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Old September 23rd, 2008, 08:39 AM   #21
PeteC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by General Lee View Post
Yeah...My "Wow. Welcome to anti-capitalism." was in response to your post.

The rest was another train of thought.

I didn't feel like making two replies.

Should I check with you next time, or is that ok?
Um, no.

But you may want to define your posts a little. A swe all know, when you are just reading text it is hard to tell when somebody changes topics. There are no facial expressions to help, etc.

A little clarity goes a long way.




Quote:
Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
I'd reply but I have no idea what the heck you're talking about.

I posted it that way to see if anyone had actually been looking at the "Paulson" bail out legislation. Those "32 words" are Section 8 of that plan.
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Old September 23rd, 2008, 08:46 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by PeteC View Post
Um, no.

But you may want to define your posts a little. A swe all know, when you are just reading text it is hard to tell when somebody changes topics. There are no facial expressions to help, etc.

A little clarity goes a long way.
#ifndef
#define _MYPOST_

/************BEGIN POST**************/
/**/You can't see my facial expressions?
/**/I'm sorry to hear that man...
/************END POST****************/

#endif
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Old September 23rd, 2008, 09:01 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by General Lee View Post
www.google.com

Worked for me.
Why should I have to search for it when he obviously knew what he was talking about.

A little clarity goes a long way.

BTW would anyone care to share a link to it or do I have to go searching for that as well?
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Old September 23rd, 2008, 09:02 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by scottie View Post
So if the banking Industry gets 700 billion, how many billions will the auto industry get, because 25 billion won't put a dent in what the Domestics need
don't forget, the $ for domestic automotive is a LOAN approved by congress last year as part of an energy package. it is to be paid back and is therefore not a BAILOUT per se.
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Old September 23rd, 2008, 09:06 AM   #25
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don't forget, the $ for domestic automotive is a LOAN approved by congress last year as part of an energy package. it is to be paid back and is therefore not a BAILOUT per se.
Until the loan is never repaid and is just socialized like they are doing with the insurance, mortgage, and banking industry. They have all been socialized over the past couple weeks, yet nobody seems to be concerned by that.
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Old September 23rd, 2008, 09:06 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
Why should I have to search for it when he obviously knew what he was talking about.

A little clarity goes a long way.

BTW would anyone care to share a link to it or do I have to go searching for that as well?
#ifndef
#define _MYPOST_

/************BEGIN POST**************/
/**/ I agree.
/**/ Having to do work yourself sucks...

//Link:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0..._n_128294.html

/************END POST****************/

#endif
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Old September 23rd, 2008, 09:28 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by General Lee View Post
#ifndef
#define _MYPOST_

/************BEGIN POST**************/
/**/ I agree.
/**/ Having to do work yourself sucks...

//Link:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0..._n_128294.html

/************END POST****************/

#endif
I don't mind doing the work but it someone wants to discuss something they found somewhere common courtesy would dictate that you provide a link to where you found the information that is to be the subject of discussion.

And what I was hoping for would be a link to the Paulson plan itself, not some liberals website write up of one 32 word section taken out of context.

Iím sure I could find it by searching but I donít want to start randomly searching from work so further discussion will have to wait until I get home and can go find the actual complete text of the plan.
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Old September 23rd, 2008, 09:30 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
I don't mind doing the work but it someone wants to discuss something they found somewhere common courtesy would dictate that you provide a link to where you found the information that is to be the subject of discussion.

And what I was hoping for would be a link to the Paulson plan itself, not some liberals website write up of one 32 word section taken out of context.

Iím sure I could find it by searching but I donít want to start randomly searching from work so further discussion will have to wait until I get home and can go find the actual complete text of the plan.
#ifndef
#define _MYPOST_

/************BEGIN POST**************/

Sorry Bruce.

//Link:
http://paul.kedrosky.com/archives/20...f_paulson.html

/************END POST****************/

#endif
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Old September 23rd, 2008, 09:33 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by General Lee View Post
#ifndef
#define _MYPOST_

/************BEGIN POST**************/
/**/ I agree.
/**/ Having to do work yourself sucks...

