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Old October 1st, 2008, 08:59 PM   #21
Toolmakerprevo
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The "Two cow Explanation" of what makes...

A socialist:
You have 2 cows. The Government takes one and gives it to your neighbor.

A Republican:
You have 2 cows your Neighbor has None. "So What!"

A Democrat:
You have 2 cows. Your Neighbor has none. You feel guilty for being successful. You vote people into office who tax your cows, forcing you to sell 1 to raise money to pay the tax. The people you voted for then take the tax money and buy a cow and give it to your neighbor. You Feel righteous.

A Communist:
You have 2 cows the government seizes both and provides you the with Milk.

A Facist:
You have 2 cows, The government seizes both and sells you the milk. You join the underground and start a campaign of sabotage.

Democracy, American style:
You have 2 cows. The government taxes you to the point you have to sell both to support a man in a foreign country who has only 1 cow, which was a gift from your government.

Capitalism American style:
You have 2 cows. You sell one, buy a bull, and build a herd of cows.

Bureaucracy American Style:
You have 2 cows. The government takes them both, shoots one, milks the other, pays you for the milk, then pours the milk down the drain.

An American Corporation:
You have 2 cows. You sell one,and force the other to produce the milk of 4 cows. You are surprised when the cow drops dead.
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Old October 1st, 2008, 09:05 PM   #22
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I have never claimed to belong to either party but after reading motorcitymans and PeteC's posts over the last few weeks I now believe I am 100% republican or at least I can say I am NOT a Democrat !!

Motorcityman and PeteC John Mccain thanks you for your service.
Shakr, you have misread my disdain for the "current" Republican Party. I hated Carter and Clinton, loved Reagan, didnt like the first Bush too much, but I have never been more disappointed than in our current President. He has been the most hypocritical Republican ever. Those are great Republican principles taken from the GOP website, but he & Cheney seem to find a way to break every one of them. He will go in the books as the worst President to date. I have never ever voted for a Democrat in a State or National election. I just wish the Republicans would get back to their roots and balance budgets, cut taxes, and cut spending, in favor of a smaller government.

By the way, I have never (unless sarcastically) said I was in favor of redistribution of wealth. It's just those with their heads in the sand that interpret it that way.

Also, John McCain has had a reputation of one of the most liberal Republicans (which can be a good thing to accomplish business with the ) He is swinging more conservative for the election.
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Old October 1st, 2008, 10:19 PM   #23
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i know. bush is also the cause of male pattern baldness too. blame who you want. if you are referring to the bailout it is the who are whining about it.

obama is open about big government and rejects free market.
he is a pure socailist.
vote for who you want. it will make it easier for me to know who to draw a bead on when the shit hits the fan

obama and his dummy brigade of wants to take my money and other hard workers money and give it to his fellow black ghetto slugs who don't want to work.
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Old October 2nd, 2008, 09:10 AM   #24
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The "Two cow Explanation" of what makes...
hahahaaha x33454
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Old October 2nd, 2008, 09:32 AM   #25
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Shakr, you have misread my disdain for the "current" Republican Party. I hated Carter and Clinton, loved Reagan, didnt like the first Bush too much, but I have never been more disappointed than in our current President. He has been the most hypocritical Republican ever. Those are great Republican principles taken from the GOP website, but he & Cheney seem to find a way to break every one of them. He will go in the books as the worst President to date. I have never ever voted for a Democrat in a State or National election. I just wish the Republicans would get back to their roots and balance budgets, cut taxes, and cut spending, in favor of a smaller government.

By the way, I have never (unless sarcastically) said I was in favor of redistribution of wealth. It's just those with their heads in the sand that interpret it that way.

Also, John McCain has had a reputation of one of the most liberal Republicans (which can be a good thing to accomplish business with the ) He is swinging more conservative for the election.

The only thing that I would like to point out is I believe the biggest failure of GW is sitting back and letting the Dem Congress push things through without speaking out against it. The liberal media allows a great deal of fingers to be pointed at GW and he is just dumb enough to take it without speaking out against it.

I do agree with the comments lately by many that we have a Democratic and Socialist election. There is no true republican running. While I wish I could say having a true conservative with their hat in would make a difference I am now a firm believer that nothing will make a difference until someone gets rid of the life long politicians. The corruption and greed runs so deep within Washington that I don't know who you can trust nor where to start with the cleansing. I still have a sour taste in my mouth thinking about how much of a vested interest in the bailout's approval the person leading the ship has(Paulson).

