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Old September 11th, 2008, 06:59 PM   #1
mikesova
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Default Sleazy Michigan Republican Tactics...you'll love this!

http://www.michiganmessenger.com/407...lose-your-vote

Quote:
Michigan Republicans plan to foreclose African American voters

The chairman of the Republican Party in Macomb County Michigan, a key swing county in a key swing state, is planning to use a list of foreclosed homes to block people from voting in the upcoming election as part of the state GOP’s effort to challenge some voters on Election Day.

“We will have a list of foreclosed homes and will make sure people aren’t voting from those addresses,” party chairman James Carabelli told Michigan Messenger in a telephone interview earlier this week. He said the local party wanted to make sure that proper electoral procedures were followed.

State election rules allow parties to assign “election challengers” to polls to monitor the election. In addition to observing the poll workers, these volunteers can challenge the eligibility of any voter provided they “have a good reason to believe” that the person is not eligible to vote. One allowable reason is that the person is not a “true resident of the city or township.”

The Michigan Republicans’ planned use of foreclosure lists is apparently an attempt to challenge ineligible voters as not being “true residents.”

One expert questioned the legality of the tactic.

“You can’t challenge people without a factual basis for doing so,” said J. Gerald Hebert, a former voting rights litigator for the U.S. Justice Department who now runs the Campaign Legal Center, a Washington D.C.-based public-interest law firm. “I don’t think a foreclosure notice is sufficient basis for a challenge, because people often remain in their homes after foreclosure begins and sometimes are able to negotiate and refinance.”

As for the practice of challenging the right to vote of foreclosed property owners, Hebert called it, “mean-spirited.”

GOP ties to state’s largest foreclosure law firm

The Macomb GOP’s plans are another indication of how John McCain’s campaign stands to benefit from the burgeoning number of foreclosures in the state. McCain’s regional headquarters are housed in the office building of foreclosure specialists Trott & Trott. The firm’s founder, David A. Trott, has raised between $100,000 and $250,000 for the Republican nominee.

The Macomb County party’s plans to challenge voters who have defaulted on their house payments is likely to disproportionately affect African-Americans who are overwhelmingly Democratic voters. More than 60 percent of all sub-prime loans — the most likely kind of loan to go into default — were made to African-Americans in Michigan, according to a report issued last year by the state’s Department of Labor and Economic Growth.

Challenges to would-be voters

Statewide, the Republican Party is gearing up for a comprehensive voter challenge campaign, according to Denise Graves, party chair for Republicans in Genessee County, which encompasses Flint. The party is creating a spreadsheet of election challenger volunteers and expects to coordinate a training with the regional McCain campaign, Graves said in an interview with Michigan Messenger.

Whether the Republicans will challenge voters with foreclosed homes elsewhere in the state is not known.

Kelly Harrigan, deputy director of the GOP’s voter programs, confirmed that she is coordinating the group’s “election integrity” program. Harrigan said the effort includes putting in place a legal team, as well as training election challengers. She said the challenges to voters were procedural rather than personal. She referred inquiries about the vote challenge program to communications director Bill Nowling who promised information but did not return calls.

Party chairman Carabelli said that the Republican Party is training election challengers to “make sure that [voters] are who they say who they are.”

When asked for further details on how Republicans are compiling challenge lists, he said, “I would rather not tell you all the things we are doing.”

Vote suppression: Not an isolated effort

Carabelli is not the only Republican Party official to suggest the targeting of foreclosed voters. In Ohio, Doug Preisse, director of elections in Franklin County (around the city of Columbus) and the chair of the local GOP, told The Columbus Dispatch that he has not ruled out challenging voters before the election due to foreclosure-related address issues.

Hebert, the voting-rights lawyer, sees a connection between Priesse’s remarks and Carabelli’s plans.

“At a minimum what you are seeing is a fairly comprehensive effort by the Republican Party, a systematic broad-based effort to put up obstacles for people to vote,” he said. “Nobody is contending that these people are not legally registered to vote.

