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Old September 25th, 2008, 09:44 AM   #21
83OlllO
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I have been down this "road" a few times. Even in a drought is is impassible with a car, let alone a truck. I don't know what the legal status of this is, but it is only a 2 track with trees on both sides, mostly . There is no "road closed" signs, but have heard of many tickets being written here.
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Old September 25th, 2008, 10:07 AM   #22
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Is the road actually posted as a 'seasonal road' at it's entrance? If not and it hasn't been legally condemned and abandon by the MCRC then it's definitly worth a fight.

Related: http://www.greatlakes4x4.com/showpos...7&postcount=16
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Old September 25th, 2008, 11:00 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by clarkstoncracker View Post
Off topic question really quick. When we go to the manistee national forest to camp, there are overgrown two tracks in between camp sites. These trails are sometimes 1000-1500' in length. I've always wondered what the legalities of driving on them are because I see the Forest Rangers using them.
I don't know when the "Official" start date is for the HMNF Motor Vehicle Use Map, I think 2009, but after that effective date any road, trail, etc that is NOT included on the MVUM is closed whether posted or not. It will be interesting, because the MVUM I have reviewed with Trail Fanatic is pretty crummy - no road names/designations in a lot of cases, and most of what is out there is not signed or marked on the ground in any way. The user is responsible for figuring out if they are in a "legal" place or not.
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Old September 25th, 2008, 11:44 AM   #24
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Fight it!
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I put a candy cane up my butt once.
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did it taste like shit after?
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I didn't taste it but the tree stunk when I hung it.
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Old September 25th, 2008, 05:06 PM   #25
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Based on the information that you have provided to this forum,I do not beleive that your ticket is a valid ticket, and would DEFINITLEY look into fighting it. However, I would NOT go to Court without the FACTS to back-up what you are presenting.

I have a friend of mine who knows the trail systems and Michigan roadways as well as anyone I know. If you are interested in talking to him, you can call my office at 810-249-0398. He has the knowledge to stir you in the right direction.

If there is one thing I've learned in my 51 years of life? Just because a Law Enforcment Officer writes a ORV citation, does NOT allways mean that the ticket has validity to it, ESPECIALLY when it comes to ORVs.

Ask 3 DNR officers the same question, often, you'll get 3 differant answers!
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Old September 25th, 2008, 05:36 PM   #26
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I will get this to trail fanatic asap, it is a county rd and has been forever, used it as far back as 1974, land owner at the end of the rd wines to the dept to write tickets because he wants no traffic past his house, county will not write tickets as they know its a road.
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Old September 25th, 2008, 05:46 PM   #27
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Just got off the phone with my friend and he knows the history of this Mcgruder road VERY well. Told me that it was indeed a County roadway and you have every right in the world to operate your Secretary of State [ SOS] licensed vehicle on it.

The only real way that you should/could have gotten a citation on this LEGAL County roadway is, IF you were operating your vehicle in an ERROSIVE manner [ you stated that you were not ]...And to be quite frank with you, I'd look up the MCL [ Michigan Compiled Law ] on your ticket and see EXACTLY WHAT LAW the Officer stated that you were in violation of.

If the citation is NOT for operating in an errosive manner, than you should FIGHT IT IMO. If it IS for operating in an errosive condition, than you better have your other 4 buddies back you up IF you felt that you were not operating that way.

FIRST?
You need to go directly to the Law Enforcement Office to where this officer [the one who wrote the ticket ], works at. Go directly to his/her Supervisor with the FACTS if you feel you are right.

If you've done your homework correctly, the ticket should get DROPPED right at the Law Enforcement Office from the Supervisor. If it does'nt, than you need to find out WHY and take it from there,

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Old September 25th, 2008, 05:47 PM   #28
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PAUL, [ SIGNMAN ]

Thank you for your quick response.

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Old September 25th, 2008, 07:19 PM   #29
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The only problem with getting the citation dropped before it goes to court, is then it does not create precedent for when it happens again...
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Old September 25th, 2008, 07:55 PM   #30
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QUOTE*
The only problem with getting the citation dropped before it goes to court, is then it does not create precedent for when it happens again...
END QUOTE*

Not completely true. I'll tell you why from experience..

I've had a few of my clients, get citations dropped from Supervisors because they had CLEARLY made their point and there was nothing for the Supervisor to dispute.

SO, what happens than, is the word in the Department gets out to other officers, that the ticket so/so wrote, was NOT a violation of Michigan ORV laws. So now, most of the Departments Law Enforcement Officers understand that they should'nt be writting a citation of the same nature,because it has been proven to have no merit.

