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Old September 17th, 2008, 04:46 PM   #1
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Obama will not shut up about "big oil" and how he will stop them. The average profit margin of the "big oil" companies is 7.68%. Why is obama so set on moving into the private sector to disrupt companies that are making 7.68%??? That is not taking too much of a profit in the least bit..


Why isn't he talking about "big education" or "big mortgage"????

The government controls the school systems, and the school systems are absolutely horrible. Public schools are a total joke.

What about the government controlled mortgage system? It is destroying home prices and destroying families across the nation.

Why would anybody want to see government control over oil? Will that work out as well as the banking and education systems?
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Old September 17th, 2008, 04:54 PM   #2
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how bout big ins. or big pharmaceuticals? those crooks are even worse.
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Old September 17th, 2008, 04:56 PM   #3
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Your missing nothing.

He is saying whatever will get him in office.

He will probably offer to suck free cocks in San Fran and Wipe asses for free at the Geriatric Homes in Florida

The feds should control everything!!!!!!
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Old September 17th, 2008, 08:29 PM   #4
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[QUOTE=clarkstoncracker;1289959]Obama will not shut up about "big oil" and how he will stop them. The average profit margin of the "big oil" companies is 7.68%. Why is obama so set on moving into the private sector to disrupt companies that are making 7.68%??? That is not taking too much of a profit in the least bit..


Why isn't he talking about "big education" or "big mortgage"????


Because it is an out in the open emotional issue with most people. Check out Wal-Mart, their profit margin is higher than 8% but you don't see him screaming about Wal-Mart
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Old September 17th, 2008, 09:03 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkstoncracker View Post
Why isn't he talking about "big education" or "big mortgage"????

The government controls the school systems, and the school systems are absolutely horrible. Public schools are a total joke.

What about the government controlled mortgage system? It is destroying home prices and destroying families across the nation.

Why would anybody want to see government control over oil? Will that work out as well as the banking and education systems?
How many public schools have you attended??? How many children do you have going to a public school??? How many public school teachers do you know personally??? (Not being personal CC, but I went to 8 different public schools, and I have 1/2 my kids going to public, the other one cost 6k year more which is cheap but cost was not the issue).. STATES control the education system for the most part, and it is run by local board systems from there. Property taxes go to the state, the fed. gives money to states, and lotto money is supposed to help. I know that much of the money in recent years has been going towards replacing 50 year old buildings.

To say it is a "joke" is going a little far.

Public schools are only as good as the parents of the students want them to be. Teachers can only do so much, but they are professionals for the most part.

Please tell me why a gov. controlled oil company is bad.(besides gov. fawking most things up) The oil (ok some) is in our country. Oil is a matter of national security. All those oil wells that everyone thinks we should put up are going to be taking a natural resource
that is in our borders and and sold on a market that is controlled by foreign nations.

I'm not for a larger gov. by any stretch...and I'm not trying to defend Obama.. this is about issues.because any of them will say anything to get in.


but if people think that drill drill drill is going to prevent higher prices at the pump, then they are naive.

IF:The US government started drilling, refining and selling oil to US citizens for cost then we should put a oil well in every persons backyard. That OIL (our oil) is going to go into the same pipes and be sold for the same amount as OIL from OPEC. Add in Gov. taxes and the fact that the dollar is in the shitter and you have 4.00 a gallon with a annual event like a hurricane..or fear of hurricane...when OIL is trading for @$90.00 a barrel.


ok I'll put it like this...


What if Evian and 5-10 other water companies started pumping billions of barrels of water from the greatlakes everyday??? (and pretend that saltwater can't be turned into freshwater) You and I would never notice....and water should and always be inexpensive to us..how much do you think people in Saudi Arabia would pay for freshwater??? I know my water bill is about 1/3 of people out west...and I can water my lawn if I want.

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Old September 17th, 2008, 09:07 PM   #6
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Where did you find the 7.68% figure?

Not agreeing or disagreeing, just curious.

Google search returned several sites, but the margin ranged from 4% to 10%, still not a whopper of a number, but it would be nice to know whom you are quoting.

Related note- does anyone think we've reached peak oil yet?
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Old September 17th, 2008, 09:11 PM   #7
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I think the thing thats being over looked is who how and when the oil industry got DE regulated back in the days of GB senior and Regan. they made it way to easy for this to happen by removing the caps on the percentagies on how much oil companys could charge. same with natural gas & electric companies. the idea was to make it more competitive and drive the price down...see where thats gotten them?
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Old September 17th, 2008, 09:39 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by toolmantim View Post
How many public schools have you attended??? How many children do you have going to a public school??? How many public school teachers do you know personally??? :
andersonville elementary, clarkston middle school, clarkston high school, so three.

