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Old September 10th, 2008, 03:04 PM   #21
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But you're worried about Palin's husband twice checking the "AIP" box for "party affiliation" and attending one convention 10 years Ago?
ouch.

I felt that one from here.
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Old September 10th, 2008, 03:04 PM   #22
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I'm not disagreeing. But with John McCain, you know what you're getting. He has grown into the politician that he currently is and people for the most part know what he satnds for.
True, very true, and I am sure he will stay the way he is and not sway under outside influence.

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With Obama, his political career has just started and no one really knows what he will act like. We have no basis to understand how he will act, so we need to look at the people who influence him.
I think there is plenty in his history to know how he will act. He may have had a direction in his career, but he has done good things on the local level before moving up in the political heirarchy.

But, can't we say the same about Palin now?
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Old September 10th, 2008, 03:10 PM   #23
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But you're worried about Palin's husband twice checking the "AIP" box for "party affiliation" and attending one convention 10 years Ago?

Since it has not been discussed much, yes.

When the Wright controversy came about there was plenty of discussion. There is more information available about context and history if people want to search further. Beyond the spin from either side. There is enough information where someone can research and come to thier own conclusions.

Anything about Palin, her political history and her personal life is new. Therefore there are questions, plenty of them. And there have been very few answers. AIP, how strongly did the husband support the goals? How much influence does the husband have in her politics? Do you have the answers yet?

Bruce, I would assume a husband might have more influence that a preacher, in most cases.

We just don't know yet. And I am dissapointed that so many do not see this.

Once answers are given, even I may change my mind about Palin. (not about Republicans winning, just about her)
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Old September 10th, 2008, 03:24 PM   #24
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I sat in church for many years. I took some teachings with me, it was bound to happen. But there are a lot of things I heard there that I can not support at all. My priest is a rebel still, he has supported my wifes visits to shut-ins as a JW. Damn traitor priest. And, of course, since I was raised in a catholic church, I must be a Muslim as well.

I am not a fan of Wright, in fact I don't personally care about him at all. But is he really a major influence on Obama, more than just the good faith part and the good marriage part of his teachings? I am sure Wright wasn't yelling "God Damn America" (mmmm, just what was the context?) at every single sermon.
How do you know how much influence he had on Obama? Are you willing to take that risk? Woud you say the same thing if a candidate came from the Westboro Baptist Church... another hate mongering church?

Dude, you haven't followed this guy very closely have you?

Here are just a few of his insane rants:

“The government lied about Pearl Harbor too. They knew the Japanese were going to attack. Governments lie. The government lied about the Gulf of Tonkin. They wanted that resolution to get us in the Vietnam War. Governments lie. The government lied about Nelson Mandela and our CIA helped put him in prison and keep him there for 27 years. The South African government lied on Nelson Mandela. Governments lie. The government lied about the Tuskegee experiment. They purposely infected African American men with syphilis. Governments lie. The government lied about bombing Cambodia and Richard Nixon stood in front of the camera, ‘Let me make myself perfectly clear…’ Governments lie. The government lied about the drugs for arms Contra scheme orchestrated by Oliver North, and then the government pardoned all the perpetrators so they could get better jobs in the government. Governments lie.... The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color. Governments lie. The government lied about a connection between Al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein and a connection between 9.11.01 and Operation Iraqi Freedom. Governments lie.”


He said that the US is to blame for 9/11.

He has said that "white" Christianity is wrong and that only "Black" Christianity is right.

In a 2003 sermon, he said blacks should condemn the United States: "The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, God damn America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people. God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme."
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Old September 11th, 2008, 06:36 PM   #25
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psst. you're an idiot. Don't convolude the issue. I'm talking about Jeremiah Wright, not Obama or McCain.

However, Jeremiah Wright was Obama's "spiritual mentor". He advised Obama for 10 years on spiritual and moral issues... kinda worries me. Not only that, he hates whites and America, but thats another issue. McCain hasn't really tied himself to a mentor or else we would all be scrutinizing that person as well.

