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Old September 21st, 2008, 10:58 AM   #1
Infinite_Wisdumb
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Government Bank Bailout?

What are your opinions on this latest debacle? The gov't wants to pass a bill for 700 billion to bail out banks. Thats OUR tax monies. Here is some thought on the aftermath of such a bailout:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26808498/

From the article:

Cause for concern
It is the rapidly rising debt that is cause for concern. The government is already spending more than $400 billion a year just to pay interest on the national debt. The higher that debt goes, the higher the government's borrowing costs and the less it has to spend on other programs.

400 BILLION on interest? WTF?

We are in serious trouble, pretty soon, the govt credit rating will be junk status (if it isnt already) and they wont be able to borrow money. We need some fiscal responsibility here.

Can anyone remember the last president to have a budget surplus?
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Old September 21st, 2008, 11:26 AM   #2
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Can anyone remember the last president to have a budget surplus?
The Clinton administration reaped the benefits of the seeds planted during the Reagan administration, and harvested by the "Contract With America" congress. His biggest (and only) financial contribution the downsizing and dismantling of the military - the cause of some of our spending today.

Water under the bridge.

Today we have a two-front war, the need to buff-up our military to deal with a renewed cold war (Russia, China, North Korea, and Iran), a deep economic down-cycle, and the bill coming due for poorly thought-out credit policies.

A different landscape that the Clinton administration.

However, something different has to be done. I'm not sure what it is, but I'm pretty sure that Obama's plan of handing out money and raising taxes ain't it.
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Old September 21st, 2008, 11:53 AM   #3
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The Clinton administration reaped the benefits of the seeds planted during the Reagan administration, and harvested by the "Contract With America" congress. His biggest (and only) financial contribution the downsizing and dismantling of the military - the cause of some of our spending today.

Water under the bridge.

Today we have a two-front war, the need to buff-up our military to deal with a renewed cold war (Russia, China, North Korea, and Iran), a deep economic down-cycle, and the bill coming due for poorly thought-out credit policies.

A different landscape that the Clinton administration.

However, something different has to be done. I'm not sure what it is, but I'm pretty sure that Obama's plan of handing out money and raising taxes ain't it.
This excuse drives me nuts. Can you give me some references that show that the Reagan policies only took effect 7 years later? These type of answers are the type that people use to rally their argument either way. If Bush had 8 great economic years, everyone would say "Bushies doing a great job". Not that the Clinton policies helped Bush. If the next president is republican and the deficit goes down everyone will say "Bushie did a great job with the bailout". If the next pres is a democrat and the deficit goes up it will be said "Look at the spendy, no good democratic congress wasting all kinds of money."

The facts are that Clinton was the last president that had a budget surplus. Spin it any way you want, he couldnt have predicted that Bush would lead us into an unnecessary war with Iraq, wasting billions of dollars. Maybe if all of our energy and time wasnt focused on needless wars, people would have been paying attention to, and had the resrouces for, preemting this crisis we are in before it became unbearable. We are spending too much time worrying about the rest of the world and not enough time worrying about our own country IMO.


I agree that I am scared of Obamas free money plans he has been touting. I have no idea how we are going to pay for that and if it will make any difference to our financial situation. I cant wait for the debates to see where each candidate actually stands on the issues.
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Old September 21st, 2008, 12:43 PM   #4
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Here's a few hundred pages of federal budget history: http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget...8/pdf/hist.pdf

Draw your own conclusions.

It looks to me that most of the Clinton surplus was due to increased revenue (taxes) rather then any real constraint on spending.
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Old September 21st, 2008, 01:03 PM   #5
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So if the banking Industry gets 700 billion, how many billions will the auto industry get, because 25 billion won't put a dent in what the Domestics need
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Old September 21st, 2008, 01:43 PM   #6
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I concur that Clinton had a budget surplus - it's a well-documented fact.

Can you tell me what actions his administration took that led to that situation?

Other than increasing taxes. you'll find it was little. His biggest contribution was to simply let it alone, and let the market work - or in the case of March 2000, implode.

I'm also not a Dubya apologist. Going into Iraq (or Afghanistan) without a clear exit strategy in place was unwise. Tolerating things like the Iraqi government selling diesel fuel to us at market price in unconscionable. However, it appears that finally we're on a course to get out, thanks to Petraeus's strategies.

The first gulf war may have set the exit criteria too low, and they were too rigid in it's execution - but the criterion were clear, and established in advance. Excellent scope control.
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Old September 21st, 2008, 08:39 PM   #7
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I figure 700 billion comes out to better than $2000 per person for every man, woman, and child in the country. They should already have my address, so just send me mine.

