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Old September 24th, 2008, 09:27 AM   #41
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Dino... As someone with a lot of education and experience in running a business, you are basically the owner of a huge store, like a Kroger. It has a ton of space, beautiful shelves, a state of the art checkout system, but nothing on the shelves to attract people to shop in your store. You charged people 2-3 times to walk around your aisles and see the store. Now, you need to spend your money to stock the shelves and create your own sustainable cash flow. There are a ton of people in Michigan with tons of money invested in their rigs, big trailers, and tow rigs. Driving a few extra hours to the Badlands, that has shelves full of shiny stuff to attract buyers, is not a problem for many of the people you want to attract. It is called working capital. You have to put up some money and effort up front before you open the doors. If a Kroger opens with barely stocked shelves, the next time some guy needs groceries, he will drive past your store to the Wal-Mart that is cheaper and has more stuff.
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Old September 24th, 2008, 09:38 AM   #42
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............


nicely put.
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Old September 24th, 2008, 11:15 AM   #43
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irace4money (Dino?), from your website I can see you have a great amount of attractions for the bike and quad riders and in my opinion that's great. They are clearly showing up in large numbers and why wouldn't they you have moto-x tracks for different ages and abilities, stunt ramps and all the trails as well.
I have never run my Jeep at any parks except yours and the Mounds. I have spoke to others who've been to the Badlands, as well as your place and from what I heard you don't hold a candle. That makes sense as the Badlands is established, which is why people will pay the rates they have. I attended the first two events at your property and skipped this last one, after the second time I became bored rather quickly and with zero improvements saw no reason to waste my money on a third trip.
I hope all works out with the bikes and quads, it doesn't matter if you make improvements or not, I will not go back to your property, it's a shame, because I have family in Glennie and could certainly frequent your area.
My hard earned dollars will go to the Badlands, Twisted Trails and if it materializes, the park in Harrison.
Just a side note; Twisted trails is large and getting larger. They offer new trails quite alot. When they get feed back on the park, they get it done, for those of you that are disappointed in OSTC, come on up to Twisted Trails, try it you'll like it, and the whole family will enjoy it.
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Old September 24th, 2008, 11:17 AM   #44
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Just a side note; Twisted trails is large and getting larger. They offer new trails quite alot. When they get feed back on the park, they get it done, for those of you that are disappointed in OSTC, come on up to Twisted Trails, try it you'll like it, and the whole family will enjoy it.
(and 80 miles closer for me)
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Old September 24th, 2008, 02:43 PM   #45
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I just wanted to post my comments, but they may not reflect everyones..

I had the opportunity to go over to OSTC (never been there) while I was up at the pig gig, but I had been talking to a lot of fellas that had been coming back early saying they were not having fun over there. Granted, I accept this at face value, as their idea of fun may be different than mine, but after finding out how much it would have cost me to get in over there, I passed on it and didnt give it a second thought.

I can't see spending that kind of cash to get into a park which, imho, is focused on ATVs and just uses a limited time to get people to show up. Out of curiosity, do ATV users pay that much for entrance into the park?

Feel free to comment on my post, but don't use my post as part of any about any of the people on here.
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Old September 24th, 2008, 04:35 PM   #46
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I just wanted to post my comments, but they may not reflect everyones..

I had the opportunity to go over to OSTC (never been there) while I was up at the pig gig, but I had been talking to a lot of fellas that had been coming back early saying they were not having fun over there. Granted, I accept this at face value, as their idea of fun may be different than mine, but after finding out how much it would have cost me to get in over there, I passed on it and didnt give it a second thought.

I can't see spending that kind of cash to get into a park which, imho, is focused on ATVs and just uses a limited time to get people to show up. Out of curiosity, do ATV users pay that much for entrance into the park?

Feel free to comment on my post, but don't use my post as part of any about any of the people on here.

I bet they don't pay an extra $5 a person so someone can enjoy a steak dinner...
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Old September 24th, 2008, 04:40 PM   #47
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There were SEVERAL really big rocks/boulders that could be moved with that big green machine. There were several just on the campsites (and they are a burdon for the people with trailors, its hard to back into spots with big boulders in the way), they arent doing anything just sitting there but everyone would love to drive on then and brake their axles on them It wouldnt cost anything but gas to move those things and there are enough of those to throw a great rock course together for the 35'' tires and up crew. I think our 3 events have brought you plenty of profit you wouldnt have gotten from bikes/atv's - so please put some of those rocks laying around to use :)

or even getting old cement slabs from somwhere to make a wall or somthing people can climb on or flex off of.

and the part about the bathrooms always being clean... You must think bathrooms dont get gross in the winter. I wont get into details but I have never seen a bathroom so neglected...