If Billy Graham or Franklin Graham who were the spiritual mentors of Reagan, Bush, etc had an affair, it would be the end of their career and a public outrage and it would call question on the spiritual advice they had given. You must be above and beyond reproach in a spiritual role.
anybody else think that this argument holds any water?
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Old September 11th, 2008, 08:29 PM   #26
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anybody else think that this argument holds any water?
Too the extent that if your "spiritual mentor" turns out to be a USA hating, wife cheating, piece of shit hypocrite it reflects badly on you. Yes, that holds water.
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Old September 11th, 2008, 08:44 PM   #27
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With Obama, his political career has just started and no one really knows what he will act like. We have no basis to understand how he will act, so we need to look at the people who influence him.
McCain's pretty much an open book, a known quantity. I know where he stands.

What scares me about Obama is that, like the Clintons, he doesn't stand for anything, except whatever will give him the best poll numbers next time. And like John Kerry, Bill, and Hillary Clinton his entire adult life has been developing the political capital to run for high office - professional politician. He never held a real job ("Community organizer" = token job that's actually preparation for political office).

Basically, a smarter, more astute and polished version of Kwame Kilpatrick.
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Old September 12th, 2008, 10:22 AM   #28
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How do you know how much influence he had on Obama? Are you willing to take that risk? Woud you say the same thing if a candidate came from the Westboro Baptist Church... another hate mongering church?

Dude, you haven't followed this guy very closely have you?

Here are just a few of his insane rants:

“The government lied about Pearl Harbor too. They knew the Japanese were going to attack. Governments lie. The government lied about the Gulf of Tonkin. They wanted that resolution to get us in the Vietnam War. Governments lie. The government lied about Nelson Mandela and our CIA helped put him in prison and keep him there for 27 years. The South African government lied on Nelson Mandela. Governments lie. The government lied about the Tuskegee experiment. They purposely infected African American men with syphilis. Governments lie. The government lied about bombing Cambodia and Richard Nixon stood in front of the camera, ‘Let me make myself perfectly clear…’ Governments lie. The government lied about the drugs for arms Contra scheme orchestrated by Oliver North, and then the government pardoned all the perpetrators so they could get better jobs in the government. Governments lie.... The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color. Governments lie. The government lied about a connection between Al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein and a connection between 9.11.01 and Operation Iraqi Freedom. Governments lie.”


He said that the US is to blame for 9/11.

He has said that "white" Christianity is wrong and that only "Black" Christianity is right.

In a 2003 sermon, he said blacks should condemn the United States: "The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, God damn America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people. God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme."
Careful now. Many of the Republican politicians we all know and some love hang out with Jerry Falwell. Have you listened to him lately?

I am not arguing to what they say, but how they influence and what ideals people take from them.

Sorry, I may be wrong here, but I have not seen any evidence yet that Obama has taken any of the negative hatred from Wright to heart. You would think there would be some kind of evidence somewhere if he had.

Oh, and some of the rants you quote above? Guess what, he was right on some of them. Bombing of Cambodia, Ollie North and the Contra's,
Tuskegee and, more recently, by many accounts, Hussein/Al-Queda. These are just the ones I can comment on from memory. He is probably not far off on some of the others either.

And Dude, have you ever heard of David Duke?


p.s. I do not condone or support Jeremiah Wright, or anyone who takes the pulpit and preaches fire and brimstone, regardless what form it takes.
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Old September 12th, 2008, 10:57 AM   #29
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I agree that David Duke is an idiot - however, nobody claimed him as their "spiritual mentor" nor wrote a book title after one of his quotes.