//Link:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0..._n_128294.html

/************END POST****************/

#endif


You are such a well defined individual now.


The Huff post is one source, but there are some that do not like that source, so there are others as well.

Try this google search and take your pick on sources.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...+bail+out+plan


It has not yet been officially introduced in Congress, so the wording may eventually change.

FYI: I did not initially reference what the "32 words" were about for a couple of reasons. To get unbiased reactions and to see how much research is actually being done by others on this site.
About the unbiased reactions, I am sure that some of you have noticed that saying "1+1=2" will sometimes be accepted or dismissed based on the source of the statement, rather than the facts.
Research goes along the same lines. I have been accused of being a liberal because of things I have said in life and posted online. The truth of the matter is I prefer to research a subject as much as I can (with my limited time and resources) and draw my own conclusions. Finding information about "section 8" took a little research and a willingness to look at a "liberal, leftie, communist" site such as the HuffingtonPost to start the minds wheels spinning.
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Old September 23rd, 2008, 09:37 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteC View Post
You are such a well defined individual now.


The Huff post is one source, but there are some that do not like that source, so there are others as well.

Try this google search and take your pick on sources.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...+bail+out+plan


It has not yet been officially introduced in Congress, so the wording may eventually change.

FYI: I did not initially reference what the "32 words" were about for a couple of reasons. To get unbiased reactions and to see how much research is actually being done by others on this site.
About the unbiased reactions, I am sure that some of you have noticed that saying "1+1=2" will sometimes be accepted or dismissed based on the source of the statement, rather than the facts.
Research goes along the same lines. I have been accused of being a liberal because of things I have said in life and posted online. The truth of the matter is I prefer to research a subject as much as I can (with my limited time and resources) and draw my own conclusions. Finding information about "section 8" took a little research and a willingness to look at a "liberal, leftie, communist" site such as the HuffingtonPost to start the minds wheels spinning.
#ifndef
#define _MYPOST_

/************BEGIN POST**************/

I grabbed the huff stuff because it was one of the first links on Google that appeared to be relevant when I searched for 32 words.

//Apparently google has restricted its search to 32 words, so I was picking up
//some non-relevant articles.


The huff was not the source that I had initially read.

/***BTW!!!***/

int result;
int x = 2;
result = x/x;

//result now == 2

/************END POST****************/

#endif
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Old September 23rd, 2008, 09:38 AM   #31
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I................................................. ......
And what I was hoping for would be a link to the Paulson plan itself, not some liberals website write up of one 32 word section taken out of context.

.......................................

Here is another google search with a variety of sources for you to chooce from. I will not take the time to figure out which is "liberal" and which are acceptable to you.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=bail+out+plan+text


According to every source I have read so far, the 32 words ARE section 8. There are no more or less words in that section. I do not see how the context can be any more clear.
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Old September 23rd, 2008, 09:59 AM   #32
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Heres some more words from the Paulson plan:

Quote:
Sec. 3. Considerations.

In exercising the authorities granted in this Act, the Secretary shall take into consideration means for--

(1) providing stability or preventing disruption to the financial markets or banking system; and

(2) protecting the taxpayer.

Sec. 4. Reports to Congress.

Within three months of the first exercise of the authority granted in section 2(a), and semiannually thereafter, the Secretary shall report to the Committees on the Budget, Financial Services, and Ways and Means of the House of Representatives and the Committees on the Budget, Finance, and Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs of the Senate with respect to the authorities exercised under this Act and the considerations required by section 3.
There's your accountability.

My interpretation of section 8 is that once we tell the secretary what we want him to do we'll let him go do it rather than standing over his shoulder second guessing his every move. Also, I think they want to keep things streamlined and moving forward rather than creating another slow creaking bureaucracy that can't actually do anything because it's constantly bogged down with court cases and with everyone and their brother wanting to add their own little section to meet their special needs.
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Old September 23rd, 2008, 10:09 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
Heres some more words from the Paulson plan:



There's your accountability.