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Old September 24th, 2008, 04:50 PM   #48
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I have never been to OSTC but I do know that if they have a large number of boulders they are not using then someone should take them to some private property and build a rock course of their own. I have a small course and Im really out of room for anything bigger but I think if someone with a good chunk of property would build some stuff and maybe just charge $5-$10 to come and play then it would be worth it. Plus, it would be owned and managed by someone who wheels so you know it would always be open to trucks. Just a thought but maybe someone who knows the owner should tell him that for the profit everyone has helped bring in he should give them the boulders that are not ever going to be used otherwise.
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Old September 24th, 2008, 04:57 PM   #49
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It's really cool that Twisted Trails is doing well, getting good feedback and sounds like a good example of what OSTC should follow ... but, I believe this post is geared towards what can be done about the Trail Center and if you read his first post his appreciation that we were even there.


I'm looking forward to see what changes can be done before winter sets in. Sure, snow wheeling is fun, but I'd like to see some rocks and have something else to look forward to when spring sets in. winter.
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Old September 24th, 2008, 05:23 PM   #50
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better move on it dino ! rocks and valleys in harrison is opening in the spring ! and they are bulding stuff as i type .probably !

i camped in the rain and even drank some beers with ya sat night . i like your land but yes you should do some work for us ,to encourage us to want to come and " SEE WHAT DINO'S DONE THIS TIME" i will continue to come back .im on 35's and had a blast all day in the rain !,and i was also there in the spring ! and i will probably be there this winter !!

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Old September 25th, 2008, 05:22 AM   #51
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For what reason is there a fee for passengers on a day pass.....at any park........Most guys piss in the woods if its Potty cost. I just don't get it ! I can see if you are camping.
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Old September 25th, 2008, 09:16 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jthomp View Post
irace4money (Dino?), from your website I can see you have a great amount of attractions for the bike and quad riders and in my opinion that's great. They are clearly showing up in large numbers and why wouldn't they you have moto-x tracks for different ages and abilities, stunt ramps and all the trails as well.
I have never run my Jeep at any parks except yours and the Mounds. I have spoke to others who've been to the Badlands, as well as your place and from what I heard you don't hold a candle. That makes sense as the Badlands is established, which is why people will pay the rates they have. I attended the first two events at your property and skipped this last one, after the second time I became bored rather quickly and with zero improvements saw no reason to waste my money on a third trip.
I hope all works out with the bikes and quads, it doesn't matter if you make improvements or not, I will not go back to your property, it's a shame, because I have family in Glennie and could certainly frequent your area.
My hard earned dollars will go to the Badlands, Twisted Trails and if it materializes, the park in Harrison.
thats funny you got bored??? why dont you try some of the hard hills?you would be bored at the badlands too..because you would do your usuall sit and watch...i saw 2 hills at ostc, no one even tried? there was alot there to do.was it worth 35 bucks? well i drove 4 hours and was there for the weekend, hell yea it was worth it!!! would i like to see more..always. i have been to twisted trails 3 times this year. they have added more stuff every time i have been there.so that is what people are looking for is a change. the badlands change things every year.plus there is enough people going there the woods sections are always a little diffrent.it is nice to have diffrent places to go and not be illegal wheelin...i will pay 35 dollors all day long because its cheaper then any ticket and its better then working...helll i spend more then 35 dollors on 1 round of drinks at the bar...and i know alot of other people spend alot more then that....wtf is wrong with you guys???we have a park we can legally go wheel in and you complain???pay the money and shut up!!! yea would be nice to have more stuff!! well it would be nice if all the trails were still open that use to be..guess we cant have our cake and eat it too....give him some time...i see it as better then nothing...
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Old September 25th, 2008, 09:18 AM   #53
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For what reason is there a fee for passengers on a day pass.....at any park........Most guys in the woods if its Potty cost. I just don't get it ! I can see if you are camping.
twisted trails is 10 dollors a person....so you pay for passengers.
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Old September 25th, 2008, 09:55 AM   #54
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we have a park we can legally go wheel in and you complain???
Ironic isn't it.

