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Old September 12th, 2008, 09:43 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Infinite_Wisdumb View Post
Good luck on this one. If you make a reasonable salary of 50k, take home is 72% of that = 36,000. Lets assume you put 6% into your 401k like a good worker, your take home is now 33,000. 25% of this is 8250. Divide by 12 = 687 a month.

GOOD LUCK WITH THAT. Youll be living in the ghetto forever.
A $687 mortgage is like a 95,000 home at 20 years? Or if you want to add on tax and insurance (which has nothing to do with the calculation) to that number you'll just have to settle for an ~80,000 home at 30 years.

I just bought a good house in a nice area for way less than $700 a month...
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Old September 12th, 2008, 09:51 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by fastrt6dakota View Post
Dear ultra-entitled asshole,

So... in closing, I really hope that you can look inside the empty void of yourself where a soul should be, and realize that just because you're well off and doing fine in these tough times, not everyone else is. I wish you all the luck of a laid off auto worker, including the repossession of your vehicles, removal of your benefits, foreclosure of your home, your family being hungry, and the overly stressful and difficult task of finding a job when there are 50,000 other people just like you trying to find the same jobs you're applying for. Good luck moving to another state when you don't have a vehicle to put what's left of your things in. Good luck borrowing from friends and family when they're in the same situations. Welcome to Michigan. Land of the Free, Home of the foreclosed.


Asshole...
I think you mean "Land of the Free and Home of the UAW!
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Old September 12th, 2008, 09:54 AM   #23
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Hey fastrt6dakota,

If you need any work done, let us know Daryl is our advanced sales rep!
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Old September 12th, 2008, 10:07 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by fastrt6dakota View Post
Dear ultra-entitled asshole,
Monkeyevil… ultra-entitled? lol
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Originally Posted by fastrt6dakota View Post
Some of us "poor people" HAD great jobs that paid great money, and some of us were even sticking money into the bank rather than living paycheck to paycheck. Unfortunately, due to poor planning on just about everyone's part, some of those who were making decent money and not having any issues living, are no longer able to lead that lifestyle.

"Get another job"... there are 168 hours in a week. Assuming you don't sleep, eat, or go home, the average "go-getter" such as yourself should be able to work 4 - 40 hour jobs and still have 8 hours left over for travel time. With most decent jobs requiring at least a Bachelors degree, you can assume that if you find one (or maybe two) jobs working in your degree'd field, you can make upwards of $20/hour for those jobs. The other two, we can just assume you're willing to make $8.25 working at your local Home Depot or Kroger, since you won't find another decent paying job that will let you work off-hours. Don't worry about your family... they'll understand, and they know you'll see them again in 30 years when your mortgage is paid off.
If jobs in your field pay $20 an hour you have 3 choices… 1. get into a different field, 2. take a second job, or 3. learn to live on $20 an hour. You are not entitled to anything more than what you earn. If you can’t live the lifestyle you’d like off the money you can make in your chosen field it’s just not my fault.
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For the rest of the normal people, let's take your average Ford engineer. They had to spend at least 4 years getting to a Bachelors degree in a fairly specialized field, usually Electrical or Mechanical Engineering. Let's just forget about the student loans they probably racked up in the process of getting that degree. We'll move on to salary; I'll pick a low number, since you mentioned "take home pay". Let's say your average engineer takes home $50,000 per year. That's roughly a $30/hr payrate, minus taxes and benefits. So if their mortgage should be 25% of their take home pay rate, you're now talking $12,500. I really hope what you're trying to say is that if they get $50k a year in pay, they should be paying $12.5k a year in mortgage. It really comes across that you're trying to say they should only buy a house that cost $12,500, which is just plain idiotic.
Thanks, but those of us with marginal levels of intelligence were able to understand that what monkeyboy was talking about was mortgage payment, not the loan amount. Sorry that you couldn’t see that. If you can’t afford a $1000 a month house payment, don’t get one.
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I, for example, happen to love America. Here in the good ole US of A, we have the right to spout the drooling, moronic, clueless bits of misinformation that your post has just exhibited, and we can do so without fear of persecution. I'm sadly disappointed that you chose to represent the Republican party with your little spoiled suburbanite rant about the "poor people" and those who might be down on their luck, as I tend to think that I follow the Republican party's ideas and ways of thinking. However, the more I see people such as yourself representing the party, the more I start to look elsewhere for better representation.
Monkeybutt… spoiled suburbanite? lol
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Originally Posted by fastrt6dakota View Post
So... in closing, I really hope that you can look inside the empty void of yourself where a soul should be, and realize that just because you're well off and doing fine in these tough times, not everyone else is. I wish you all the luck of a laid off auto worker, including the repossession of your vehicles, removal of your benefits, foreclosure of your home, your family being hungry, and the overly stressful and difficult task of finding a job when there are 50,000 other people just like you trying to find the same jobs you're applying for. Good luck moving to another state when you don't have a vehicle to put what's left of your things in. Good luck borrowing from friends and family when they're in the same situations. Welcome to Michigan. Land of the Free, Home of the foreclosed.