My interpretation of section 8 is that once we tell the secretary what we want him to do we'll let him go do it rather than standing over his shoulder second guessing his every move. Also, I think they want to keep things streamlined and moving forward rather than creating another slow creaking bureaucracy that can't actually do anything because it's constantly bogged down with court cases and with everyone and their brother wanting to add their own little section to meet their special needs.
I'm glad that I'll be "considered"...whatever that means...

I'll also look forward to hearing "reviews" of what decisions were made and their results.
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Old September 23rd, 2008, 10:20 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
Heres some more words from the Paulson plan:



There's your accountability.

My interpretation of section 8 is that once we tell the secretary what we want him to do we'll let him go do it rather than standing over his shoulder second guessing his every move. Also, I think they want to keep things streamlined and moving forward rather than creating another slow creaking bureaucracy that can't actually do anything because it's constantly bogged down with court cases and with everyone and their brother wanting to add their own little section to meet their special needs.

I do hope you are correct.

Just that those words thrown in, needs another look see, no matter what the intent.
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Old September 23rd, 2008, 10:26 AM   #35
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I'm glad that I'll be "considered"...whatever that means...

Better than being disregarded.
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Old September 23rd, 2008, 10:29 AM   #36
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Just for reference, Wheres teh entire text of "the plan"

Quote:
LEGISLATIVE PROPOSAL FOR TREASURY AUTHORITY TO PURCHASE MORTGAGE-RELATED ASSETS

Section 1. Short Title.

This Act may be cited as ____________________.

Sec. 2. Purchases of Mortgage-Related Assets.

(a) Authority to Purchase.--The Secretary is authorized to purchase, and to make and fund commitments to purchase, on such terms and conditions as determined by the Secretary, mortgage-related assets from any financial institution having its headquarters in the United States.

(b) Necessary Actions.--The Secretary is authorized to take such actions as the Secretary deems necessary to carry out the authorities in this Act, including, without limitation:

(1) appointing such employees as may be required to carry out the authorities in this Act and defining their duties;

(2) entering into contracts, including contracts for services authorized by section 3109 of title 5, United States Code, without regard to any other provision of law regarding public contracts;

(3) designating financial institutions as financial agents of the Government, and they shall perform all such reasonable duties related to this Act as financial agents of the Government as may be required of them;

(4) establishing vehicles that are authorized, subject to supervision by the Secretary, to purchase mortgage-related assets and issue obligations; and

(5) issuing such regulations and other guidance as may be necessary or appropriate to define terms or carry out the authorities of this Act.

Sec. 3. Considerations.

In exercising the authorities granted in this Act, the Secretary shall take into consideration means for--

(1) providing stability or preventing disruption to the financial markets or banking system; and

(2) protecting the taxpayer.

Sec. 4. Reports to Congress.

Within three months of the first exercise of the authority granted in section 2(a), and semiannually thereafter, the Secretary shall report to the Committees on the Budget, Financial Services, and Ways and Means of the House of Representatives and the Committees on the Budget, Finance, and Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs of the Senate with respect to the authorities exercised under this Act and the considerations required by section 3.

Sec. 5. Rights; Management; Sale of Mortgage-Related Assets.

(a) Exercise of Rights.--The Secretary may, at any time, exercise any rights received in connection with mortgage-related assets purchased under this Act.

(b) Management of Mortgage-Related Assets.--The Secretary shall have authority to manage mortgage-related assets purchased under this Act, including revenues and portfolio risks therefrom.

(c) Sale of Mortgage-Related Assets.--The Secretary may, at any time, upon terms and conditions and at prices determined by the Secretary, sell, or enter into securities loans, repurchase transactions or other financial transactions in regard to, any mortgage-related asset purchased under this Act.

(d) Application of Sunset to Mortgage-Related Assets.- -The authority of the Secretary to hold any mortgage- related asset purchased under this Act before the termination date in section 9, or to purchase or fund the purchase of a mortgage-related asset under a commitment entered into before the termination date in section 9, is not subject to the provisions of section 9.

Sec. 6. Maximum Amount of Authorized Purchases.

