your tax dollars hard at work
Your right there.
Calling McCain a liar? He says he'll do, what is consistent with what he has done.

Obama doesn't run on his record, because it controverts what he says he is going to do.
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Old October 5th, 2008, 11:15 AM   #93
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This site is actually quite helpful. Especially after a debate when they call each other liars every 5 min. I was looking for a site that would back-check what they were claiming and this is what I found.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me.../barack-obama/
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...s/john-mccain/
Check the facts Obama.senate.gov or mccain.senate.gov voting records, the real ones not the ones that the media spins on us
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Old October 5th, 2008, 11:35 AM   #94
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If you believe that obama is for change then u need to visit youtube and search Obama Kids and Hitler Youth singing. Remember the change Hitler brought to this world. If Obama gets in we will be in for a big change.
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Old October 5th, 2008, 11:51 AM   #95
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YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.



Thomas Sowell: Obama is little more than the idol of crowds

By THOMAS SOWELL

"A human group transforms itself into a crowd when it suddenly responds to a suggestion rather than to reasoning, to an image rather than to an idea, to an affirmation rather than to proof, to the repetition of a phrase rather than to arguments, to prestige rather than to competence."

Jean-François Revel was not referring to the United States when he wrote those words, nor to his own France, but to human beings in general. He was certainly not referring to Barack Obama, whom he probably never heard of, since Revel died last year.

To find anything comparable to crowds' euphoric reactions to Obama, you would have to go back to old newsreels of German crowds in the 1930s, with their adulation of their fuehrer, Adolf Hitler. With hindsight, we can look back on those people with pity, knowing now how many of them would be led to their deaths by the man they idolized.

The exultation of the moment can exact a brutal price after that moment has passed. Nowhere is that truer than when it comes to picking the leader of a nation, which means entrusting that leader with the fate of millions today and of generations yet unborn.

A leader does not have to be evil to lead a country into a catastrophe. Inexperience and incompetence can create very similar results, perhaps even faster in a nuclear age, when even "a small country" -- as Senator Obama called Iran -- can wreak havoc anywhere in the world, when they are led by suicidal fanatics and supply nuclear weapons to terrorists who are likewise suicidal fanatics.

Barack Obama is truly a phenomenon of our time-- a presidential candidate who cannot cite a single serious accomplishment in his entire career, besides advancing his own career with rhetoric.

He has a rhetorical answer for everything. Those of us who talk about the threat of Iran are just engaging in "the politics of fear" according to Obama, something to distract us from "the real issues," such as raising taxes and handing out largesse with the proceeds.

Those who have studied the years leading up to World War II have been astonished by how many people and how many countries failed to see what Adolf Hitler was getting ready to do.

Even though Hitler telegraphed his punches, few people seemed to get the message. Books about that period have had such titles as "The Gathering Storm" and "Why England Slept."

Will future generations wonder why we slept? Why we could not see the gathering storm in Iran, where one of the world's leading oil producers is building nuclear facilities-- ostensibly to generate electricity, but whose obvious purpose is to produce nuclear bombs.

This is a country whose President has already threatened to wipe a neighboring country off the map. Does anyone need to draw pictures?

When terrorists get nuclear weapons, there will be no way to deter suicide bombers. We and our children will be permanently at the mercy of the merciless.

Yet what are we talking about? Taxing and spending policies, socking it to the oil companies and rescuing people who gambled on risky mortgages and lost.

Are we serious? Are we incapable of adult foresight and adult responsibility?

Barack Obama of course has his usual answer: talk. Rhetoric seems to be his answer to everything. Obama calls for "aggressive" diplomacy and "tough" negotiations with Iran.

These colorful adjectives may impress gullible voters but they are unlikely to impress fanatics who are willing to destroy themselves if they can destroy us in the process.

Just what is Senator Obama going to say to Iran that has not been said already? That we don't want them to develop nuclear weapons? That has already been said, every way that it can possibly be said. If talk was going to do the job, it would already have done it by now.

Go to the United Nations? What will they do, except issue warnings-- and when these are ignored, issue more warnings?

But what does Obama have besides talk-- and adoring crowds?

Thomas Sowell is the Rose and Milton Friedman fellow at the Hoover Institution at Stanford University.
Idols of crowds
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Old October 5th, 2008, 01:22 PM   #96
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I have not decided yet
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Old October 5th, 2008, 01:56 PM   #97
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This poll is interesting seeing as how McCain has about written off winning Michigan. Odd.
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Old October 5th, 2008, 03:10 PM   #98
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Shows you what most of the people on this site are about.
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Old October 5th, 2008, 04:22 PM   #99
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YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.



