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Old September 9th, 2008, 09:48 AM   #21
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True. But it is even better to head into a situation knowledgeably.
Yep, as stated above:

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He would get another kind of education quite as valuable as the one he’d abandoned, in what used to be called the "school of hard knocks."
That was the path I took.

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Old September 9th, 2008, 10:49 AM   #22
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meh. My education was a means to an end; I needed a degree to do the kind of work I like.
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Old September 9th, 2008, 10:58 AM   #23
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wait, are you guys objectivists?
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Old September 9th, 2008, 11:24 AM   #24
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What I found interesting about the above excerpt is that it sounds a lot like my college experience. I started out going just because that’s what was expected of me and I just wanted to get the hand stamp to move to the next class, rather than trying to learn. I dropped out and spent a year working in restaurants and decided I didn’t want to do that so I went back to school. But the second time I went to learn rather than just get grades and a degree.
Mine too. When I started college, I went for computer networking which I was interested in (I thought), but I found it wasn't for me and started not caring about the classes and ended up one semester with one 3.0 and four 0.0s.

I ended up switching to automotive and consistantly got 3.0s and 4.0s. I wanted to learn that.

I now find myself wanting to take some classes that will help me in my job, not because I have to or feel the need to but because I want to. Technically if I am not trained in something, I don't have to do it so if I take these classes, then I have to do the work. But that doesn't matter to me.
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Old September 9th, 2008, 11:37 AM   #25
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it's a decent read. In high school I took a zen and emerson class. interesting stuff. I haven't thought about that book in years. maybe time to read again.
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Old September 9th, 2008, 12:16 PM   #26
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Mine too. When I started college, I went for computer networking which I was interested in (I thought), but I found it wasn't for me and started not caring about the classes and ended up one semester with one 3.0 and four 0.0s.

I ended up switching to automotive and consistantly got 3.0s and 4.0s. I wanted to learn that.

I now find myself wanting to take some classes that will help me in my job, not because I have to or feel the need to but because I want to. Technically if I am not trained in something, I don't have to do it so if I take these classes, then I have to do the work. But that doesn't matter to me.
So your grades were indicators?

You received poorer marks in subjects that you did not enjoy as much, so I'd say that the grades served perfectly as metrics. They probably helped you reach a decision to not pursue the field you were involved in, no matter how minimally, and then you received better grades when you switched.

Your employer could then view your grades and see that you did well in the subject that you were interested in, which is in the area that he wants to hire you for.

The way I see it, without grades, you might go through the boring process of undergoing a class in which you are not interested, without trying (because there are no punishments) just to say you went through it so you could get a job (because, coming straight out of college, you have no metric to prove your worth to an employer on a resume other than your grades).

I don't see it.
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Old September 9th, 2008, 12:21 PM   #27
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meh. My education was a means to an end; I needed a degree to do the kind of work I like.
I never thought that way. I guess that’s why I didn't do well in school.
And I think that's part of what’s wrong with higher education these days.

While everyone’s reason for wanting to learn may vary, I think that learning should be the “end” of education, and the degree should be proof that the learning took place. Grades should be then means of gauging how well the learning is progressing.

When the grades, test scores, and degrees become the “end” and the learning a means to achieve that end the learning become secondary. I believe this is why we have so many “educated idiots” out there.
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Old September 9th, 2008, 12:28 PM   #28
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When the grades, test scores, and degrees become the “end” and the learning a means to achieve that end the learning become secondary. I believe this is why we have so many “educated idiots” out there.
I see the learning as the means and the end, and the grades as an indicator of how much an individual learned and can apply. In this manner, the grades are not the end, but they "walk alongside" the learning process, if you will.
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Old September 9th, 2008, 01:00 PM   #29
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again, meh.