“When you are comprehensively challenging people to vote,” Hebert went on, “your goals are two-fold: One is you are trying to knock people out from casting ballots; the other is to create a slowdown that will discourage others,” who see a long line and realize they can’t afford to stay and wait.

Challenging all voters registered to foreclosed homes could disrupt some polling places, especially in the Detroit metropolitan area. According to the real estate Web site RealtyTrac, one in every 176 households in Wayne County, metropolitan Detroit, received a foreclosure filing during the month of July. In Macomb County, the figure was one household in every 285, meaning that 1,834 homeowners received the bad news in just one month. The Macomb County foreclosure rate puts it in the top three percent of all U.S. counties in the number of distressed homeowners.

Wayne, Oakland, Macomb, Kent and Genessee counties were — in that order — the counties with the most homeowners facing foreclosure, according to RealtyTrac. As of July, there were more than 62,000 foreclosure filings in the entire state.

Joe Rozell, director of elections for Oakland County in suburban Detroit, acknowledged that challenges such as those described by Carabelli are allowed by law but said they have the potential to create long lines and disrupt the voting process. With 890,000 potential voters closely divided between Democratic and Republican, Oakland County is a key swing county of this swing state.

According to voter challenge directives handed down by Republican Secretary of State Terri Lynn Land, voter challenges need only be “based on information obtained through a reliable source or means.”

“But poll workers are not allowed to ask the reason” for the challenges, Rozell said. In other words, Republican vote challengers are free to use foreclosure lists as a basis for disqualifying otherwise eligible voters.

David Lagstein, head organizer with the Michigan Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN), described the plans of the Macomb GOP as “crazy.”

“You would think they would think, ‘This is going to look too heartless,’” said Lagstein, whose group has registered 200,000 new voters statewide this year and also runs a foreclosure avoidance program. “The Republican-led state Senate has not moved on the anti-predatory lending bill for over a year and yet [Republicans] have time to prey on those who have fallen victim to foreclosure to suppress the vote.”
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Old September 11th, 2008, 08:19 PM   #2
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How about the voters follow the law of the land? To me your sense of right/wrong is ass backward. So what you are saying is the voters should be allowed to vote illegally? Guess what, Mike? If you aren't a resident of the city/township you are trying to vote in it is ILLEGAL and your vote doesn't count. To me, the scumbags who can't follow the law are the "sleazy" ones.
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Old September 11th, 2008, 08:21 PM   #3
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I am so fucking sick and tired of people that are in a foreclosure being referred to as "victims". Just because you are stupid, buy a house beyond your means, and legally sign a contract for an adjustable rate mortgage that shoots up astronomically, just as they said it could, you do NOT qualify as a victim. It qualifies you as the recipient of the consequences for betting that mortgage rates would stay calm, your house value would go up 10% per year like all the super-trustworthy realtors said they would, and the economy not going into the shitter.
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Old September 11th, 2008, 08:34 PM   #4
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None of the quotes say anything about African Americans only the sub title by the articals author. This artical is just more political horseshit!

I have 3 political views;

1. Only land owners should be allowed to vote!

b. You can't believe any of the shit you read on the net.

3) Burn all the Extremist

Have a GREAT DAY!!!

Last edited by pappa-g; September 11th, 2008 at 08:45 PM. Reason: added information
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Old September 11th, 2008, 08:49 PM   #5
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Ahhhhh, playing the 'ol race card.

Yep, typical Michigan political BS, where everything is racially motivated.
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Old September 11th, 2008, 09:04 PM   #6
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Heaven forbid that we should try to enforce some laws.
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Old September 11th, 2008, 09:13 PM   #7
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Wow, that would be bad to have a person vote in one county( where their forclosed house is) then vote again in the county / township where there new apartment is... yea that would suck not allowing someone to do that......
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Old September 11th, 2008, 09:17 PM   #8
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What's next- denying votes from the deceased?
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Old September 11th, 2008, 09:21 PM   #9
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since when do you have to own land to vote? Is there also a poll tax too? how about written tests to be taken before you vote?