Asshole...
They can’t repossess a vehicle that you don’t own money on.
I’m sure Monkeypoop sleeps fine at night.

What I’d like to know is when did owning a home become a right that everyone was entitled to, and not a goal that had to be worked towards and earned? The notion that a kid should be able to come out of college, get his first job, and immediately be able to buy a house is absurd. It used to be understood that most people would have to rent an apartment for at least a few years before being able to buy a house. Owning a house is not a right. Sorry.
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Old September 12th, 2008, 10:10 AM   #25
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A $687 mortgage is like a 95,000 home at 20 years? Or if you want to add on tax and insurance (which has nothing to do with the calculation) to that number you'll just have to settle for an ~80,000 home at 30 years.

I just bought a good house in a nice area for way less than $700 a month...
My house payment, including tax and insurance, is less than $650.

Sure it's not in the best part of town, but it's everything I need.
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Old September 12th, 2008, 10:10 AM   #26
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In hindsite, I may have come off a bit harsh... I hadn't had my coffee yet for the morning, so I was in full on grumpy mode. However, I won't retract the sentiment my post carried.

You really have to take "poor people" into a true definition. My definition of "poor people" constitutes someone who isn't making enough money to live comfortably, due to any number of circumstances. This can include people who either don't give a damn and would rather sit at home pumping out welfare batteries (children) than go out and do something productive, and to those people, I agree with what Monkeyevil said. However, my definition of "poor people" includes the recently laid off, especially those who live in Michigan and came from the auto industry. To those people, I feel their pain. I was laid off from an automotive supplier 2 years ago, and just as my unemployment benefits were about to expire, I got in touch with one of my old bosses at a different supplier who said he'd have a job for me. I was EXTREMELY lucky, but many others aren't so lucky. I can invision a different situation where I couldn't find a job, and it's not pretty.

A lot of the people I work with now aren't spending extra money, knowing that the axe could fall at any given moment. I know the situation is similar for many other people in the area, contributing to an already bad economy. While people might be making money still, I'd still consider them to be "poor people" because they aren't able to live the way they want to for the amount of income they are earning.

Hindsight is 20/20, so we can all look at the people who are in bad situations and point fingers, but if you would have told me 10 years ago that Ford would lay off 40% of it's workforce and be on the verge of bankrupcy, I would have laughed in your face. It's hard to predict what will happen next year, let alone 10 years from now, so to say that you're even remotely prepared is a bold faced lie. I know dozens of my former coworkers who had months or years worth of house, car, or other monthly payments saved in the bank "just in case" who are now wondering what they will do once the money runs out.

So anyways, yes... I agree that the welfare-society of "poor people" really needs to be examined, scrutinized, and reformed to eliminate the members who don't or won't contribute to the general population or are unwilling to at least make an effort to better themselves. However, coming from my personal background, I can't stand to see someone assume that all people who are in a state of poor living did so of their own accord. Not all "poor people" are lazy, and not all "rich people" are hard workers.

TLDR; Cliff's Notes: I drank my coffee, so now I'll elaborate in a nicer method. Read the friggin post.

EDIT: Dammit, if Bruce is on Monkeyevil's side, then he probably has a better grasp on reality than I originally thought. Please, from now on... use more words to describe the idea you're trying to get across, especially on a "rant post". It keeps people like me from looking like complete assholes, only your average run of the mill asshole.

Last edited by Medic8; September 12th, 2008 at 10:15 AM. Reason: I'm John McCain and I approve this message.
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Old September 12th, 2008, 10:12 AM   #27
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A $687 mortgage is like a 95,000 home at 20 years? Or if you want to add on tax and insurance (which has nothing to do with the calculation) to that number you'll just have to settle for an ~80,000 home at 30 years.

I just bought a good house in a nice area for way less than $700 a month...

1) Whats a "good" house in a "nice" area? Thats pretty subjective.


2) You have to add on tax and insurance, it is part of the price of a home!

Property taxes are no joke, I have a buddy in brownstown that has 6000 a year property tax - 500 a month! I think hes stoopid for buying a house with that much property tax, but it was his choice!
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Old September 12th, 2008, 10:13 AM   #28
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Monkeyevil…

monkeyboy...

Monkeybutt…

Monkeypoop...

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Old September 12th, 2008, 10:14 AM   #29
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My house payment, including tax and insurance, is less than $650.