Degrees have their place, and I did learn some valuable information in scoo, but a degree is not a measure of intelligence. I think it is more a measurement of endurance.
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Old September 9th, 2008, 01:09 PM   #30
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Yep, its a easy read but not life changing (or even picking up to read when I have nothing to do), Then again I read everthing I can. Read it and then you will feel justified when you smack the hippie.
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Old September 9th, 2008, 01:12 PM   #31
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That reminds me I was suppose to give this book back to my friends hippie g/f like 2 years ago.
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Old September 9th, 2008, 01:37 PM   #32
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again, meh.

Degrees have their place, and I did learn some valuable information in scoo, but a degree is not a measure of intelligence. I think it is more a measurement of endurance.
You're right, that is the current reality. I was referring more to how I think things should be in my own little brewmenn utopia.
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Old September 9th, 2008, 01:50 PM   #33
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You're right, that is the current reality. I was referring more to how I think things should be in my own little brewmenn utopia.
YOU are my little Brewmenn Utopia.
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Old September 9th, 2008, 02:07 PM   #34
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again, meh.

Degrees have their place, and I did learn some valuable information in scoo, but a degree is not a measure of intelligence. I think it is more a measurement of endurance.
Still, they are a metric, and that is my point. In my opinion, by abolishing grades, you are just trying to measure something without a ruler.

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Yep, its a easy read but not life changing (or even picking up to read when I have nothing to do), Then again I read everthing I can. Read it and then you will feel justified when you smack the hippie.
That's funny. All the reviews I read said it was life changing.

Me and the hippie have already come quite close to duking it out on a couple of occasions; you're right, I will feel better about it this time.



...how much is admission to Brewtopia? I feel so naked and alone outside the gates...
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Old September 9th, 2008, 02:15 PM   #35
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Still, they are a metric, and that is my point. In my opinion, by abolishing grades, you are just trying to measure something without a ruler.
Abolishing grades would be stupid, for sure. It's just amazing that you can see the escalation of necessary schooling for new hires.

used to be that a high school diploma was good enough;
then it was a bachelor's,
now it seems like it is leaning toward a master's.

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Old September 9th, 2008, 02:16 PM   #36
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I read it a few years ago. From what I remember, it was a guy struggling to work with his child with special needs and how they could interact with the world.

It was alright, but definitely not a challenge to Atlas Shrugged.
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Old September 9th, 2008, 02:21 PM   #37
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Abolishing grades would be stupid, for sure. It's just amazing that you can see the escalation of necessary schooling for new hires.

used to be that a high school diploma was good enough;
then it was a bachelor's,
now it seems like it is leaning toward a master's.

Tell me a freakin' 'bout it.

I'll have my bachelors in December, and I plan on returning to school for the Masters (on the company's dime ) in the spring.

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I read it a few years ago. From what I remember, it was a guy struggling to work with his child with special needs and how they could interact with the world.
Sounds hippie enough...

Wait a frickin' minute! PALIN has a special needs kid! That guy must have been selfish for having the special needs kid because blah blah blah blah mindless dribble mindless dribble mindless dribble barf barf barf hillary hillary hillary everlasting gobstoppers everlasting gobstoppers everlasting gobstoppers poop

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It was alright, but definitely not a challenge to Atlas Shrugged.
I wasn't planning on it.
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Old September 9th, 2008, 02:28 PM   #38
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This all sounds like hippie jibber-jabber to me. They must be making the weed a whole lot stronger than it was in 1977 cause you fuckers are pissing me off with all this shit. Start talking like young, American males. Talk about Jeeps, getting drunk, shooting stuff and pussy for God's sake.

Do you fags even like the pussy? Dayum!
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Old September 9th, 2008, 02:28 PM   #39
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...how much is admission to Brewtopia? I feel so naked and alone outside the gates...
Thats OK, were all naked in here also.
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Old September 9th, 2008, 02:30 PM   #40
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Abolishing grades would be stupid, for sure. It's just amazing that you can see the escalation of necessary schooling for new hires.

used to be that a high school diploma was good enough;
then it was a bachelor's,
now it seems like it is leaning toward a master's.

I'm glad I got in when the price of admission was only an associates.
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