I don't have any children.

I know 5 or 6 teachers.
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Old September 17th, 2008, 10:24 PM   #9
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There have been no caps removed on electric or natural gas, which are regulated at the state level. Prices are up because fuel is more expensive, and clean air regulations require massive investments in pollution reduction technology. DTE put over $650M into the Monroe plant so far (not done yet) to bring it up to current standards.

I'm not ware of any oil price caps lifted by prior or administrations.

Obama is beating the "big oil" drum because:
1) oil (and hence gas, diesel, and fuel oil) prices are up
2) "big oil" is code for , especially Dubya
3) with increased revenue driven by increased prices, oil company profits are up - the rate may be the same, but the volume is higher. And in the wealth redistribution mindset of Obama, that money needs to go to voters ASAP...
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Old September 17th, 2008, 10:44 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkstoncracker View Post
andersonville elementary, clarkston middle school, clarkston high school, so three.

I don't have any children.

I know 5 or 6 teachers.
See and your not so dumb. I'm sure you can recall a teacher or 2 that was a lifelong influence in some ways.

Just saying the education system is far from a joke. It works because of community's, and it fails for many of the same reasons. It is an example of a social type program that can work, with freedom of choices both on what is being taught, and who is doing it.

I have to agree with Yetti. De-regulation has done nothing but raise prices on energy, and yet we are getting our electricity from the same places we were 20 years ago... except we are doing it more efficiently.

Natural gas is abundant locally and nationally...and while the actual COST per cubic ft of gas has risen quite a bit, the recovery/delivery fees and other unknown numbers can and do fluctuate monthly.

I have about 40-50 hours of time involved over the last 8 years with trying to find out about significant fluctuations in the fees outside of my actual gas usage. When I call the gas co. I get directed right to the local boss. They shut off my gas 2 months after I moved in my current house cause they found a micro-leak at the side-walk. It was December, my son was a infant, they did not tell anyone. A note was all they left. I was angry, I called them for months angry. I keep records and I know math. It WAS personal....

I also have grandmother who has lived on a micro-tight budget for decades. She deals with the same "overhead" as many, except she has not driven a car in 50 years. Gas, electric, phone. Cable was a luxury but she had it in 85....anyway I saw some of her records and was surprised at how many things have changed...and I can account for inflation to an extent.
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Old September 17th, 2008, 11:04 PM   #11
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I was public schooleded

I aint no joke yall
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Old September 17th, 2008, 11:18 PM   #12
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Old September 18th, 2008, 09:18 AM   #13
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I don't think public schools in general are the problem. It all points back to economy and our welfare system.

In highly populated areas, where terms like inner city and ghetto are used, public schools may be lacking, and private schools may in turn excel. But that is not the case with most of the country. In general, you can't say that private schools are any better than the public schools. If in fact they are, it is much of the time due to the people they accept.

The government needs to stop worrying so much about all of these problems that are a result of other problems. They need to start worrying about; a) overpopulation, and b) economy.

Economy doesn't mean screwing with interest rates and the stock market, it means business' and jobs. It means, the government doing what it can to support the American business and worker, and to promote growth. You make the economy better, and many of the other problems go away.

Overpopulation, well that should explain it's self. More people = less resources = more problems.
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Old September 18th, 2008, 09:34 AM   #14
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Only understand apparently...
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Old September 18th, 2008, 10:39 AM   #15
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Empty promises...

More government control is never a good thing, but sometimes is needed in certain instances. These instances are not where more government control is needed, except to get rid of drilling restrictions.
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Old September 18th, 2008, 12:22 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toolmantim View Post
Please tell me why a gov. controlled oil company is bad.(besides gov. fawking most things up) The oil (ok some) is in our country. Oil is a matter of national security. All those oil wells that everyone thinks we should put up are going to be taking a natural resource
that is in our borders and and sold on a market that is controlled by foreign nations.
Here's why it's bad.

Ignoring the Marxist ideals that government control represents.....

1.) Government control= more power over the people = less freedom.

2.) If the Government controled the oil then they would be taking the oil profits and using it for other purposes than reinvestment into the oil business. Mortgage companies doing bad? Bail them out with oil profits. Then by not reinvesting back into the company the rigs would age and the business would become less efficent, new technologies would not come on line. Eventually the industry infrastucture would crumble and the price would continue to rise.

People would complain about the high price and in order to get re-elected politicians would artifically lower oil prices by taking money from other parts of the government, like the mortgage industry, to prop up the oil industry. That, in turn, would lower the profits of the mortgage industry and reduce it's reinvestment ability, destroying that infrastructure as well.