If your house is being forclosed on, but you are still living there, what address are you supposed to use? I don't own any property and I can vote, is that wrong?
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Old September 11th, 2008, 09:30 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesova View Post
since when do you have to own land to vote? Is there also a poll tax too? how about written tests to be taken before you vote?

If your house is being forclosed on, but you are still living there, what address are you supposed to use? I don't own any property and I can vote, is that wrong?
You automatically assume the worst because it is the Republican party. What they are trying to do is stop people from voting ILLEGALLY. Why do you instantly believe that the big, bad Republicans are trying to keep Obama voters from voting. You libs are fucking paranoid.
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Old September 11th, 2008, 09:34 PM   #11
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BTW they dropped that plan in favor of this one:

Quote:
Republicans recant plans to foreclose voters but admit other strategies
By Eartha Jane Melzer 9/11/08 3:41 PM

The Macomb County Republican Party chair who told Michigan Messenger earlier this week that Republicans planned to challenge voters at the polls using a list of foreclosed homes has changed his story.

James Carabelli now says the party has “no plans to do anything,” according to a story in the Macomb Daily.

Reports of the plan for foreclosure-based challenges have spurred outrage and the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) planned a demonstration today at the Macomb County Republican headquarters.

Eric Doster is former counsel for the Michigan Republican Party and a lawyer who plans to represent GOP election challengers on Election Day.

Doster returned a call Wednesday afternoon and in a 30-minute conversation told Michigan Messenger that while he is unfamiliar with plans to use foreclosure lists to challenge voters, he does expect party volunteers to challenge voters in other ways.

When asked whether Michigan Republicans plan to create a challenge list based on returned direct mail, a practice known as “vote caging,” Doster replied, “I think so. I know this has been done in years past … both parties may be doing this.”

Doster said that the party’s deputy political director, Kelly Harrigan, would have more information about the challenge lists. Harrigan did not respond to a call from Michigan Messenger.

“Voter caging” is controversial because it can be used to target certain groups of voters. Some say that a piece of returned mail should not be enough to challenge a person’s claim of residency.

Last week Ohio Secretary of State Jennifer Brunner acknowledged that the use of mail for vote caging has disproportionately affected poor and minority communities and she instructed that returned mail should not be considered reasonable evidence that someone has moved.
From the same liberal commie web site that claims to be a "Center for Independent Media"

http://www.michiganmessenger.com/423...her-strategies
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Old September 11th, 2008, 09:48 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cornfed View Post
What's next- denying votes from the deceased?
What! Those sleazy rebublicans!
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Old September 12th, 2008, 08:16 AM   #13
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Why should you be a landowner to vote? Well, I'll tell you my trailer-park friend. When any milage comes up for schools, roads whatever its not the apartment owner or the ya-hoo in the trailer that pays for it. Its the land owner who pays with thier property tax. So why should someone who is not going to foot the bill have any say on if and how its done??? And you should have to speak english to allowed to vote.
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Old September 12th, 2008, 11:03 AM   #14
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I have no problem stopping people from voting illegally.

Voting should be legal and above board.

What I see as the problem with the foreclosure lists (even thought the GOP says they will no longer use them) is that a foreclosure proceeding does not indicate beyond a shadow of a doubt the residency has changed. As mentioned in the article there are different stages of foreclosure and deals can be made before someone is evicted. Can someone tell me what happens when a vote is challenged? Does it count that day? How long until the challenge is determined? Can enough challenges tie up enough votes to affect an election outcome unless there is a recount?
Maybe use Eviction notice lists instead. That would be indicative of non residency, at least at that address.

Another thing I find disturbing is that the GOP seemed to easily change thier plans when those plans became public. That should make people go mmmmmmmm.

Only property owners can vote? Wow, talk about setting this country back hundreds of years (not sure exactly when that changed). Not all non property owners are worthless white trash trailer park scum, or ghetto dwelling thugs. Have you ever heard of "luxury apartments"? It is true that property taxes are not paid out directly by people that do not own thier own homes, but there are property taxes paid on the land the apartment or trailer park sits on. So, in an indirect way, the money is being paid out. And what does school millages have to do with national elections anyway? (yes, I know they are all part of the big scheme, I am talking about the right to vote)
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Old September 12th, 2008, 11:32 AM   #15
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Hell, I'll bet they even want to stop illegal aliens from voting! Bastards!
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Old September 12th, 2008, 11:50 AM   #16
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"Reports of the plan for foreclosure-based challenges have spurred outrage and the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) planned a demonstration today at the Macomb County Republican headquarters."

