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Old September 11th, 2008, 12:05 PM   #61
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Right, like Obama/Biden suggesting segregation (dividing the country by race and religion) in Iraq as solution.
I'm all for that idea. Would that not work?
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Old September 11th, 2008, 12:08 PM   #62
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If the McCain-Palin camp would have left lipstick alone, it would have been worth more.

Palin seems to be "America's Girl". When the Dems cast aspersions it backfires. Like they are badmouthing our Mother/Daughter/Sister.
She can totally blow it by coming off high and mighty in the interviews. But that is not her style.

On the issues Obama is just wrong. And she keeps him off his game because he knows she can do the job. Better.
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Old September 11th, 2008, 01:03 PM   #63
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Palin seems to be "America's Girl". When the Dems cast aspersions it backfires. Like they are badmouthing our Mother/Daughter/Sister.
She can totally blow it by coming off high and mighty in the interviews. But that is not her style.
We don't really know what her interview style is yet as VP... She has been made unavailable for interviews since she was announced as the candidate (besides a fluff piece she did with People Magazine). She has even been shielded from answer questions at rallys from voters and/or the local press.

Her first interview as VP candidate with an actual news source will not occur until tonight and tomorrow with (I believe) Brian Williams from NBC.

Who knows, she may come off as a total b1thc when she is interviewed as the VP candidate.
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Old September 11th, 2008, 01:26 PM   #64
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We don't really know what her interview style is yet as VP... She has been made unavailable for interviews since she was announced as the candidate (besides a fluff piece she did with People Magazine). She has even been shielded from answer questions at rallys from voters and/or the local press.

Her first interview as VP candidate with an actual news source will not occur until tonight and tomorrow with (I believe) Brian Williams from NBC.

Who knows, she may come off as a total b1thc when she is interviewed as the VP candidate.
Everything will start AFTER 9/11. It's part of the republican fuckedup strategy.
They can lose, but they will have to work at it.
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Old September 11th, 2008, 01:31 PM   #65
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I think both sides have handled it poorly.

Obama should have realized before he said it that it would have been controversial and that people would think that it was directed at Palin and just not said it.

The McCain/Palin camp should have made a statement to the effect of “We know Obama didn’t mean it to be an offensive insult to Ms. Palin. It was just another example of Obama’s careless use of word’s “

And Obama, upon hearing that McCain/Palin were making an issue of it should have simply stated “Were sorry that Ms. Palin felt that this common metaphor was somehow directed at her. It was not intended that way.”
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Old September 11th, 2008, 01:45 PM   #66
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I'm all for that idea. Would that not work?
No.

First, youd have endless debate on where the new boarders would be drawn, with each side trying to get the prime real estate.

Then, there would be more debate on who in each group would rule.

Then, there would be a mass relocation of people, with some not wanting to move, and lots of complaining about how the new place they were forced to live was not as good as the place they were forced to leave. Some would refuse to move. They would then face discrimination from the new ruling group.

Eventually one of these new nations would become more powerful than the others and probably try to re-unite the nation, by force if necessary, and wed be right back where we started.
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Old September 11th, 2008, 02:04 PM   #67
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You are both very correct. This is why "spin" is such a popular tool. The facts don't matter once the seed is planted.

Had the TV on in my workroom last night while tearing my Chain saw apart and there was a segment about the "lipstick" remark. MSNBC, and I think it was Olberman (yea I know, he supports Obama, but he did not make this up). They played 4 or 5 clips, audio and video of McCain using the same expression in public venues. Late last year he used the comment when discussing Hillary Clintons health planned and how it compared to her and Bill's plan back in the early 90's. So, yes, he has used it while running for president.

If he had said pitbull instead of pig, then there would be no doubt.

They need to get to the issues. Not much time left.
If you have seen the video of his speech, after he says the line, he pauses, then the crowd laughs and the applause is pretty loud.

"Put lipstick on a pig..." is not a joke, it's a metaphor and an old cliche. Not something that you say in a speech and expect great applause. But he paused after he said it... almost waiting for it.
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Old September 11th, 2008, 02:07 PM   #68
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Meh.

Methinks you're reading into it too much.

All of the candidates awkwardly pause after virtually line they say.
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Old September 11th, 2008, 02:10 PM   #69
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No.

First, youd have endless debate on where the new boarders would be drawn, with each side trying to get the prime real estate.

Then, there would be more debate on who in each group would rule.

Then, there would be a mass relocation of people, with some not wanting to move, and lots of complaining about how the new place they were forced to live was not as good as the place they were forced to leave. Some would refuse to move. They would then face discrimination from the new ruling group.