Sure it's not in the best part of town, but it's everything I need.
Which reinforces my post. It may be all that you need now but it isn't in the nicest area. Would you raise kids there? Send your kids to school there? No.
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Old September 12th, 2008, 10:18 AM   #30
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*slurp* *slurp* live comfortably *slurp* *slurp* aren't able to live the way they want to for the amount of income they are earning.
That seems slightly ambiguous.
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Old September 12th, 2008, 10:32 AM   #31
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1) Whats a "good" house in a "nice" area? Thats pretty subjective.
An 1200 sq foot 1950's ranch with a 1200 sq foot unfinished basement. In a quiet area outside of town. Next to old people and 2.5 kid families.

Does it need work? Sure does (siding, windows, etc...) But it's in move in condition right now.

I'm excited because I waited till I'm almost 28 to live without roomates (not including my wife to be.)
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Old September 12th, 2008, 10:34 AM   #32
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meh

Living beyond your means is stoopid, take into consideration what if's before you make a major financial decision.
Questions you should ask yourself are things like:

Is this really necessary? ( do I need a Crewcab diesel truck, or will an extendedcab gasser suit me just fine)
Am I trying to keep up with the Jonses? (do you really give a shit if you have supernice things? Do you need that solid 60 and Walkerevans wheels or will an 8.8 suit your needs)


All in all everyone in the world knows what they want but do you know what you need?

sit back and take a look at life and ask yourself, is all of my nice shit why I am happy? Honestly I doubt very many people on here are happy at all. Do you wake up before your alarm and thank the good lord you are alive?


Americans are spoiled little babies. I know I have been here my whole freakin life

And in closing I will say yes I am poor I took a 50% pay cut from what I am used to living on. am I starving ? NO. Am I looking to buy a home still? Yes. Will I take advantage of the Misfortune of others ? Yes Does it make me a bad person ? NO

If people would learn to live within their means there would be no poor people.


P.S. How many credit cards do you have? They are the root of all evil in the USA.
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Old September 12th, 2008, 10:41 AM   #33
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EDIT: Dammit, if Bruce is on Monkeyevil's side, then he probably has a better grasp on reality than I originally thought. Please, from now on... use more words to describe the idea you're trying to get across, especially on a "rant post". It keeps people like me from looking like complete assholes, only your average run of the mill asshole.
It helps I know Daryl (monkeyevil) and know that he is far from "ultra-entitled" so I know where he's coming from.
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Old September 12th, 2008, 10:44 AM   #34
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I see Daryl's rant on Poor People as people that don't do sh!t and expect the government to take care of them. The ones that get pissed at people that work hard and make money and feel that it is unfair to them. People that sit on unemployement and bitch that they can't find work, when really it is they are just unwilling to work for anything less then what they made or think they should make.

The American way for so long has been to say "how much a month?". But not to stop and think, If I came across hard times could I afford to have this? Do I really need this?

It sucks that people are losing their jobs, but it has happened to many many people and everyone needs to pull up their big boy/girl pants and figure it out! Stop relying on the government to bail them out and stop bitching about your misfortune!
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Old September 12th, 2008, 10:45 AM   #35
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Dear ultra-entitled asshole,

Some of us "poor people" HAD great jobs that paid great money, and some of us were even sticking money into the bank rather than living paycheck to paycheck. Unfortunately, due to poor planning on just about everyone's part, some of those who were making decent money and not having any issues living, are no longer able to lead that lifestyle.

"Get another job"... there are 168 hours in a week. Assuming you don't sleep, eat, or go home, the average "go-getter" such as yourself should be able to work 4 - 40 hour jobs and still have 8 hours left over for travel time. With most decent jobs requiring at least a Bachelors degree, you can assume that if you find one (or maybe two) jobs working in your degree'd field, you can make upwards of $20/hour for those jobs. The other two, we can just assume you're willing to make $8.25 working at your local Home Depot or Kroger, since you won't find another decent paying job that will let you work off-hours. Don't worry about your family... they'll understand, and they know you'll see them again in 30 years when your mortgage is paid off.

For the rest of the normal people, let's take your average Ford engineer. They had to spend at least 4 years getting to a Bachelors degree in a fairly specialized field, usually Electrical or Mechanical Engineering. Let's just forget about the student loans they probably racked up in the process of getting that degree. We'll move on to salary; I'll pick a low number, since you mentioned "take home pay". Let's say your average engineer takes home $50,000 per year. That's roughly a $30/hr payrate, minus taxes and benefits. So if their mortgage should be 25% of their take home pay rate, you're now talking $12,500. I really hope what you're trying to say is that if they get $50k a year in pay, they should be paying $12.5k a year in mortgage. It really comes across that you're trying to say they should only buy a house that cost $12,500, which is just plain idiotic.

