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Old October 2nd, 2008, 08:25 AM   #21
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In one article there's a device you attach to your house CNG system. You plug your car in, and it'll slowly fill your car while it sits. Probably close if not the same thing.
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Old October 2nd, 2008, 08:26 AM   #22
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Domestics have always been focused on trucks and SUVs, because that's what sold and what people wanted. How dare a business build what people want to buy!

The gas situation really turned the market upside down on what consumers wanted to buy. The domestics had smaller and more fuel efficient cars in the works, but they were still a little behind. Now they have to do a complete 180 to meet he market.

There's a 5-6 year time frame from drawing board to salesfloor when it comes to a vehicle. It's not an overnight thing.

I also don't think you realize how much the domestics going out of business would affect this country.
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Old October 2nd, 2008, 08:54 AM   #23
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Fuel economy takes low weight and low power - it doesn't help that NHTSA has every consumer demanding 5 star crash safety (a reasonable need), but not educating those consumers that there is a tradeoff in fuel economy because of the added mass of the the safety structures and components. It also doesn't help that everybody seems to want a "base" car that goes 0-60 in 8 seconds or under.

Excellent examples of this - the geo metro. Tiny car, no frills, 3 cylinder engine that could get near 50 mpg. The Ford Festiva - same thing but a bit heavier and larger engine that could get 45 mpg. The VW Lupo (europe only) - a TEENY car with a teeny diesel engine that broke the 3L/100Km barrier (over 70 mpg).
Exactly. Why do we have to have absolute idiot proof cars? Why can't we, if we chose to do so, drive a NEW car that isn't quite as safe in the case of an accident? Whoever was the first to get the crash safety stick up their butt and shove down our throats that safety is MOST important and that is what WE want, did a good job making cars more expensive than they need to be.

The American public is generally stupid. If an automaker focuses their marketing on a certain attribute such as safety, the media will soon jump in and make a big deal about safety, and then the others will follow shortly not to be one upped. Result, we all think we NEED all of that safety crap. To a point, they convince us to think that is what we need. The consumer is not to be one upped either, so when their dumb neighbor jumps on the latest media hype, they have to follow suit.
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Old October 2nd, 2008, 09:08 AM   #24
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Honda offers (or is about to offer) a CNG car. Also has a fill station you can install in your garage to fill your car.
At a $5500 price tag for the fill station....
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Old October 2nd, 2008, 09:10 AM   #25
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At a $5500 price tag for the fill station....
but it will pay for itself in 15 years
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Old October 2nd, 2008, 09:25 AM   #26
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Domestics have always been focused on trucks and SUVs, because that's what sold and what people wanted. How dare a business build what people want to buy!

The gas situation really turned the market upside down on what consumers wanted to buy. The domestics had smaller and more fuel efficient cars in the works, but they were still a little behind. Now they have to do a complete 180 to meet he market.

There's a 5-6 year time frame from drawing board to salesfloor when it comes to a vehicle. It's not an overnight thing.

I also don't think you realize how much the domestics going out of business would affect this country.
Nail on the head...
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Old October 2nd, 2008, 09:38 AM   #27
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Domestics have always been focused on trucks and SUVs, because that's what sold and what people wanted. How dare a business build what people want to buy! Nope, there was a time that domestics were focused on fuel economy in the past, actually it wasn't until the SUV boom that they just about completely ignored cars. Fuel Costs have always affected car sales, it was poor business to stop attempting them just because they couldn't build a reasonable small car

The gas situation really turned the market upside down on what consumers wanted to buy. The domestics had smaller and more fuel efficient cars in the works, but they were still a little behind. Now they have to do a complete 180 to meet he market.Umm yeah, but i'd have to bet what they had in the works weren't very good, and they had to start all over again. Poor Product planning.

There's a 5-6 year time frame from drawing board to salesfloor when it comes to a vehicle. It's not an overnight thing. Yeah, so why is it taking so long, fuel prices have been rising steadily since 2002, they should be hitting the market now if they actually planned out their models correctly. not in 2011. Because remember they are "rushing" these models to market, which means they started them in the last year.

I also don't think you realize how much the domestics going out of business would affect this country.It's going to happen, just a matter of when and whose first
Sorry i had to.


But even if they start making cars people want to buy, they still won't be good. THey need to drastically downsize, all car companies. There simply isn't as much demand for cars as there is the capacity to build them.

Last edited by scottie; October 2nd, 2008 at 09:42 AM.
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Old October 2nd, 2008, 10:05 AM   #28
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Sorry i had to.


But even if they start making cars people want to buy, they still won't be good. THey need to drastically downsize, all car companies. There simply isn't as much demand for cars as there is the capacity to build them.
They started making small cars when fuel crisis hit because people wanted them, and then people went back to buying trucks and SUVs.

