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Old October 1st, 2008, 04:46 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by District Ranger View Post
You need to be careful about National Forest System Lands in the LP. Travel off the designated road or trail with any type of vehicle is not allowed. There is NO exception for licensed hunters retreiving legally tagged deer, bear or elk.


Les
its nice that you have an oppinion about this even though its counter to state law. and if you are a ranger you would know that.

Section 324.81133SectionOperation of ORV; prohibited acts.

(j) In an area on which public hunting is permitted during the regular November firearm deer season from 7 a.m. to 11 a.m. and from 2 p.m. to 5 p.m., except during an emergency or for law enforcement purposes, to go to and from a permanent residence or a hunting camp otherwise inaccessible by a conventional wheeled vehicle, to remove from public land a deer, elk, or bear that has been taken under a valid license; except for the conduct of necessary work functions involving land and timber survey, communication and transmission line patrol, and timber harvest operations; or except on property owned or under control of the operator or on which the operator is an invited guest. A hunter removing game pursuant to this subdivision may leave the designated trail or forest road only to retrieve the game and shall not exceed 5 miles per hour. A vehicle registered under the code is exempt from this subdivision while operating on a public highway or public or private road capable of sustaining automobile traffic. A person holding a valid permit to hunt from a standing vehicle issued pursuant to part 401, or a person with disabilities using an ORV to access public lands for purposes of hunting or fishing through use of a designated trail or forest road, is exempt from this subdivision.
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Old October 1st, 2008, 05:00 PM   #62
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I don't want you speaking for me in any way, shape or form. kthanks
END QUOTE*

No problem, since my above response had NOTHING to do with ANYTHING you stated in the first place.
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Old October 1st, 2008, 05:06 PM   #63
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Yetti,
324.81133 is a referance to operating on State Land area's I beleive.

National Forest lands have some differant regulations for ORV operation that differ from State land regulations,even for hunting.
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Old October 1st, 2008, 06:10 PM   #64
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http://www.archives.gov/federal-regi...der/11644.html

ok Bill, its writen that any head of a district no matter how big a dickhead may write his own laws to govern said district...easy enough. get a new head and have him thrown out on his ear.
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Old October 1st, 2008, 07:09 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Yetti View Post
http://www.archives.gov/federal-regi...der/11644.html

ok Bill, its writen that any head of a district no matter how big a dickhead may write his own laws to govern said district...easy enough. get a new head and have him thrown out on his ear.
And if you knew Les you would know he's far from a "dickhead".
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Old October 1st, 2008, 08:24 PM   #66
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Talking Her are some picture I took today of Magruder Road

Her are some picture I took today of Magruder Road





This is the south end of Magruder Rd and M20
There is a Seasonal Road sign in the picture



This is looking North down Magruder Rd ( at the South end ) at the big turn around. Not in picture is a road or trail off of it to the East and West and NO signs



This is farther down the road just passed where Olson Rd comes into it ( GPS showed Olson Rd ) This is the first mud Hole ( we turned around here I had the Jimmy and didn't want to get it dirty



This is Olson and Genveva
Is it legal to go straight ahead down the trail??????



This Magruder and Nielson ( at the North end of Magruder)
Notice there is No dead end road sign there.



This is Magruder Rd looking South at a big turn around
There is NO signs here



This at the same big turn around and shows a trail going off to the West
NO sign on that trail either



This is a big water mud hole on the North end of Magruder. This is as far South as we went.

From these picture where is it legal to go and NOT??????

Last edited by Bradv; October 1st, 2008 at 09:26 PM. Reason: Add picture
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Old October 1st, 2008, 09:05 PM   #67
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I would have rolled down any the roads or trails there, before this last mess. They look like all the other roads and trails we ride on.
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Old October 1st, 2008, 10:03 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yetti View Post
its nice that you have an opinion about this even though its counter to state law. and if you are a ranger you would know that.
He really is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TOPWOP View Post
Yetti,
324.81133 is a reference to operating on State Land area's I believe.

National Forest lands have some different regulations for ORV operation that differ from State land regulations,even for hunting.
I believe it's actually up to each individual Forest, not the Districts, but with the new Transportation Rule and resulting MVUMs coming out, I think all Forests will now have the same rules.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, DistrictRanger.
(He's always been fair in my dealings with him. )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradv View Post


This is a big water mud hole on the North end of Magruder. This is as far South as we went.

From these picture where is it legal to go and NOT??????
It all looks legal to me - PROVIDED (and I haven't seen a plat map yet) that the nonCRC portion of the road is a Forest Road that has simply seen seasonal weather related changes (puddles) that cause one to use 4wd to ensure successful navigation AND you travel the portion that lines up with the rest of the road (not way off at the edges where driving would widen the puddle and worsen the issue) AND you weren't excessively spinning your wheels throwing mud everywhere.