I think I know exactly what put us here. Year after year we voted for the lesser of two evils.
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Old October 2nd, 2008, 09:47 AM   #26
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Greasemonkey I was looking for that story, it is in my opinion the single best explanation of the democrat way. I even had my daughter read this back a few years ago when her class was pushing the democrat way on her and her friends , she even had a teacher tell her to not use a certain cell phone service because it gave money to the republican party !!!!.

I have never claimed to belong to either party but after reading motorcitymans and PeteC's posts over the last few weeks I now believe I am 100% republican or at least I can say I am NOT a Democrat !!

Motorcityman and PeteC John Mccain thanks you for your service.

Happy to do my part

Actually, believe it or not, I am essentially a moderate. Some of my beliefs line up with Democrats/left and some line up with Republicans/right. I do not support one side over the other simply because of party. To me that is not logical.

A lot of what I have posted recently has been in an attempt to shed some light on actual facts. It seems that so many, on both sides, accept the party spin as gospel and run with it.

For example, the portrayal of Obama as a Muslim, terrorist who will take all your guns. If you bother to look a little you will find a different story.

If I see something about a Republican candidate that is an out and out lie, and no one else has dealt with it, I would bring those facts to light as well, and have in the past.

I have respect for any and all people who serve this country in government service (until they do something to lose that respect). This is regardless of party. How many of you can say the same thing? Not many, from the insults I have seen here.

Argue the issues. Vote the issues.

Yes, personality has a bearing. But the truth is much more important.

p.s. Palin has still not said anything to impress me. She is still out of her league on the national and international stage. I am looking forward to the debate tonight.

p.s.s. Yes, it is true that I support the Democratic party candidates in this election year. Main reason? I think the last 2 presidential terms have not gone in a good direction for this country, and even if McCain wants a different direction, he still has the Republican party to deal with and will be pushed to follow their agenda.
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Old October 2nd, 2008, 09:57 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by PeteC View Post
Happy to do my part

Actually, believe it or not, I am essentially a moderate. Some of my beliefs line up with Democrats/left and some line up with Republicans/right. I do not support one side over the other simply because of party. To me that is not logical.

A lot of what I have posted recently has been in an attempt to shed some light on actual facts. It seems that so many, on both sides, accept the party spin as gospel and run with it.

For example, the portrayal of Obama as a Muslim, terrorist who will take all your guns. If you bother to look a little you will find a different story.

If I see something about a Republican candidate that is an out and out lie, and no one else has dealt with it, I would bring those facts to light as well, and have in the past.

I have respect for any and all people who serve this country in government service (until they do something to lose that respect). This is regardless of party. How many of you can say the same thing? Not many, from the insults I have seen here.

Argue the issues. Vote the issues.

Yes, personality has a bearing. But the truth is much more important.

p.s. Palin has still not said anything to impress me. She is still out of her league on the national and international stage. I am looking forward to the debate tonight.

p.s.s. Yes, it is true that I support the Democratic party candidates in this election year. Main reason? I think the last 2 presidential terms have not gone in a good direction for this country, and even if McCain wants a different direction, he still has the Republican party to deal with and will be pushed to follow their agenda.
I lean more right but I am considered moderate I guess because I'm not 100%. I disagree with Republicans on a few items like abortion and a few business things. I'd consider myself 75% Republican and 25% Democrat.
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Old October 2nd, 2008, 10:48 AM   #28
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I lean more right but I am considered moderate I guess because I'm not 100%. I disagree with Republicans on a few items like abortion and a few business things. I'd consider myself 75% Republican and 25% Democrat.
I guess because I'm not 100%. = x2 They are all full of $hit.
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Old October 2nd, 2008, 11:45 AM   #29
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTkqosRiyYo
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Old October 2nd, 2008, 12:44 PM   #30
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BUSH is redistributing OUR money like a socialist!
Do you really think that President Bush is responsible for this mess? I blame him for supporting the bailout but the cause of the bailout is another story. The bailout decision is up to congress BTW not the white house.

Here's a starting point for you ......


http://townhall.com/columnists/KenBl..._from_the_tree

Read up on Acorn and who was pushing Fannie/Freddie into making loans to unqualified people. The same loans that are the cause of all this mess. The answer is not Pres. Bush. Then look at who stands to gain the most if all this bailout business happens. It isn't Pres. Bush either.

I agree with you that Pres. Bush isn't the conservative he should have been but he is not to blame for this mess. Congress is to blame, it's congress that will be spending your money like a socialist government if the bail out happens, and it's congress that has the most to gain from the bailout. Not to mention Sen. Obama's possible benefit from this as well.