Thomas Sowell: Obama is little more than the idol of crowds

By THOMAS SOWELL

"A human group transforms itself into a crowd when it suddenly responds to a suggestion rather than to reasoning, to an image rather than to an idea, to an affirmation rather than to proof, to the repetition of a phrase rather than to arguments, to prestige rather than to competence."

Jean-François Revel was not referring to the United States when he wrote those words, nor to his own France, but to human beings in general. He was certainly not referring to Barack Obama, whom he probably never heard of, since Revel died last year.

To find anything comparable to crowds' euphoric reactions to Obama, you would have to go back to old newsreels of German crowds in the 1930s, with their adulation of their fuehrer, Adolf Hitler. With hindsight, we can look back on those people with pity, knowing now how many of them would be led to their deaths by the man they idolized.

The exultation of the moment can exact a brutal price after that moment has passed. Nowhere is that truer than when it comes to picking the leader of a nation, which means entrusting that leader with the fate of millions today and of generations yet unborn.

A leader does not have to be evil to lead a country into a catastrophe. Inexperience and incompetence can create very similar results, perhaps even faster in a nuclear age, when even "a small country" -- as Senator Obama called Iran -- can wreak havoc anywhere in the world, when they are led by suicidal fanatics and supply nuclear weapons to terrorists who are likewise suicidal fanatics.

Barack Obama is truly a phenomenon of our time-- a presidential candidate who cannot cite a single serious accomplishment in his entire career, besides advancing his own career with rhetoric.

He has a rhetorical answer for everything. Those of us who talk about the threat of Iran are just engaging in "the politics of fear" according to Obama, something to distract us from "the real issues," such as raising taxes and handing out largesse with the proceeds.

Those who have studied the years leading up to World War II have been astonished by how many people and how many countries failed to see what Adolf Hitler was getting ready to do.

Even though Hitler telegraphed his punches, few people seemed to get the message. Books about that period have had such titles as "The Gathering Storm" and "Why England Slept."

Will future generations wonder why we slept? Why we could not see the gathering storm in Iran, where one of the world's leading oil producers is building nuclear facilities-- ostensibly to generate electricity, but whose obvious purpose is to produce nuclear bombs.

This is a country whose President has already threatened to wipe a neighboring country off the map. Does anyone need to draw pictures?

When terrorists get nuclear weapons, there will be no way to deter suicide bombers. We and our children will be permanently at the mercy of the merciless.

Yet what are we talking about? Taxing and spending policies, socking it to the oil companies and rescuing people who gambled on risky mortgages and lost.

Are we serious? Are we incapable of adult foresight and adult responsibility?

Barack Obama of course has his usual answer: talk. Rhetoric seems to be his answer to everything. Obama calls for "aggressive" diplomacy and "tough" negotiations with Iran.

These colorful adjectives may impress gullible voters but they are unlikely to impress fanatics who are willing to destroy themselves if they can destroy us in the process.

Just what is Senator Obama going to say to Iran that has not been said already? That we don't want them to develop nuclear weapons? That has already been said, every way that it can possibly be said. If talk was going to do the job, it would already have done it by now.

Go to the United Nations? What will they do, except issue warnings-- and when these are ignored, issue more warnings?

But what does Obama have besides talk-- and adoring crowds?

Thomas Sowell is the Rose and Milton Friedman fellow at the Hoover Institution at Stanford University.
Idols of crowds
very well put , we need more people like you that look at the facts and not just follow a eloquent and charismatic speaker who says what the followers want to hear and not the truth. We need to be aware of one's actions as opposed to what they say. Actions speak louder than words
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Old October 5th, 2008, 10:15 PM   #100
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Check the facts Obama.senate.gov or mccain.senate.gov voting records, the real ones not the ones that the media spins on us
John McCain has missed 420 votes (64.1%) during the current Congress.
John McCain has voted with a majority of his Republican colleagues 88.1% of the time during the current Congress

Barack Obama has missed 303 votes (46.3%) during the current Congress
Barack Obama has voted with a majority of his Democratic colleagues 96.0% of the time during the current Congress

What are you saying? Just that Obama sides with his side more?
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