Poor product planning? They were improving models that people bought and wanted, which is what they were making money on. Makes sense to me.

Fuel prices were steadily increasing, you're correct, but people did not care. Maybe the market shifted a small bit, but people still gobbled up trucks and SUVs. The domestics started focusing a little more on small vehicles, but they didn't make much money on them. Absolutely NO ONE could have predicted the large jump that happened in the last 1-2 years. Granted they would increase, but no one could have predicted such a large jump.

On another note, I love how you enjoy supporting this country's economy.....
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Old October 2nd, 2008, 10:07 AM   #29
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not many people are aware that the cobalt is the first car in its class by GM to actually make a profit. its predecessors were produced at a loss solely so they could keep selling SUV's and trucks and keep their CAFE standards where they needed to be.
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Old October 2nd, 2008, 10:13 AM   #30
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not many people are aware that the cobalt is the first car in its class by GM to actually make a profit. its predecessors were produced at a loss solely so they could keep selling SUV's and trucks and keep their CAFE standards where they needed to be.
Has it made enough money cover up for what they loss on the ION? And that just goes to show how little the executives know, as they've said several times that they can't make a profit on small cars.
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Old October 2nd, 2008, 10:14 AM   #31
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Sorry i had to.


But even if they start making cars people want to buy, they still won't be good. THey need to drastically downsize, all car companies. There simply isn't as much demand for cars as there is the capacity to build them.
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not many people are aware that the cobalt is the first car in its class by GM to actually make a profit. its predecessors were produced at a loss solely so they could keep selling SUV's and trucks and keep their CAFE standards where they needed to be.
According to scottie, if you were a smart business owner, you would be able to read the future 6 years out and start cranking out vehicles that you won't make any money on at the time, but might 6 years down the road.

Stupid businesses....
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Old October 2nd, 2008, 10:17 AM   #32
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here is a radical idea.

lets not spend the money on safety features and luxurious distractions in the cabin for better educating our drivers. all the safety shit is a direct result of bad drivers.
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Old October 2nd, 2008, 10:18 AM   #33
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On another note, I love how you enjoy supporting this country's economy.....
I support this countries economy a lot more than you probably think. There is no sense in sugar coating shit just to make it seem less shitty.
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Old October 2nd, 2008, 10:19 AM   #34
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I support this countries economy a lot more than you probably think. There is no sense in sugar coating shit just to make it seem less shitty.
How, taking out government loans to stay in college for 6 years when you should be done by now? Oh, that helps.
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Old October 2nd, 2008, 10:20 AM   #35
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According to scottie, if you were a smart business owner, you would be able to read the future 6 years out and start cranking out vehicles that you won't make any money on at the time, but might 6 years down the road.

Stupid businesses....

OMG, how long did you say it takes to get a car from drawing board to show room, you have to predict the future.
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Old October 2nd, 2008, 10:22 AM   #36
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How, taking out government loans to stay in college for 6 years when you should be done by now? Oh, that helps.

Think of all the jobs i've help pay for in the Financial aid department.
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Old October 2nd, 2008, 10:23 AM   #37
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OMG, how long did you say it takes to get a car from drawing board to show room, you have to predict the future.
Yea, I'll pull out my crystal ball too and win the fucking lottery.

I'm sure all predicted a steady increase in gasoline prices, not a 100% to 200% increase. Like I said, more focus was being put on small cars but not enough to warranty the sudden and extreme shift in the market demand from the consumer.

Are you that fucking blind?
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Old October 2nd, 2008, 10:24 AM   #38
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Think of all the jobs i've help pay for in the Financial aid department.
Yep, taking their money that you'll pay back in 20 years helps. Right on.
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Old October 2nd, 2008, 10:30 AM   #39
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Yea, I'll pull out my crystal ball too and win the fucking lottery.

I'm sure all predicted a steady increase in gasoline prices, not a 100% to 200% increase. Like I said, more focus was being put on small cars but not enough to warranty the sudden and extreme shift in the market demand from the consumer.

Are you that fucking blind?


No, they would be in bad shape with or without the right product right now. Nobody would have predicted the rise in fuel prices combined with this shitty economy we have right now. Their product just made them the first one out the door, which as odd as it may sound, may actually help them in the long term after they chapter 11 and re-emerge as a leaner company.
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Old October 2nd, 2008, 10:39 AM   #40
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Fuck it. 50k for a diesel work truck and you still need money from the government??? how long will we just keep throwing money at failing industries? what is it going to take for these idiots to change business tactics?
http://www.usnews.com/blogs/flowchar...-chrysler.html
They won't change until the Government quits bailing them all out to include any and all business bail-outs... Natural selection comes to mind in a business setting, the solvent profitable businesses will survive and the failing mismanaged ones will fail... Survival of the fittest!!!!!
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