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Old September 20th, 2008, 05:29 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by dragginwagon406 View Post
Scientific assertions about the beginning and end of humanity are a source of constant backpedaling. Christianity's assertions are clear and stedfast.
Beacuse it's all based on an old story. There's not alot to argue without a time machine. Scientists admit that they don't know everything about the past. You have a hard time addmiting that though. Where do dinosaurs fit in? What about all of the Gods that were worshiped before Jesus was even around?
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Old September 20th, 2008, 05:34 AM   #142
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What if another manuscript was found that said that the Bible was just a story made up for children, then went on to tell the true story of Jesus? Would you believe that, or just turn a blind eye? I'm just saying that there is no proof, it's a bunch of old stories that you choose to believe.

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Old September 20th, 2008, 01:50 PM   #143
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What if another manuscript was found that said that the Bible was just a story made up for children, then went on to tell the true story of Jesus? Would you believe that, or just turn a blind eye? I'm just saying that there is no proof, it's a bunch of old stories that you choose to believe.

We could take the same stand on any historical event, but you choose to believe what was written about Abraham Linclon, King Henry the VIII, or any thing that you didn't actually experience first hand.

What if ?????
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Old September 20th, 2008, 10:11 PM   #144
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What about all of the Gods that were worshiped before Jesus was even around?
The first written history of a god was the God of the Jews, who is also the God of Christians with clarity and forgiveness provided later by his manifested body of Jesus. Any other worshiped gods that preceed Jesus (BC) were created by man long after the Jewish God was documented.

Do you even read the stuff you write? You provide a lot of hypothetical situations with no actual evidence to support your position.
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Old September 20th, 2008, 10:32 PM   #145
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Origins of Major World Religions: Crash Course; listed in order of first documented text.

Judaism: Abraham first written in 1812 BC
http://www.simpletoremember.com/vita...sh_History.htm

Christianity: Same as Judaism as Judeo-Christian origins are the same. New Testiment "next chapter" around 100 AD.

Hinduism: No text exists prior to 1000 BC. Highly debated with agreement that it is likely a merger of previous pagan religions: "The genesis of Hinduism is nearly as elusive as its contemporary definition. Unlike Islam, which began with Mohammed, or Judaism, which began with Moses, Hinduism has no founder, nor any traditional time or place of origin; it emerges from the jungle as a continually evolving religious system. Scholars debate the primary source of what would become the Hindu religion, though all agree that several cultures had an influence."
http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2579

Buddism: 589-525 BC First enlightenment of Buddha.
http://buddhism.kalachakranet.org/time-line.html

Muslim / Islam: 610 A.D. by the "prophet" Muhammad
http://www.allaboutreligion.org/Origin-Of-Islam.htm

Mormon: Joseph Smith 1816 A.D.
http://www.xmission.com/~research/about/index.htm

Jehovah's Witness: Charles Taze Russell 1872 A.D.
http://www.mostmerciful.com/jw%2...are%20they.htm

Scientology: Lee Ron Hubbard 1950 A.D.
http://home.snafu.de/tilman/j/origins6.html
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Old September 21st, 2008, 07:58 AM   #146
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Really, are you seriously saying that Jesus' father was the first God spoken of? Are you smoking crack? http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_th...n_in_the_world
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Old September 21st, 2008, 08:25 AM   #147
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Really, are you seriously saying that Jesus' father was the first God spoken of? Are you smoking crack? http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_th...n_in_the_world


I've got to agree with, do you read what you post???

The first sentence say's nobody knows, then later it say's Cain an Able would be the first to perform a religious ceremony.

?????????????????????????????????????????

I gotta go It's time for church.
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Old September 21st, 2008, 10:35 AM   #148
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I've got to agree with, do you read what you post???

The first sentence say's nobody knows, then later it say's Cain an Able would be the first to perform a religious ceremony.

?????????????????????????????????????????

I gotta go It's time for church.
It looks like you are only reading what you want to read. The VERY first line says that the Egyptians came around 3000BC, which would make them older. The very first sentance says that nobody knows the first religion. Of course nobody REALLY knows because it may have not been discovered yet. You also say that "Cain and Abel both made offerings unto the Lord, the Creator of all. According to the Biblical view, all other religions would have come after this time and developed from it, essentially as creations of man." Yes, most religions claim that the first ceromony was performed for their God at the beginning of man. Bottom line is that there is proof that other religions were worshiping Gods before any word of your God was ever spoken.