This is all very dirty and it makes me sick.
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Old October 2nd, 2008, 03:05 PM   #31
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Wow, the bias is getting so blatant. I hope that was in the context of a joke.
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Old October 2nd, 2008, 03:06 PM   #32
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Do you really think that President Bush is responsible for this mess?
hell granholm has said that bush policy is responsible for michigan's problems.

blame blame blame.
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Old October 2nd, 2008, 03:09 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3-foot View Post
Do you really think that President Bush is responsible for this mess? I blame him for supporting the bailout but the cause of the bailout is another story. The bailout decision is up to congress BTW not the white house.

Here's a starting point for you ......


http://townhall.com/columnists/KenBl..._from_the_tree

Read up on Acorn and who was pushing Fannie/Freddie into making loans to unqualified people. The same loans that are the cause of all this mess. The answer is not Pres. Bush. Then look at who stands to gain the most if all this bailout business happens. It isn't Pres. Bush either.

I agree with you that Pres. Bush isn't the conservative he should have been but he is not to blame for this mess. Congress is to blame, it's congress that will be spending your money like a socialist government if the bail out happens, and it's congress that has the most to gain from the bailout. Not to mention Sen. Obama's possible benefit from this as well.

This is all very dirty and it makes me sick.


There used to be a sign sitting on Trumans desk in that oval office. It said:


THE BUCK STOPS HERE


Ultimately, this buck stops on Bush's desk. He was at the helm. His department Secretaries were minding the store.



BTW, I agree there is plenty of blame to go around. Nobody is completely innocent here. Left, Right and White.
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Old October 2nd, 2008, 06:16 PM   #34
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Happy to do my part

For example, the portrayal of Obama as a Muslim, terrorist who will take all your guns. If you bother to look a little you will find a different story.
Well my friend, I challenge to show a single gun control legislation that Obama didn't support.

http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Bara...un_Control.htm
http://armedandfree.wordpress.com/20...ess-but-quick/

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Old October 2nd, 2008, 06:33 PM   #35
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Well my friend, I challenge to show a single gun control legislation that Obama didn't supportwhile he held a goverment position.

http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Bara...un_Control.htm
http://armedandfree.wordpress.com/20...ess-but-quick/
gotta be more carfull thes soicalist take every thing out of context
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Old October 2nd, 2008, 08:34 PM   #36
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Well my friend, I challenge to show a single gun control legislation that Obama didn't support.
Finding proof that something exists is easier than finding proof of something that does not. After reading what I have about his stance on gun control over the past few months, I actually agree with his general position. I believe that he supports the second amendment while still keeping some legal control. I have not seen any legitimate information that he wants to take all of our guns away.

How many gun control bills have come before the senate in the past 3+years? That would be the first thing to look into. Then you would have to look at voting record. I have not looked that far yet. But I will.

From my research on his state legislative record I found that he supported local authority over gun control, rather than state of federal. I will be happy to find what I can in the next few days.



Seems to be pretty complete on his stance, and I find very little wrong with it as a hunter, sport shooter and gun owner. Nothing he has said has threatened my gun ownership. Extrapolate if you want, I go by what I see.


This is his form response to gun control questions. Wonder if the poster thought he would get a personal response at this time? I like what Obama said in that letter. Hate me if you want, but that is how it is.

Looking into H.R. 6842 now (mentioned in that last link). It is a bill that would over turn District of Colombia city council emergency legislation for gun control after the Supreme court ruled existing laws unconstitutional. Obama would likely not support that bill as he has stated before that he supports gun laws at the local level. If he supports this bill, he would be flipping in my opinion.

Last edited by PeteC; October 2nd, 2008 at 08:42 PM.
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Old October 2nd, 2008, 08:48 PM   #37
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The Second Amendment is not about huning, sporting, or self defense.
If you don't own any semi-auto firearms, well, thats good for you.



2005
S.397
Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act
Vote against gun manufacturers twice.

SA1615
Cop Killer Bullet Ban
Vote against gun owners.

SA1620
S.397 Exemption for Children
Vote against gun manufacturers.

SA1623
Gross Negligence Amendment
Vote against gun manufacturers.

SA1626
Child Safety Lock Act of 2005
Vote against gun owners.

SA1644
Update to SA1620
Vote against gun manufacturers.
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Old October 2nd, 2008, 08:54 PM   #38
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Obama: ‘I’m Not Going to Take Your Guns Away’
Wall Street Journal
September 5, 2008

“Even if I want to take them away, I don’t have the votes in Congress,’’ he said. Barack Obama: Supporting the Rights and Traditions of Sportsmen
Protecting Gun Rights
Respect the Second Amendment: Millions of hunters own and use guns each year. Millions more participate in a variety of shooting sports such as sporting clays, skeet, target and trap shooting that may not necessarily involve hunting. As a former constitutional law professor, Barack Obama believes the Second Amendment creates an individual right and he greatly respects the constitutional rights of Americans to bear arms. He will protect the rights of hunters and other law-abiding Americans to purchase, own, transport and use guns for the purposes of hunting and target shooting. He also believes that the right is subject to reasonable and commonsense regulation.