Were ALL of these conditions met?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradv View Post
I would have rolled down any the roads or trails there, before this last mess. They look like all the other roads and trails we ride on.
Agree WHOLE heartedly.


I ask again, PLEASE FIGHT THIS TICKET!
If you'd be willing, PM me your phone # and I'll call you!

Last edited by Trail_Fanatic; October 1st, 2008 at 10:10 PM.
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Old October 2nd, 2008, 05:12 AM   #69
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Court is always scary even when you are a 100% in the right and you know it. If you have a doubt it is even scarier.

Have you talked to a lawyer??????
If not DO IT before you plead guilty and pay the fine and possibly go to jail or both.
Do you know the penalties for this offence??????
fine $250 to $1000 and or 90 days in jail. ( if I am wrong PLEASE correct me )
this ISN"T a parking ticket it's the real thing.

This is my plea for you to fight this ticket
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Old October 2nd, 2008, 07:09 AM   #70
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And WHY would you just roll over and let a misdemeanor get attached to your record and follow you around for the rest of you life?
At the very least you should ask to see a Magistrate for an informal hearing to see if you can plead your case to get it dropped or get it reduced in severity. We've certainly identified enough questionable areas of understanding that it should raise some doubt.
There no downside to this hearing.
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Old October 2nd, 2008, 09:22 AM   #71
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If you do decide to fight it(which you should, by the way), please post so we know the outcome. I have been up there, and would like to know if it is legal. Not many places(non-private) to wheel around here.
Thanks!
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Old October 2nd, 2008, 09:38 AM   #72
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I think the majority of us are paying the ticket guys, all this info has been great, but we have to answer the complaint. To defend this is as an individual without sufficiant knowledge or resources we would dig a deeper hole. Some of us are new and don't know anyone, this is a great community, but untill our organizations have power and revise everything us little guys are not powerful kinda like at work, no one cares or can do anything, cause the power does't care just the money is sought. Thankyou
You're talking with the most knowledgeable group of PRO-4x4 people in the state, yet you're saying you don't have access to sufficient knowledge?

Between the information from kb8ymf, the local resident ironman and probably the single most educated person in the state on trail legality - trail_fanatic, you're absolutely crazy not to fight these tickets.

absolutely crazy would be a light term.

If you want a misdemeanor from an officer who was overstepping the law, then take it. But from the information you provided, it seems that you should not be forced to pay a penny, and you should not have any sort of ticket on your record for this.

AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, this will go to a judge and it will leave a decision on the legality of this road.
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Old October 2nd, 2008, 09:43 AM   #73
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cc can you ban him and his friends if they end up not fighting? please!
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Old October 2nd, 2008, 12:47 PM   #74
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Fail!
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Old October 2nd, 2008, 01:12 PM   #75
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if this area in question was within 20 miles of me i would go out there and get a ticket just so i could fight and do what needs to be done. But alas i'm more like 100 miles from said area and its not worth my gas to make several trips there and back.
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Old October 2nd, 2008, 01:24 PM   #76
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Sounds like you are admitting guilt to the charge. If you believed you were in the right you would at least set up an informal hearing. I would not want a misdemeanor on my record but I guess that's just me...
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Old October 2nd, 2008, 02:58 PM   #77
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As an attorney and someone who enjoys tread-lightly off-road activities, I cannot fathom why someone would accept a fine and a misdemeanor criminal conviction if they believed that their conduct was not, in fact, criminal.

Being broke or spineless is not a good reason to bend over and take it, at least in my book. If you're right, have some self-respect and fight it, even if it means spending money in the process.
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Old October 2nd, 2008, 03:26 PM   #78
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we were charged 100.00 for the offense, yes misdemeanor too. I personally paid it I don't know about the others.
Then you sir get the idiot of the year award.
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Old October 2nd, 2008, 05:58 PM   #79
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Quote:
computeruser As an attorney and someone who enjoys tread-lightly off-road activities, I cannot fathom why someone would accept a fine and a misdemeanor criminal conviction if they believed that their conduct was not, in fact, criminal.

Being broke or spineless is not a good reason to bend over and take it, at least in my book. If you're right, have some self-respect and fight it, even if it means spending money in the process.
I have a question????? How can the fine be less than the statute minimum of $250. Is it because they know the ticket is wrong.
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Old October 2nd, 2008, 06:07 PM   #80
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He did get the ticket in the communist county of Midland comrade
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