I didn't find any of this hard to follow.
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Old September 21st, 2008, 10:43 AM   #149
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It looks like you are only reading what you want to read. The VERY first line says that the Egyptians came around 3000BC, which would make them older. The very first sentance says that nobody knows the first religion. Of course nobody REALLY knows because it may have not been discovered yet. You also say that "Cain and Abel both made offerings unto the Lord, the Creator of all. According to the Biblical view, all other religions would have come after this time and developed from it, essentially as creations of man." Yes, most religions claim that the first ceromony was performed for their God at the beginning of man. Bottom line is that there is proof that other religions were worshiping Gods before any word of your God was ever spoken.

I didn't find any of this hard to follow.
The fact that the egyptians existed around 3000 BC does not dispute the fact that the first WRITTEN documents of religion came from the Jews around 1800 BC. It's difficult to project what religions were being practiced prior to this as there is no written record, leading only to speculation. Why are you so angry? Try to be objective when you are reading. This information is from secular theologists not from a biased source. In essence you are now disputing historical facts with your suppositions.
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Old September 21st, 2008, 10:51 AM   #150
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Just if you're bored, you might want to skim this over.
http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/burni...ited-part-two/

Here's an excerpt I liked.
And it is now a known fact that the gospels — which contradict one another on so many points they are their own worst enemies — were written at least 150 years after the purported life of Christ. And they are the singular texts that recount the Christ story. In one of the most advanced civilizations in human history, the Roman, combined with the highly learned Jewish culture at the time, packed with writers and scholars, no one thought to write a single word down about a man who could raise the dead, and who was crucified by mob justice contrary to all legal conventions of the time.
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Old September 21st, 2008, 10:57 AM   #151
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The fact that the egyptians existed around 3000 BC does not dispute the fact that the first WRITTEN documents of religion came from the Jews around 1800 BC. It's difficult to project what religions were being practiced prior to this as there is no written record, leading only to speculation. Why are you so angry? Try to be objective when you are reading. This information is from secular theologists not from a biased source. In essence you are now disputing historical facts with your suppositions.
How so? We know that the Egyptians worshiped the sun God Helios because of all the hyroglyphics they left for us. How am I disputing any historical facts? I believe the STORY of Jesus was just a rewritten story stolen from Egypt. Almost everything in the Bible has appeared in text before Jesus was even in existance.

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Old September 21st, 2008, 04:16 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by clint357 View Post
Just if you're bored, you might want to skim this over.
http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/burni...ited-part-two/

Here's an excerpt I liked.
And it is now a known fact that the gospels which contradict one another on so many points they are their own worst enemies were written at least 150 years after the purported life of Christ. And they are the singular texts that recount the Christ story. In one of the most advanced civilizations in human history, the Roman, combined with the highly learned Jewish culture at the time, packed with writers and scholars, no one thought to write a single word down about a man who could raise the dead, and who was crucified by mob justice contrary to all legal conventions of the time.


The guy that wrote that Jarred Cinman also wrote an article about how the CIA put together FACEBOOK.

HMMMM
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Old September 21st, 2008, 04:19 PM   #153
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The fact that the egyptians existed around 3000 BC does not dispute the fact that the first WRITTEN documents of religion came from the Jews around 1800 BC. It's difficult to project what religions were being practiced prior to this as there is no written record, leading only to speculation. Why are you so angry? Try to be objective when you are reading. This information is from secular theologists not from a biased source. In essence you are now disputing historical facts with your suppositions.

Why not!!!!!


LOL
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Old September 21st, 2008, 04:23 PM   #154
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[QUOTE=clint357;1295148]It looks like you are only reading what you want to read. The VERY first line says that the Egyptians came around 3000BC, which would make them older. The very first sentance says that nobody knows the first religion. Of course nobody REALLY knows because it may have not been discovered yet. You also say that "Cain and Abel both made offerings unto the Lord, the Creator of all. According to the Biblical view, all other religions would have come after this time and developed from it, essentially as creations of man." Yes, most religions claim that the first ceromony was performed for their God at the beginning of man. Bottom line is that there is proof that other religions were worshiping Gods before any word of your God was ever spoken.

I didn't find any of this hard to follow.QUOTE]


Does that include the part that say's nobody know's, or do you believe you are the exception???????
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Old September 21st, 2008, 05:58 PM   #155
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Origins of Major World Religions: Crash Course; listed in order of first documented text.

Judaism: Abraham first written in 1812 BC
http://www.simpletoremember.com/vita...sh_History.htm

Christianity: Same as Judaism as Judeo-Christian origins are the same. New Testiment "next chapter" around 100 AD.