Pittsburg Tribune-Review
Candidates\\\\\\\\\\' gun control positions may figure in Pa. vote
April 2, 2008

"I am not in favor of concealed weapons," Obama said. "I think that creates a potential atmosphere where more innocent people could (get shot during) altercations." The Sun Times News Group
The past haunts Obama?
December 7, 2007
"... The Obama campaign Tuesday disavowed a questionnaire he submitted to the Independent Voters of Illinois-Independent Precinct Organization in 1996 to support his state Senate candidacy.
"Obama never saw the '96 IVI-IPO state Senate questionnaire -- it was filled out by a staffer who unintentionally mischaracterized his views on a number of issues," said Obama spokesman Ben LaBolt. LaBolt said the staffer was then-Obama state Senate campaign manager Carol Harwell, who could not be reached Tuesday for comment."
If actions speak louder than words, votes scream. They must be considered the ultimate expression of a position. So how does Barack explain how his voting pattern matches his questionnaire responses?"

2003 Independent Voters of Illinois – Independent Precinct Organization Questionnaire. "35. Do you support legislation to ban the manufacture, sale and possession of
a. handguns?
While a complete ban on handguns is not politically practicable, I believe reasonable restrictions on the sale and possession of handguns are necessary to protect the public safety. In the Illinois Senate last year, I supported a package of bills to limit individual Illinoisans to purchasing one handgun a month; require all promoters and sellers at firearms shows to carry a state license; allow civil liability for death or injuries caused by handguns; and require FOID applicants to apply in person. I would support similar efforts at the federal level, including retaining the Brady Law.
b. assault weapons?
Yes.
c. ammunition for handguns and assault weapons?
I would support banning the sale of ammunition for assault weapons and limiting the sale of ammunition for handguns.
36. Do you support legislation
a. mandating background checks of purchasers of weapons at gun shows, through the internet and through print advertisements?
Yes.
b. increasing penalties for illegal resale of weapons?
Yes."
The Chicago Tribune
November 20, 2007
"Court To Hear Gun Case"

"But the campaign of Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama said that he "...believes that we can recognize and respect the rights of law-abiding gun owners and the right of local communities to enact common sense laws to combat violence and save lives. Obama believes the D.C. handgun law is constititional."
Senator Obama\\\\\\\\\\'s website
"...the passage of legal protection for the gun industry would mark an enormous setback for gun control advocates and for leaders of cities such as Chicago, who have filed suit against gun dealers and manufacturers."

The Black CoMMentator
"Thus, while I may favor common-sense gun control laws, that doesn’t keep me from reaching out to NRA members who are worried about their lack of health insurance."


The Chicago Tribune
"I believe we need to renew--not roll back--this common sense gun law," Obama said. - In reference to the 1994 AWB."

The Audacity of Hope, p.215 Oct 1, 2006
"I believe in keeping guns out of our inner cities, and that our leaders must say so in the face of the gun manfuacturer's lobby. "

1998 IL State Legislative National Political Awareness Test Jul 2, 1998"Principles that Obama supports on gun issues:
  • Ban the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons.
  • Increase state restrictions on the purchase and possession of firearms.
  • Require manufacturers to provide child-safety locks with firearms."
Chicago Defender, Dec. 13, 1999
h/t: Volokh
"Obama is proposing to make it a felony for a gun owner whose firearm was stolen from his residence which causes harm to another person if that weapon was not securely stored in that home.
He's proposing restricting gun purchases to one weapon a month and banning the sale of firearms at gun shows except for "antique" weapons. Obama is also proposing increasing the licensing fee to obtain a federal firearms license. ....

He's proposing that all federally licensed gun dealers sell firearms in a storefront and not from their homes while banning their business from being within five miles of a school or a park. He's also banning the sale of 'junk" handguns like the popular Saturday Night Specials."
1996 Independent Voters of Illinois – Independent Precinct Organization Questionnaire.
"35. Do you support state legislation ???
a. ban the manufacture, sale or possession of handguns?
Yes.
b. ban the manufacture, sale or possession of assault weapons?
Yes.
c. mandatory waiting periods with background checks for weapons?
Yes.
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Old October 2nd, 2008, 09:42 PM   #39
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Good job. I will read through later. I am sure I agree with some and disagree with other points. I am kinda moderate that way on guns, leaning one way then the other, depending on which part we are talking about.
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Old October 2nd, 2008, 10:06 PM   #40
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I have respect for people who vote and own hand guns.
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