I, for example, happen to love America. Here in the good ole US of A, we have the right to spout the drooling, moronic, clueless bits of misinformation that your post has just exhibited, and we can do so without fear of persecution. I'm sadly disappointed that you chose to represent the Republican party with your little spoiled suburbanite rant about the "poor people" and those who might be down on their luck, as I tend to think that I follow the Republican party's ideas and ways of thinking. However, the more I see people such as yourself representing the party, the more I start to look elsewhere for better representation.

So... in closing, I really hope that you can look inside the empty void of yourself where a soul should be, and realize that just because you're well off and doing fine in these tough times, not everyone else is. I wish you all the luck of a laid off auto worker, including the repossession of your vehicles, removal of your benefits, foreclosure of your home, your family being hungry, and the overly stressful and difficult task of finding a job when there are 50,000 other people just like you trying to find the same jobs you're applying for. Good luck moving to another state when you don't have a vehicle to put what's left of your things in. Good luck borrowing from friends and family when they're in the same situations. Welcome to Michigan. Land of the Free, Home of the foreclosed.


Asshole...
Thank God my parents didn't have this mentality! My dad waited till he had enough money for a decent down payment on a home and bought within his means. He then would make double mortgage payments to get out of debt as soon as possible. On the side of his regular job (which didn't pay much at all), he bought and fixed up cars for extra money. He realized that the only person responsible for himself and his family was him!!! He was a great example to me about how to spend and save my money.

You are not entitled to any help, everyone has hard times of their own. Smart people just find solutions and make sacrifices to become sucessful or at least make ends meet.

Guess what man... There's only one person responsible for your life. Its you!!
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Old September 12th, 2008, 10:46 AM   #36
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To Daryl's points:
Quote:
If you need more money, get a better or another job. You are not entitled to the money that most of the upper class worked hard to get... even if they don't "need it."
Agreed. It's those with disposable income to invest that create jobs - this country is not, and never has been about redistribution of wealth. If you don't educate yourself/develop a marketable skill, exhibit a good work ethic, and aren't willing to change jobs/careers/locations as necessary, then it's not up to the rest of us to finance your life. Sacrifices up to and including moving to another city, county, state, or region may be required, as well as time and effort to learn a marketable skill. As I've said before, if your job can be taught to an 18 year-old kid inside of week, expect to be replaced by one making $6/hour either here or .$0.25 an hour overseas.


Quote:
Dear middle class,
Stop buying houses that you can't afford. 25% of your take home pay is what your mortgage should be.
Unskilled laborers building $300K+ houses is not sustainable (as we're now seeing). All too often, I've seen "middle class" equated to a new $300K house, a couple of newer $25-35K vehicles, cabin/cottage up north, boats, bikes, etc... - which is more like a professional/doctor lifestyle than unskilled labor. And when the bill comes due in the form of ARMs adjusting (like they told them would happen) or overtime elimination, they cry "victim"... A friend of my wife explained then when a democrat gets into the White House, the UAW contract will improve, health care co-pays will go away, and overtime will return because somehow, Dubya was personally behind and overseeing the UAW contract negotiations. Whoa.
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Old September 12th, 2008, 10:48 AM   #37
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You really have to take "poor people" into a true definition. My definition of "poor people" constitutes someone who isn't making enough money to live comfortably, due to any number of circumstances.
My definition of poor people is people who can't eat or have a place to lay their head.

"comfort" is an American luxury that we take for granted.
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Old September 12th, 2008, 10:53 AM   #38
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Which reinforces my post. It may be all that you need now but it isn't in the nicest area. Would you raise kids there? Send your kids to school there? No.
The point is that I don't expect my middle class income should entite me to live in the nicest part of town. No, the schools may not be the best, but if my kids lived with me I wouldn't have a problem sending them there. I am fortunate in that my kids live in thier mothers house where the schools are better.
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Old September 12th, 2008, 10:55 AM   #39
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My definition of poor people is people who can't eat or have a place to lay their head.

"comfort" is an American luxury that we take for granted.
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Old September 12th, 2008, 10:55 AM   #40
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I see Daryl's rant on Poor People as people that don't do sh!t and expect the government to take care of them. The ones that get pissed at people that work hard and make money and feel that it is unfair to them. People that sit on unemployement and bitch that they can't find work, when really it is they are just unwilling to work for anything less then what they made or think they should make.

The American way for so long has been to say "how much a month?". But not to stop and think, If I came across hard times could I afford to have this? Do I really need this?

It sucks that people are losing their jobs, but it has happened to many many people and everyone needs to pull up their big boy/girl pants and figure it out! Stop relying on the government to bail them out and stop bitching about your misfortune!
My thoughts exactly.

"Poor people" need to quit feeling sorry for themselves milking the system and then, "just as my unemployment benefits were about to expire", finding a new job. Go out and get a grunt job. Oh, I forgot, you are too good for that. Some of those jobs, although require much labor, or are dirty, pay pretty damn good.
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