Thus, it hopefully stops this harrassment.
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Old September 26th, 2008, 06:07 PM   #31
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Quote:
I will get this to trail fanatic asap, it is a county rd and has been forever, used it as far back as 1974, land owner at the end of the rd wines to the dept to write tickets because he wants no traffic past his house, county will not write tickets as they know its a road
I ask around at work and got the above back about the land owner but now he has a DNR officer as a friend so he call every time some one goes by.

and I looked on my new map and it is either a county road closed to ORVs or other road Closed to ORVs

And

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Legal road + SOS license = Not An ORV
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Old September 26th, 2008, 06:37 PM   #32
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A group of us recieved tickets on a deal like this in Sanford about 10 years ago. When the lawyer went to court the judge threw the tickets out & chewed out the DNR officer for writing the tickets. Please fight this ticket so that this kind of crap is stopped. If you need the name of the lawyer we used give me a pm.
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Old September 27th, 2008, 08:26 AM   #33
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I completely support the last two posts. I'd fight this baby and make sure this kind of arrogance does not happen to the next person.

In fact, if it were ME, I'd probably also file a HARRASSMENT charge against the officer who wrote the ticket. Far too much of this bogus ticket BS going on in Michigan with respect to ORVs.
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Old September 27th, 2008, 04:48 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by TOPWOP View Post
I completely support the last two posts. I'd fight this baby and make sure this kind of arrogance does not happen to the next person.

In fact, if it were ME, I'd probably also file a HARRASSMENT charge against the officer who wrote the ticket. Far too much of this bogus ticket BS going on in Michigan with respect to ORVs.
You should get your facts straight before you post. I have been a law enforcement supervisor for years and years. I have absolutely NO LEGAL AUTHORITY to dismiss a citation written by one of my officers. None. If you came to me whining about your ticket, I'd listen politely (if I had time) and refer you to the court to set up a hearing for you to dispute the citation. That's what courts are for. That's also written on the ticket and may have been explained by the officer when he/she wrote the ticket.

Several things you have written I happen to agree with so don't get all riled up. But, don't waste peoples time with bad advice either. Cops/DNR people make mistakes just like ALL people do. I have found over the years that seldom can you make accurate decisions hearing only ONE side of the story. That's what courts, juries and judges are for. To hear both sides and make an impartial decision.
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Old September 28th, 2008, 03:22 AM   #35
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I too have relatives that are in Law Enforcement.

If there is one thing I've learned in my 51 years of life is, that just because a LEO says something is a law, does not allways mean it is. Most Law Enforcement folks do a pretty good and loyal job, BUT, there are those that also take that badge and think they are God. Fact is, that there are some LEO's that make up laws as they go, and most average citizens think that because a cop tells you something is a law, it MUST be.

If I were given what I thought was a BS citation, you best beleive that I'd be doing exactly what I posted above. Last year, I actually called up a DNR officer [for one of my former students ] who wrote a BS ticket, and 45 minutes after my conversation with the officer, she called me back to tell me that the ticket she wrote had been dismissed.

Wasting time with bad advice?
Try telling the client above how much time of hers was wasted on taking my bad advice.
I wonder how much time is being wasted when a LEO harrasses someone with citations that have no merit, not to mention how much time that is going to be wasted in the Court system..

Last edited by TOPWOP; September 28th, 2008 at 07:32 AM.
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Old September 28th, 2008, 07:36 AM   #36
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I heard from one of the persons ticketed that they were going to just pay the fine and get on with it, and never wheel in Midland County again, because they knew it was illegal to wheel anywhere in Midland County.

What is the down side to pleading guilt to the misdemeanor ????

Will it haunt you later?????
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Old September 28th, 2008, 07:43 AM   #37
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ya it will haunt you! every one here will flame/rape you for being a puss and not standing up for your rights and every one else's as a 4x4er
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Old September 28th, 2008, 10:39 AM   #38
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Yeah. You'll have a misdemeanor conviction on your criminal record forever. If what you said happened are the facts, then fight the ticket. I would still like to hear what the Conservation Officer has to say though.

Now, let's just say that you're not really telling "all of the story"........and you did break the law and you know it..........I would fight the ticket and see if you can plead guilty to a lesser offense and keep a misdemeanor conviction off your criminal record.

Good luck.
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Old September 28th, 2008, 11:13 AM   #39
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I am hoping my wheeling buddy decides to fight it.

I only missed getting a ticket with them because of all the over time I have been working, and not having the jeep ready to run. Rolled it up to Twisted Trails in Copemish a few weeks ago. I need to take care of the excise body roll and keep the greasy side down.
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Old September 28th, 2008, 05:31 PM   #40
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What is the down side to pleading guilt to the misdemeanor ????
There's no up side, that's for sure. Lots of secondary consequences, most of them potential and abstract, but it would be a pain to be in a spot where a clean record versus a conviction/guilty plea would make a meaningful difference...

If the ticket is wrong, then fight it. It's not about money at this point.
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