This is sure to piss people off... - Page 10 - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest

Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

Politics, Government, or Religion Chat Bring your flamesuit!

greatlakes4x4.com is the premier Great Lakes 4x4 Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old September 24th, 2008, 05:14 AM   #181
clint357
Web Wheeler Extraordinair
 
clint357's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-13-07
Location: grand rapids
Posts: 2,278
iTrader: (4)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

[QUOTE=2007JK;1299187]You have been deceived by the serpent. It's in your nature as a man. But Jesus provides the opportunity of redemption

Quote:
Originally Posted by clint357 View Post

Now the serpent was craftier than any other field animal that Yahweh God had made. And it said to the woman, "So, did God say, 'You will not eat from any tree of the garden'?"

And the woman said to the serpent, "We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden, but God said, 'You will not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the garden, neither will you touch it; otherwise you will die.'"

And the serpent said to the woman, "Surely, you will not die. For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good from evil."

When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate. And she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate. Then the eyes of both were opened, and they realized they were naked, and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loin cloths.

And they heard the sound of Yahweh God walking in the garden in the day's breeze, and the man and his wife hid themselves from Yahweh God's presence among the trees of the garden.

Then Yahweh God called to the man, saying to him, "Where are you?" And he said, "I heard the sound of you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked. And so I hid myself."

And he said, "Who told you that you were naked? Did you eat from the tree in the middle of the garden, from which I directed you not to eat?"

And the man said, "The woman that you gave to be with me, she gave me fruit from the tree, and I ate it."

Then Yahweh God said to the woman, "What is this that you have done?"

And the woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate."

Did this just turn into a game of posting scriptures that are totally irrelevant to the conversation? Seriously, why did you post that?
clint357 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old September 24th, 2008, 06:23 AM   #182
General Lee
Slice of Starsage Anyone?
 
General Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-09-05
Location: Kalamazoo, MI
Posts: 5,070
iTrader: (7)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to General Lee
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ckupq View Post
NO, but this pretty much sums it up. Thanks to Revho for the assist, even though I changed things I couldn't have put it better.

I've seen people change, lose, change back and find religion/faith and they all have one thing in common They're not wrong. Its honestly the reason we have flair ups every couple millenia (crusades, spanish inquistion, salem witch trials). This will pass and we'll be fine.
'NO' what?

This will 'pass' as in, I will be posting links to the messages and they will be discussed. More importantly than "we'll be fine" is that hopefully we'll all learn something. (Don't blow that out of proportion Sova, I didn't say what we'd all learn.)

Just curious though...did you say that "They're not wrong"? As in all religions are correct? IMO that's the most inane opinion you could draw...

Quote:
Originally Posted by clint357 View Post
Did this just turn into a game of posting scriptures that are totally irrelevant to the conversation? Seriously, why did you post that?
First off, you suck at the quotage.

Secondly, he was saying you've been misguided.
General Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24th, 2008, 07:35 AM   #183
ckupq
Kitten I'm gonna eat you!
 
ckupq's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-07-05
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA 52402
Posts: 3,393
iTrader: (6)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by General Lee View Post
'NO' what?

This will 'pass' as in, I will be posting links to the messages and they will be discussed. More importantly than "we'll be fine" is that hopefully we'll all learn something. (Don't blow that out of proportion Sova, I didn't say what we'd all learn.)

Just curious though...did you say that "They're not wrong"? As in all religions are correct? IMO that's the most inane opinion you could draw...



First off, you suck at the quotage.

Secondly, he was saying you've been misguided.
Sorry, at this moment in time NO we can't coexist.

"they're not wrong" comes from people having strength in their faith. This observation is fairly well founded (especially in this thread). I wouldn't expect a man raised muslim from birth to question if his faith is the correct one, nor would I expect a 80 Catholic man who has devoted is his life to God. To expect that either one to change if he is strong in his faith is implausable, but not impossible.
ckupq is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24th, 2008, 08:06 AM   #184
clint357
Web Wheeler Extraordinair
 
clint357's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-13-07
Location: grand rapids
Posts: 2,278
iTrader: (4)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by General Lee View Post
'NO' what?

This will 'pass' as in, I will be posting links to the messages and they will be discussed. More importantly than "we'll be fine" is that hopefully we'll all learn something. (Don't blow that out of proportion Sova, I didn't say what we'd all learn.)

Just curious though...did you say that "They're not wrong"? As in all religions are correct? IMO that's the most inane opinion you could draw...



First off, you suck at the quotage.

Secondly, he was saying you've been misguided.
I think that you've been misguided. How's that for an informed, logical comeback. That's on par with saying "because" for an answer.
clint357 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24th, 2008, 08:17 AM   #185
General Lee
Slice of Starsage Anyone?
 
General Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-09-05
Location: Kalamazoo, MI
Posts: 5,070
iTrader: (7)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to General Lee
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by clint357 View Post
I think that you've been misguided. How's that for an informed, logical comeback. That's on par with saying "because" for an answer.
wat?

You were asking what he meant by the scripture.

I replied that he was saying that you were misguided.

So, you are now trying to say that I was misguided in my statement that he said that you were misguided?

I'm pretty sure that I was not misguided in my response that he was trying to say that you were misguided.

but 2007JK is the only person who can truly let you know if my response was misguided or if I accurately conveyed what his intentions truly were.


Cliffs: Your response = teh sux.
General Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24th, 2008, 08:21 AM   #186
TurboChris
Senior Member
 
TurboChris's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06-29-07
Location: Montague,Michigan
Posts: 741
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Clint do you know what Agnostic is?
It meas that you believe in Jesus but believe that you are not worhty of worshiping him.
TurboChris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24th, 2008, 08:23 AM   #187
General Lee
Slice of Starsage Anyone?
 
General Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-09-05
Location: Kalamazoo, MI
Posts: 5,070
iTrader: (7)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to General Lee
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboChris View Post
Clint do you know what Agnostic is?
It meas that you believe in Jesus but believe that you are not worhty of worshiping him.
Do you know what a Real Christian is? Knowing you're not worthy, but doing it anyway!

Sorry, I couldn't help it!
General Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24th, 2008, 10:28 AM   #188
clint357
Web Wheeler Extraordinair
 
clint357's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-13-07
Location: grand rapids
Posts: 2,278
iTrader: (4)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboChris View Post
Clint do you know what Agnostic is?
It meas that you believe in Jesus but believe that you are not worhty of worshiping him.
Good work
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism
clint357 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24th, 2008, 10:32 AM   #189
clint357
Web Wheeler Extraordinair
 
clint357's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-13-07
Location: grand rapids
Posts: 2,278
iTrader: (4)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by General Lee View Post
wat?

You were asking what he meant by the scripture.

I replied that he was saying that you were misguided.

So, you are now trying to say that I was misguided in my statement that he said that you were misguided?

I'm pretty sure that I was not misguided in my response that he was trying to say that you were misguided.

but 2007JK is the only person who can truly let you know if my response was misguided or if I accurately conveyed what his intentions truly were.


Cliffs: Your response = teh sux.

I know what he meant. I was just saying that he really didn't need to post scripture and try to somehow tie that into this discussion. It would have been just as informative if he had just written "You have been misguided", which would have shed no light on this subject. The fact still remains that there were gods praised before your God (the Father of Jesus) was known to exist. I'm still waiting for an answer to this.
clint357 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24th, 2008, 10:53 AM   #190
amc78cj7
Senior Member
 
amc78cj7's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-07-05
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,353
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by clint357 View Post
I know what he meant. I was just saying that he really didn't need to post scripture and try to somehow tie that into this discussion. It would have been just as informative if he had just written "You have been misguided", which would have shed no light on this subject. The fact still remains that there were gods praised before your God (the Father of Jesus) was known to exist. I'm still waiting for an answer to this.
How so? If Adam and Eve were the first humans and they worshiped God, how could any other gods be praised before our God?
__________________
I'm not quoting idiots who promote unsafe recovery strap techniques anymore. :miff:
amc78cj7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24th, 2008, 11:20 AM   #191
mikesova
My 4x4 is a Subaru.
 
mikesova's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Gladwin, MI
Posts: 7,784
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to mikesova
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2007JK View Post
How so? If Adam and Eve were the first humans and they worshiped God, how could any other gods be praised before our God?
Were Adam and Eve the first humans? I haven't really been paying attention to this argument, so are you are just assuming that they were for the sake of the argument or do you actually believe that that is a fact?

AND if Adam and Eve were the first humans, why the hell would the Egyptians worship any other god than the Judeo/Christian/Muslim god?
mikesova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24th, 2008, 11:41 AM   #192
amc78cj7
Senior Member
 
amc78cj7's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-07-05
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,353
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesova View Post
Were Adam and Eve the first humans? I haven't really been paying attention to this argument, so are you are just assuming that they were for the sake of the argument or do you actually believe that that is a fact?
I do believe they were the first humans. In fact this is a key element in the argument for creationism vs. evolution. I understand the viewpoint from non-Christians. What I don't understand is a Christian who believes in evolution because it completely contradicts the foundation of the religion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesova View Post
AND if Adam and Eve were the first humans, why the hell would the Egyptians worship any other god than the Judeo/Christian/Muslim god?
Scientology has only been around since 1952 (clearly after Adam and Eve), yet they firmly believe we came from aliens. There are lots of examples of cultures worshiping false gods. Egyptians are one of them. The arguement is exclusive however. A false god can exist, but that does not mean all god(s) are false. Just like money. A false money can exist (counterfeit) but not all moneys are false.
__________________
I'm not quoting idiots who promote unsafe recovery strap techniques anymore. :miff:
amc78cj7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24th, 2008, 12:04 PM   #193
MT-Dawg
Camel Buggy
 
MT-Dawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-02-07
Location: F-L-I-N-T South Side
Posts: 735
iTrader: (6)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

As 2007JK says, Anything can be worshipped as a god...money, women, sex, a picture, an animal.