Interesting that ACORN was where Sen. Obama worked when he was a "community organizer".

Here's a nice article explaining the basis of "community organizing".....

http://www.spectator.co.uk/melanieph...lieve-in.thtml

This is my favorite part....

The seditious role of the community organiser was developed by an extreme left intellectual called Saul Alinsky. He was a radical Chicago activist who, by the time he died in 1972, had had a profound influence on the highest levels of the Democratic party. Alinsky was a ‘transformational Marxist’ in the mould of Antonio Gramsci, who promoted the strategy of a ‘long march through the institutions’ by capturing the culture and turning it inside out as the most effective means of overturning western society. In similar vein, Alinsky condemned the New Left for alienating the general public by its demonstrations and outlandish appearance. The revolution had to be carried out through stealth and deception. Its proponents had to cultivate an image of centrism and pragmatism. A master of infiltration, Alinsky wooed Chicago mobsters and Wall Street financiers alike. And successive Democratic politicians fell under his spell.

His creed was set out in his book ‘Rules for Radicals’ – a book he dedicated to Lucifer, whom he called the ‘first radical’. It was Alinsky for whom ‘change’ was his mantra. And by ‘change’, he meant a Marxist revolution achieved by slow, incremental, Machiavellian means which turned society inside out. This had to be done through systematic deception, winning the trust of the naively idealistic middle class by using the language of morality to conceal an agenda designed to destroy it. And the way to do this, he said, was through ‘people’s organisations’.



I know for a fact that Michelle Obama quoted the "Rules for Radicals" in her stump speech.

There is more to this story.
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Old September 12th, 2008, 12:29 PM   #17
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I am not familiar with Alinsky, but at first glance it seems that what you quote (an opinion column from a British periodical) may not be the whole story.

Seems Alinsky's attitude toward organizing and helping to better conditions in the Chicago stock yards could be looked at as a Marxists way, but aren't there people who say that about any effort to organize or unionize people?


I think this may be as fair of a look at his dedication as any other (from Wikipedia), Plus this quote includes all of the Lucifer reference instead of just a clip. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saul_Alinsky
Quote:
Saul Alinsky shows his dark, mischievous sense of humor in his dedication to his own book, Rules for Radicals: "Lest we forget at least an over-the-shoulder acknowledgment to the very first radical: from all our legends, mythology, and history (and who is to know where mythology leaves off and history begins -- or which is which), the first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom -- Lucifer."
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Old September 12th, 2008, 02:28 PM   #18
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And where does "wikipedia" get thier information?

See my rule b. earlier in this thread.

have a GREAT day ;)
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Old September 12th, 2008, 03:08 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pappa-g View Post
Why should you be a landowner to vote? Well, I'll tell you my trailer-park friend. When any milage comes up for schools, roads whatever its not the apartment owner or the ya-hoo in the trailer that pays for it. Its the land owner who pays with thier property tax. So why should someone who is not going to foot the bill have any say on if and how its done???
You do understand that renters pay for increases in property taxes just like anybody else does through increases in their rents and fees, right?

If the rents are not being increased while property taxes are, then there are two scenarios that I can think of a) Either the landlord is making enough profit that he doesn't care about raising the rent/fees of those already on his property to cover the increae and will just pass it off new residents or b) The landlord loses his property and goes out of business because he was an idiot for not raising the rents/fees.
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Old September 12th, 2008, 04:18 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pappa-g View Post
None of the quotes say anything about African Americans only the sub title by the articals author. This artical is just more political horseshit!

I have 3 political views;

1. Only land owners should be allowed to vote!

b. You can't believe any of the shit you read on the net.

3) Burn all the Extremist

Have a GREAT DAY!!!
1, b, 3.....is that new numbers?
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