I think there's a bigger problem here. Somewhere along the line we, both as individuals and the government, have lost all sense of fiscal responsibility. It seems like in the olden days if you wanted the nicest things you worked hard to be able to afford them, and if you didn't want to work hard you just did without those things. Now, if we want something we borrow for it and worry about paying for it later. This may work if tomorrow is really going to be better than today, but once things start to fall they'll just keep falling at a faster and faster rate. I'm beginning to wonder if measure like this are only delaying the eventual fall, and deepening the hole into which we will fall.
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Old September 22nd, 2008, 05:16 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_Wisdumb View Post
This excuse drives me nuts. Can you give me some references that show that the Reagan policies only took effect 7 years later? These type of answers are the type that people use to rally their argument either way. If Bush had 8 great economic years, everyone would say "Bushies doing a great job". Not that the Clinton policies helped Bush. If the next president is republican and the deficit goes down everyone will say "Bushie did a great job with the bailout". If the next pres is a democrat and the deficit goes up it will be said "Look at the spendy, no good democratic congress wasting all kinds of money."

The facts are that Clinton was the last president that had a budget surplus. Spin it any way you want, he couldnt have predicted that Bush would lead us into an unnecessary war with Iraq, wasting billions of dollars. Maybe if all of our energy and time wasnt focused on needless wars, people would have been paying attention to, and had the resrouces for, preemting this crisis we are in before it became unbearable. We are spending too much time worrying about the rest of the world and not enough time worrying about our own country IMO.


I agree that I am scared of Obamas free money plans he has been touting. I have no idea how we are going to pay for that and if it will make any difference to our financial situation. I cant wait for the debates to see where each candidate actually stands on the issues.

Chairman Greenspan was telling the public, prior to the 2000 election, and without knowing who would win, that we we're diving into a ression and posssibly a full blown depression.

This was going to happen whoever ended up in office.

George Bush is done in 40 some day's

Bill Clinton isn't there either.

I think you hit the nail on the head with us worrying about things out of country.

Our new foriegn policy has to be the U.S. comes first period.

Dude, I kinda like the new you.
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Old September 22nd, 2008, 06:13 PM   #9
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Perhaps you are onto something here Toes. If Greenspan is a large percentage portion of the problem (probable), then noone would be able to lay the blame on one party or the other. I will look into this more, thanks!
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Old September 22nd, 2008, 09:18 PM   #10
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We need to tax more and spend less. simple. Vote for me!
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Old September 22nd, 2008, 10:52 PM   #11
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We need to tax more and spend less. simple. Vote for me!
That's crazy talk. I suppose the next thing you're going to tell me is that if I eat less and exercise more I'll lose weight. What a kook.
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Old September 22nd, 2008, 11:03 PM   #12
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We need to tax more and spend less. simple. Vote for me!
who will get taxed more?
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Old September 23rd, 2008, 07:15 AM   #13
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...before the gov can give away any money, they first have to take it.

That is my issue with the Obama stuff.

Our government is acting like a larger version of what's going on with the individuals of this country. We're spending and spending, and, oh, we'll worry about the bill later...



Pretty effin' sad.
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Old September 23rd, 2008, 07:23 AM   #14
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...before the gov can give away any money, they first have to take it.

That is my issue with the Obama stuff.

Our government is acting like a larger version of what's going on with the individuals of this country. We're spending and spending, and, oh, we'll worry about the bill later...



Pretty effin' sad.
Yep, let our children and grandchildren figure out how to pay for it.
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Old September 23rd, 2008, 07:24 AM   #15
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The "32 words"


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Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency.
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Old September 23rd, 2008, 07:30 AM   #16
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The "32 words"
/*************REPLY TO PETEC*******************/
/**/Wow. Welcome to anti-capitalism.
/********************************************/

//New train of thought to contribute to discussion:
Ya' know...one of the lessons my dad taught me when I was younger and we'd go hunting together, is to try to stop animals from suffering as much as possible. If you had a poor shot and the animal was injured but not dead, finish the job. Don't let it suffer.

I think the gov. needs to learn when to let shit die. If we prop up a suffering animal and expect it to rebound to full health...we got issues...
//End of new train of thought

Last edited by General Lee; September 23rd, 2008 at 08:18 AM.
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Old September 23rd, 2008, 08:07 AM   #17
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Wow. Welcome to anti-capitalism.

Ya' know...one of the lessons my dad taught me when I was younger and we'd go hunting together, is to try to stop animals from suffering as much as possible. If you had a poor shot and the animal was injured but not dead, finish the job. Don't let it suffer.

I think the gov. needs to learn when to let shit die. If we prop up a suffering animal and expect it to rebound to full health...we got issues...

What does that have to do with what I posted?

Those "32 words" have to do with a lack of oversight and accountability in the current bail out plan.
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Old September 23rd, 2008, 08:12 AM   #18
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What does that have to do with what I posted?

Those "32 words" have to do with a lack of oversight and accountability in the current bail out plan.
Yeah...My "Wow. Welcome to anti-capitalism." was in response to your post.

The rest was another train of thought.

I didn't feel like making two replies.

Should I check with you next time, or is that ok?
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Old September 23rd, 2008, 08:27 AM   #19
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The "32 words"
I'd reply but I have no idea what the heck you're talking about.
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Old September 23rd, 2008, 08:31 AM   #20
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I'd reply but I have no idea what the heck you're talking about.
www.google.com

Worked for me.
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