Eventually one of these new nations would become more powerful than the others and probably try to re-unite the nation, by force if necessary, and wed be right back where we started.


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Old September 11th, 2008, 02:14 PM   #70
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If you have seen the video of his speech, after he says the line, he pauses, then the crowd laughs and the applause is pretty loud.

"Put lipstick on a pig..." is not a joke, it's a metaphor and an old cliche. Not something that you say in a speech and expect great applause. But he paused after he said it... almost waiting for it.

And then he went on to say

"You can wrap an old fish in a piece of paper called change, its still going to stink after eight years. Weve had enough of the same old thing."


Yep, that is the rest of what he said. You know, if you go beyond the right leaning blogs you will see that very few people think he was reffering to Palin. Even Politifact.org thinks it is a non starter.
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Old September 11th, 2008, 02:15 PM   #71
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And then he went on to say

"You can wrap an old fish in a piece of paper called change, its still going to stink after eight years. Weve had enough of the same old thing."


Yep, that is the rest of what he said. You know, if you go beyond the right leaning blogs you will see that very few people think he was reffering to Palin. Even Politifact.org thinks it is a non starter.
He may not have been, but the audience sure thought he was. I have seen the whole speech, and I don't read political blogs, I can form my own opinions.

It's a dead horse anyway.
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Old September 11th, 2008, 02:25 PM   #72
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No.

First, youd have endless debate on where the new boarders would be drawn, with each side trying to get the prime real estate.

Then, there would be more debate on who in each group would rule.

Then, there would be a mass relocation of people, with some not wanting to move, and lots of complaining about how the new place they were forced to live was not as good as the place they were forced to leave. Some would refuse to move. They would then face discrimination from the new ruling group.

Eventually one of these new nations would become more powerful than the others and probably try to re-unite the nation, by force if necessary, and wed be right back where we started.
Wow, this all sounds much worse than constant war. There are only 3 ways to solve this. Divide them, totally take over their country, or kill them all. Or we can just leave and let them kill eachother and tell them that if there are more terrorist activities in their country that pose a threat to the U.S., then we will bomb the shit out of them.
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Old September 11th, 2008, 02:29 PM   #73
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Wow, this all sounds much worse than constant war. There are only 3 ways to solve this. Divide them, totally take over their country, or kill them all. Or we can just leave and let them kill eachother and tell them that if there are more terrorist activities in their country that pose a threat to the U.S., then we will bomb the shit out of them.
We could just offer you to them as a sacrifice.

That might work...
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Old September 11th, 2008, 02:38 PM   #74
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We could just offer you to them as a sacrifice.

That might work...
Does anybody think that we will really kill all of the terrorists? As long as we're there, they have someone right on their doorstep to blow up. I actually know someone who grew up there, and he said that killing them all is the only way to stop them. When they kill U.S. troops, they think they are doing right, and it makes them even more pumped up to kill more. FUBAR.
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Old September 11th, 2008, 02:46 PM   #75
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Wow, this all sounds much worse than constant war. There are only 3 ways to solve this. Divide them, totally take over their country, or kill them all. Or we can just leave and let them kill eachother and tell them that if there are more terrorist activities in their country that pose a threat to the U.S., then we will bomb the shit out of them.
Yep, there’s no easy way out, which is why I thought it was a bad idea to go in in the first place.

I think what we'll end up doing is what I call the "house of cards" exit strategy. We’ll get their government and military to the point of appearing to be ready to stand on their own, and then run for the exits, with the hope of getting everyone out before it collapses. Just like the little kid that builds a house of cards and then runs to get his mom to come look at what he build before it falls.

Eventually either a charismatic strongman, or a fundamentalist Islamic group will gain power and well be no better off, and hopefully not much worse off, than we were when we started.
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Old September 11th, 2008, 02:46 PM   #76
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Does anybody think that we will really kill all of the terrorists? As long as we're there, they have someone right on their doorstep to blow up. I actually know someone who grew up there, and he said that killing them all is the only way to stop them. When they kill U.S. troops, they think they are doing right, and it makes them even more pumped up to kill more. FUBAR.
I don't think we can kill them all, but it is completely possible to offer you to them as a sacrifice.

I don't think we should be over there either. I actually have regular discussions with a few Iraqis on an electronics forum, so I'm familiar with their views right now.

Anyway, I think, if we are to stay there, we can't be the spermacidial lube we are right meow (because we can't hope to kill all of the terrorists); instead, we have to be the IUD and create an environment that is impossible for the terrorists to live in (which is still pretty dang hard, IMO).
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