The Wright thing, choosing Biden (c'mon, anybody defend that choice), drug use explained off as angst over his racial identity - all signs of poor judgement. He is undoubtedly charismatic, reads teleprompters well, and has a good, idealistic, and compelling message of non-specific "change" - but that's it. Again, "empty suit".
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Old September 12th, 2008, 11:19 AM   #30
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Careful now. Many of the Republican politicians we all know and some love hang out with Jerry Falwell. Have you listened to him lately?

I am not arguing to what they say, but how they influence and what ideals people take from them.

Sorry, I may be wrong here, but I have not seen any evidence yet that Obama has taken any of the negative hatred from Wright to heart. You would think there would be some kind of evidence somewhere if he had.

Oh, and some of the rants you quote above? Guess what, he was right on some of them. Bombing of Cambodia, Ollie North and the Contra's,
Tuskegee and, more recently, by many accounts, Hussein/Al-Queda. These are just the ones I can comment on from memory. He is probably not far off on some of the others either.

And Dude, have you ever heard of David Duke?


p.s. I do not condone or support Jeremiah Wright, or anyone who takes the pulpit and preaches fire and brimstone, regardless what form it takes.
I agree with you here. People need to be very careful who they associate themselves with ESPECIALLY in a mentor role. Republicans can certainly be just as guilty.

Some of his rants are true, but as we know, every lie has a little bit of truth... thats what makes it believable.

Jeremiah Wright just scares me more than the rest because of his intimacy with Obama. Especially his racial beliefs, because that will start a firestorm if we find out later that Obama shares them.
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Old September 12th, 2008, 11:21 AM   #31
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Careful now. Many of the Republican politicians we all know and some love hang out with Jerry Falwell. Have you listened to him lately?
This is also the reason I mentioned Billy Graham. I think many people would agree that he has been above and beyond reproach in his actions. He was also an amazing spiritual advisor to many of our presidents.

There is no controversy around a good moral man.
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Old September 12th, 2008, 12:46 PM   #32
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I agree that David Duke is an idiot - however, nobody claimed him as their "spiritual mentor" nor wrote a book title after one of his quotes.

The Wright thing, choosing Biden (c'mon, anybody defend that choice), drug use explained off as angst over his racial identity - all signs of poor judgement. He is undoubtedly charismatic, reads teleprompters well, and has a good, idealistic, and compelling message of non-specific "change" - but that's it. Again, "empty suit".


Get ready to yell at me Duffy, I know you will want to

McCain:

Keating 5, decades in congress and NOW says he can be different than what he supported all that time, Choosing Palin (c'mon, anybody defend that choice considering what this country is facing?), infidelity explained off as......what exactly - All signs of poor judgement. He is undoubtedly a good guy, speaks better off the cuff, and has a good, idealistic, and compelling message of non-specific "Johnny Come Lately Change", but that's it. Again, "empty suit"

I don't think either side has done enough to say what they will do. Lately it has just been ad after ad of smear politics. (IMO more from the right than the left)
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Old September 12th, 2008, 01:40 PM   #33
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Get ready to yell at me Duffy, I know you will want to

McCain:

Keating 5, decades in congress and NOW says he can be different than what he supported all that time, Choosing Palin (c'mon, anybody defend that choice considering what this country is facing?), infidelity explained off as......what exactly - All signs of poor judgement. He is undoubtedly a good guy, speaks better off the cuff, and has a good, idealistic, and compelling message of non-specific "Johnny Come Lately Change", but that's it. Again, "empty suit"

I don't think either side has done enough to say what they will do. Lately it has just been ad after ad of smear politics. (IMO more from the right than the left)
Siding with someone who says stuff like God Damn America and calling that person your spiritual mentor is pretty extreme. Comparing to two people in politics supporting each other is a tad different. I don't think Keating or McCain would even associate themselves with anyone that says shit like Wright.

Obama, a man who has been seen several times not placing his hand over his heart during the National Anthem vs. a man who spent 5 years in a POW camp and refused to be released for propaganda purposes. I think I know where my vote lies.

I've been a firm believer that if you're going to run this country, your ass should've served in the military.
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