It's a cycle of diminishing results, ending in the the government going belly up.

Sorry the free market has none of these problems. More government is not the answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by toolmantim View Post
I'm not for a larger gov. by any stretch...and I'm not trying to defend Obama.. this is about issues.because any of them will say anything to get in.

but if people think that drill drill drill is going to prevent higher prices at the pump, then they are naive.
I am by no means naive. I understand the laws of supply and demand very well. If you think that by increasing the supply the price won't go down, you are being naive. It doesn't matter if the oil is sold on the world market or right here at home, the supply will increase and the price will drop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by toolmantim View Post
IF:The US government started drilling, refining and selling oil to US citizens for cost then we should put a oil well in every persons backyard. That OIL (our oil) is going to go into the same pipes and be sold for the same amount as OIL from OPEC. Add in Gov. taxes and the fact that the dollar is in the shitter and you have 4.00 a gallon with a annual event like a hurricane..or fear of hurricane...when OIL is trading for @$90.00 a barrel.

Do you think that if the gov't takes over oil that the "at cost" price would be lower than todays price that includes 7.68% profit? You'd have to believe the government is 7.68% more efficient or that no profits will be reinvested back into the business.

Private business = win
Government = lose.
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Old September 18th, 2008, 05:34 PM   #17
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Sorry the free market has none of these problems. More government is not the answer.
I am by no means naive. I understand the laws of supply and demand very well. If you think that by increasing the supply the price won't go down, you are being naive. It doesn't matter if the oil is sold on the world market or right here at home, the supply will increase and the price will drop.

But you are ignoring that the supply is being controlled by OPEC. It is a commodity that might be traded on a global market, but the supply is controlled by a few foreign nations. You know how much a gallon of gas is in Saudi Arabia??? clicky

You ever hear of DeBeers??? They are the OPEC of diamonds..clicky That story is from a 1982 publication, the first couple paragraphs sums much of it up.... and they are currently in a class action suit.

And I'll bet you thought you paid a fair market price for your wife's ring..
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Old September 18th, 2008, 05:38 PM   #18
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But you are ignoring that the supply is being controlled by OPEC. It is a commodity that might be traded on a global market, but the supply is controlled by a few foreign nations. You know how much a gallon of gas is in Saudi Arabia??? clicky

\Puerto Rico is an American territory, look at their price of gas. WTF?
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Old September 18th, 2008, 05:44 PM   #19
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heres one for you tool man time since the dems took control of house and senate gas prices have doubled they currently just passed a bill threw the house that would get rid of tax breakes for oil compaines im not against a govermentally controled oil compaine the problem is socilism has to have a religion to look good and right know it is this green thing and the dems jumped right on bored so they are going to make sure that gas fuel oil and other things are going to get worse so socilism looks like a good idea and public school are crap i know my moms a specile ed teacher and in davison teachers are not allowed to give a kid below a C because it hurts his self asteam well no we have a bunch of under educated kids in the work force and it is due to things like no child left behind and mistakes made by the sorry short on time so no periods and about spelling
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Old September 18th, 2008, 05:53 PM   #20
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I have to agree with Yetti. De-regulation has done nothing but raise prices on energy, and yet we are getting our electricity from the same places we were 20 years ago... except we are doing it more efficiently.

Natural gas is abundant locally and nationally...and while the actual COST per cubic ft of gas has risen quite a bit, the recovery/delivery fees and other unknown numbers can and do fluctuate monthly.
Deregulation of electric & gas has not benefited residential customers at all.

In MI, residential rates are subsidized by commercial ratepayers (i.e. Meijer pays more so you pay less). Large industrials pay less due to massive volume - some large industrials pay based on demand, rather than actual usage.

MI deregulation benefited commercials and small industrials. They could buy power from Independent Energy Suppliers (IESes) at market rates and compete with the utilities.

Well, "compete" is a poor choice of words, since the utilities are required to sell at the MPSC-set rate, well above the market price - but at the same time are also required to sell at wholesale market rates to the IESes, so they can re-sell it at a profit, yet still below the mandated utility price. Yes, you read this correctly, the electric utilities are required to build and maintain generation capacity (including an excess safety margin in case a plant drops), maintain the distribution system, billing, etc... AND sell discounted power to their competition, so they can in turn re-sell it to the utility's former customers at a profit.

So much for "competition", eh? But it gets worse. Initially, the utilities were required to PAY their customers to sign up with the IESes to "stimulate" competition. One customer was paid over $1 million by a local utility to sign up with a competitor.

You'd think that the people who drafted those rules worked for the IESes. They didn't, at least not until the rules were passed into law, and several went onto their new jobs at the larger IESes.

Deregulation? BS.
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