The Secretary's authority to purchase mortgage-related assets under this Act shall be limited to $700,000,000,000 outstanding at any one time

Sec. 7. Funding.

For the purpose of the authorities granted in this Act, and for the costs of administering those authorities, the Secretary may use the proceeds of the sale of any securities issued under chapter 31 of title 31, United States Code, and the purposes for which securities may be issued under chapter 31 of title 31, United States Code, are extended to include actions authorized by this Act, including the payment of administrative expenses. Any funds expended for actions authorized by this Act, including the payment of administrative expenses, shall be deemed appropriated at the time of such expenditure.

Sec. 8. Review.

Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency.

Sec. 9. Termination of Authority.

The authorities under this Act, with the exception of authorities granted in sections 2(b)(5), 5 and 7, shall terminate two years from the date of enactment of this Act.

Sec. 10. Increase in Statutory Limit on the Public Debt.

Subsection (b) of section 3101 of title 31, United States Code, is amended by striking out the dollar limitation contained in such subsection and inserting in lieu thereof $11,315,000,000,000.

Sec. 11. Credit Reform.

The costs of purchases of mortgage-related assets made under section 2(a) of this Act shall be determined as provided under the Federal Credit Reform Act of 1990, as applicable.

Sec. 12. Definitions.

For purposes of this section, the following definitions shall apply:

(1) Mortgage-Related Assets.--The term mortgage- related assets means residential or commercial mortgages and any securities, obligations, or other instruments that are based on or related to such mortgages, that in each case was originated or issued on or before September 17, 2008.

(2) Secretary.--The term Secretary means the Secretary of the Treasury.

(3) United States.--The term United States means the States, territories, and possessions of the United States and the District of Columbia.
That's it. I was expecting some 1000 page document.
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Old September 23rd, 2008, 10:32 AM   #37
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Better than being disregarded.
Is it?

I'd agree if I felt that "consideration" was actually...Oh, what's the right word...concrete.

If there was some measurable benefit to the taxpayers that'd be different, IMO. "Consideration" is an ambiguous word thrown in there to make the plan seem to be "in the public's best interest". When all hell's breaking loose, the big man can say that he did consider us!!! We can't blame him!!!
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Old September 23rd, 2008, 11:13 AM   #38
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Here's some clarity for you all.....

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aSKSoiNbnQY0

What the article doesn't mention is that Raines is a top consultant in the Obama campaign. Mr. Raines worked for 91.1 million dollars per year while at Fannie and when he left he received a 1 million dollar a year pension that will last until his death, paid for with tax payer's money. All the while he drove the place into the ground. Now he is Senator Obama's economic advisor in the presidential campaign.

I can't believe that Fannie & Freddie were able to make political contributions with tax payer dollars. How can that be legal?

This whole story stinks to high heaven.
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Old September 23rd, 2008, 11:43 AM   #39
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Here's some clarity for you all.....

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aSKSoiNbnQY0

What the article doesn't mention is that Raines is a top consultant in the Obama campaign. Mr. Raines worked for 91.1 million dollars per year while at Fannie and when he left he received a 1 million dollar a year pension that will last until his death, paid for with tax payer's money. All the while he drove the place into the ground. Now he is Senator Obama's economic advisor in the presidential campaign.

I can't believe that Fannie & Freddie were able to make political contributions with tax payer dollars. How can that be legal?

This whole story stinks to high heaven.
because aren't they appointed? those scammers will not see much more than a slap on the wrists. I would put them up against the death penalty. period. those fawkers would not be able to write checks fast enough paying back some money if they had to die for it.

obama rejects the free market economy. lets face it, he is all about the socialism and income redistribution. spending and political pay scales and benefits need to be reduced to remove some of the burdon on the taxpayers. cut everything by 1/2 pay and benefit wise for all politicians. when and only when this happens will they be focused on correcting some of the issues. right now there is no reason for them to fix anything, it really isn't affecting them as it does the everyday american.
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Old September 23rd, 2008, 11:47 AM   #40
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Ron Paul.
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