Good point.
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Old September 25th, 2008, 10:17 AM   #55
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Ironic isn't it.

Good point.
I agree with silverxj and liv2mx. I've spent morer on dumber. I'd like to see it stay and grow.

Where it is now, it's good for a weekend run a couple of times a year. It be nice to see it grow and make it worth going up more frequently.
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Old September 25th, 2008, 10:24 AM   #56
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it's good for a weekend run a couple of times a year. It be nice to see it grow and make it worth going up more frequently.

X a billion...

I'll be back for sure, and I think with time it will get better.
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Old September 25th, 2008, 07:07 PM   #57
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Dino,

Thanks for opening the park to us.
I've had fun both times I went and didn't get bored.
I enjoy watching others as much as I love wheeling myself.

I hope you continue to make improvements to the place, so that there continues to be big turnouts.

I will be back.

Continue to make improvements and other will be back also.
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Old September 25th, 2008, 10:15 PM   #58
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? there was alot there to do.was it worth 35 bucks? well i drove 4 hours and was there for the weekend, hell yea it was worth it!!! would i like to see more..always.
i will pay 35 dollors all day long because its cheaper then any ticket and its better then working...helll i spend more then 35 dollors on 1 round of drinks at the bar...and i know alot of other people spend alot more then that....wtf is wrong with you guys???we have a park we can legally go wheel in and you complain???pay the money and shut up!!! yea would be nice to have more stuff!! well it would be nice if all the trails were still open that use to be..guess we cant have our cake and eat it too....give him some time...i see it as better then nothing...
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it's good for a weekend run a couple of times a year. It be nice to see it grow and make it worth going up more frequently.

x2

I had a blast each time i was
Twisted Trails will also see my bussiness

take silver lake that place is fun and boring after a while but we all go there time and time again for what wind changed dunes and not knowing whats on the other side the first time over the crest of the hill is the only time its FUN to see whats New...

which is why Twisted Trails will see more of my money then OSTC as a few club members and I talked about going to silver lake one day (less likly to break) and then hit Twisted Trails so its a 2 trip for one gas price kinda weekend and not be bored

lets face it when you go to SL on friday and wheel friday and all day saterday, going back out on sunday is hard as its getting boring, thats where Twisted Trails comes in keeps it real interesting

as far as OSTC i will go back from tiem to time when its open maybe not each time as I was only going each time before to show suport but it is more fun in the winter snow bog kinda way as there is no chalange unless it rains a ton and washes it all out which is why I had so much fun last time it was a blast as it was hard and I was shot down by many hills by late saterday
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Old September 25th, 2008, 11:00 PM   #59
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I think we need another build weekend, Deno can't do all this stuff alone. The last build weekend he had a busted up hand and could do nothing. The rest of us had a crash course in Back-hoe and Dozer 101 trying to move rocks from one place to another. With the amount of people that showed up for the last build weekend $20 bucks a person will buy enough fuel for the equipment that is already on site, I myself have no problem chipping in for some fuel. If I can make a better place to wheel thats great!!!!

The best part about the "build weekend" for me was when your hiking around the place on foot with a chain saw you get a better lay of the land, and know where more stuff is the next time you go back to wheel, plus you meet alot of people.
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Old September 29th, 2008, 10:38 AM   #60
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Well I was on vacation last week and missed all this fun.

I just got off the phone with Dino. We reviewed what has happened over the last year and where we are going. Trust me, he understands our wants and needs and plans to spend the remainder of this fall and early spring moving rocks. I told him when he has a pile of rocks ready to be placed, some of us will come for a day to help guide with the placement.

I have to realize that Dino had a major injury this summer which set him back at least a month. Our time from June to September included his busiest season during a time when he had to hire out the help to keep his track maintained. This place has huge potential and I am willing to give it the next 6-8 months to see what he develops. I ask you all to do the same.

Regarding charging for passengers. You can like it or leave it. He is running a business that has liability insurance. Every person who steps foot on his property is a potential lawsuit. Therefore, his business decision is that if I'm not making money off a person on my property, I'm not taking a risk of allowing them on my property. Which one of you who "owns" a business would dispute that? I may not like it nor I may not agree with it. But, the fact is, I can't argue that. I'm not paying the insurance premium every month.

So, my recommendation remains the same. Let's support the place as you can. Plan some snow wheeling there with your friends if you feel the need. Let's see what Dino comes up with for next spring. When something is in place, pics will be posted.

Jim
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