Hinduism: No text exists prior to 1000 BC. Highly debated with agreement that it is likely a merger of previous pagan religions: "The genesis of Hinduism is nearly as elusive as its contemporary definition. Unlike Islam, which began with Mohammed, or Judaism, which began with Moses, Hinduism has no founder, nor any traditional time or place of origin; it emerges from the jungle as a continually evolving religious system. Scholars debate the primary source of what would become the Hindu religion, though all agree that several cultures had an influence."
http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2579

Buddism: 589-525 BC First enlightenment of Buddha.
http://buddhism.kalachakranet.org/time-line.html

Muslim / Islam: 610 A.D. by the "prophet" Muhammad
http://www.allaboutreligion.org/Origin-Of-Islam.htm

Mormon: Joseph Smith 1816 A.D.
http://www.xmission.com/~research/about/index.htm

Jehovah's Witness: Charles Taze Russell 1872 A.D.
http://www.mostmerciful.com/jw%2...are%20they.htm

Scientology: Lee Ron Hubbard 1950 A.D.
http://home.snafu.de/tilman/j/origins6.html
There are Egyptian pyramid text that are believed to be written around 2000 BC. or earlier. http://www.sacred-texts.com/egy/pyt/index.htm

There is no actual proof that Moses wrote the first books of the bible, and there seems to be evidence that they were actually written much later by other people. http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_tora1.htm

Some sources claim Hindu texts date to 1500 BC. http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/

Buddhists, like many other early religions including Christianity did not write their beliefs down in written form for many (perhaps hundreds) of years.

Islam, like Christianity, traces it's origins back to early Jewish history.

Mormon and Jehovah's Witnesses both are based on Christianity, but with other things added.

Scientology was based on the writing of a science fiction writer.

Many religions seem to have started as oral histories and we're committed to writing until much later. Religion seems to predate that advent of written language. Islam seems to be about the first religion to be written down right away.
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Old September 21st, 2008, 08:11 PM   #156
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[QUOTE=Mr Toes;1295487]
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It looks like you are only reading what you want to read. The VERY first line says that the Egyptians came around 3000BC, which would make them older. The very first sentance says that nobody knows the first religion. Of course nobody REALLY knows because it may have not been discovered yet. You also say that "Cain and Abel both made offerings unto the Lord, the Creator of all. According to the Biblical view, all other religions would have come after this time and developed from it, essentially as creations of man." Yes, most religions claim that the first ceromony was performed for their God at the beginning of man. Bottom line is that there is proof that other religions were worshiping Gods before any word of your God was ever spoken.

I didn't find any of this hard to follow.QUOTE]


Does that include the part that say's nobody know's, or do you believe you are the exception???????

It says that nobody knows the OLDEST OF ALL RELIGIONS because we may have not discovered it yet. I'm arguing that the Egyptians had a God to worship before the Father of Jesus was ever spoken of. Do you agree with this?
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Old September 22nd, 2008, 10:10 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by clint357 View Post
Just if you're bored, you might want to skim this over.
http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/burni...ited-part-two/

Here's an excerpt I liked.
And it is now a known fact that the gospels which contradict one another on so many points they are their own worst enemies were written at least 150 years after the purported life of Christ. And they are the singular texts that recount the Christ story. In one of the most advanced civilizations in human history, the Roman, combined with the highly learned Jewish culture at the time, packed with writers and scholars, no one thought to write a single word down about a man who could raise the dead, and who was crucified by mob justice contrary to all legal conventions of the time.
First, there is not a single contradiction between the gospels. Whoever wrote that clearly does not know the stories. There are very distinct differences, but it is more about point of view / perspective from different authors than contradictions.

And yes, I know the gospels weren't written until 100+ years after Jesus's life on earth. That is clearly stated in my "history" thread.
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Old September 22nd, 2008, 12:13 PM   #158
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[QUOTE=clint357;1295824]
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It says that nobody knows the OLDEST OF ALL RELIGIONS because we may have not discovered it yet. I'm arguing that the Egyptians had a God to worship before the Father of Jesus was ever spoken of. Do you agree with this?
Nope
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Old September 22nd, 2008, 01:22 PM   #159
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[QUOTE=Mr Toes;1296688]
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Nope
Based on what?
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Old September 22nd, 2008, 03:47 PM   #160
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[QUOTE=clint357;1296802]
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Based on what?

Genesis, and or Exodus, or even The Septuagint.
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