It seems like this whole thread is "misguided"...or derailed off the tracks. What was the original discussion about again?
__________________
"Opportunity knocks once" Not true... In some cases it never comes knocking, you have to go out and grab it by the hippie pony tail, and drag it over to your place for wine and chocolate."
MT-Dawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24th, 2008, 12:06 PM   #194
amc78cj7
Senior Member
 
amc78cj7's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-07-05
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,353
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MT-Dawg View Post

It seems like this whole thread is "misguided"...or derailed off the tracks. What was the original discussion about again?
Religion. Always stirs debate.
__________________
I'm not quoting idiots who promote unsafe recovery strap techniques anymore. :miff:
amc78cj7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24th, 2008, 12:06 PM   #195
General Lee
Slice of Starsage Anyone?
 
General Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-09-05
Location: Kalamazoo, MI
Posts: 5,070
iTrader: (7)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to General Lee
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MT-Dawg View Post
As 2007JK says, Anything can be worshipped as a god...money, women, sex, a picture, an animal.

It seems like this whole thread is "misguided"...or derailed off the tracks. What was the original discussion about again?
Seek ... and ye shall find Post #1.
General Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24th, 2008, 01:13 PM   #196
clint357
Web Wheeler Extraordinair
 
clint357's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-13-07
Location: grand rapids
Posts: 2,278
iTrader: (4)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

So, 2007 KJ, you are saying that Adam and Eve were the first humans and worshipped the real God then that religion vanished without a trace for thousands of years while false Gods were worshipped and then Jews found the real God again? You are also saying that the story of Adam and Eve PROVES that we are worshipping the one and only true God. What if the Egyptians have a similar story? Their religion was printed first and says that they worship the true God, so why would a God worshipped later be the REAL God?

You are basing everything you believe on documents written thousands of years after the first Gods were worshiped. Documents which were also written about 150 years after Jesus, said to be the most important mortal in history, died. Please telll me if any of this information does not make sense.
clint357 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24th, 2008, 01:17 PM   #197
MISHOWJEEPER
NSFW
 
MISHOWJEEPER's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-06-07
Location: Lapeer MI
Posts: 2,239
iTrader: (13)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Religion is for Pussies. Face your mortality like a man
MISHOWJEEPER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24th, 2008, 01:44 PM   #198
amc78cj7
Senior Member
 
amc78cj7's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-07-05
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,353
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by clint357 View Post
So, 2007 KJ, you are saying that Adam and Eve were the first humans and worshipped the real God then that religion vanished without a trace for thousands of years while false Gods were worshipped and then Jews found the real God again?
No, I am saying the bible clearly documents that God was worshiped by the Jews from Adam and Eve forward. The recording of history didn't come until later.

For example, I could write a history of the Egyptian religious practices dating back to 4000B.C. today. The manuscript would show up as being written in 2008, but that would not mean the egyptians began worshiping gods only from 2008 forward.

WTF are you reading? How can you not understand this concept.
__________________
I'm not quoting idiots who promote unsafe recovery strap techniques anymore. :miff:

Last edited by amc78cj7; September 24th, 2008 at 02:16 PM.
amc78cj7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24th, 2008, 02:16 PM   #199
amc78cj7
Senior Member
 
amc78cj7's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-07-05
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,353
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MISHOWJEEPER View Post
Religion is for Pussies. Face your mortality like a man
Christians embrace their mortality without fear. It's everybody else who is afraid of death.
__________________
I'm not quoting idiots who promote unsafe recovery strap techniques anymore. :miff:
amc78cj7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24th, 2008, 02:32 PM   #200
clint357
Web Wheeler Extraordinair
 
clint357's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-13-07
Location: grand rapids
Posts: 2,278
iTrader: (4)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2007JK View Post
No, I am saying the bible clearly documents that God was worshiped by the Jews from Adam and Eve forward. The recording of history didn't come until later.

For example, I could write a history of the Egyptian religious practices dating back to 4000B.C. today. The manuscript would show up as being written in 2008, but that would not mean the egyptians began worshiping gods only from 2008 forward.

WTF are you reading? How can you not understand this concept.
Egyptian records predate Jewish records. Egyptians say that their God created Earth and Man. Jewish records say that their God created Earth and Man. The only thing seperating the two is that the records from the Egyptians predate those of the Jews. Sorry if my previous quote was unclear.
clint357 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:40 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright 2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Page generated in 0.28817 seconds with 80 queries