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Old September 5th, 2008, 10:18 AM   #21
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There can be something said about a hollow message if someone is currently, actively engaged in behavior that they are simultaneously condemning however.
Meh, my mom told me not to smoke while she smoked. I listened.

When I worked at some apartments in Detroit, I'd have druggies tell me not to be like them. I listened.

I knew they were involved, and I saw the impact it had on them. I could still learn much from them.
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Old September 5th, 2008, 10:21 AM   #22
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Meh, my mom told me not to smoke while she smoked. I listened.

When I worked at some apartments in Detroit, I'd have druggies tell me not to be like them. I listened.

I knew they were involved, and I saw the impact it had on them. I could still learn much from them.
agreed. however, for less clear cut, and/or issues that resolve around moral choices, the message can often be diminished.

e.g. a former boss, who literally blows a gasket at any criticism is oft whispered about due to his "do what I say, not what I did" mentality as it applies to his now subordinates. he was promoted through the ranks, and for those that have had to follow his work, the work he previously did was/is not up to standards, yet they now are held to an even higher standard.
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Old September 5th, 2008, 10:26 AM   #23
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My opinion only:

I have said this before, it is not about the teenage pregnancy or pregnancy out of wedlock. It is about what one preaches and what one does. Her beliefs (as I understand them) revolve around abstinence, which means no sex before marriage. But her own personal life shows that she has not followed this, nor has her daighter.

So, if you do not practice what you preach, how can you ask others to

accidental teen pregnancy happens to children of many people that preach abstinence. it is not like she was standing there going "don't have that sex". you don't know the circumstances. the rubber could have broke, the pill failed, the sponge didn't get them all.

kids will experiment with sex whether you know it or not. you need to teach them about it. being open about it so they don't take unnecessary risks like using no protection is better than telling them nothing. chances are high their friends are trying it. once they decide to try it, what are you going to tell them? It doesn't feel good? It's not fun? if you find your child is having sex you need to make sure you have open lines of communication about the subject.
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Old September 5th, 2008, 10:45 AM   #24
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Did she have sex before she was married? Probably.
Did her opinions change as she matured? Probably.
Did she advise her daughter to wait? Probably.
Do teenage children do things their parents may have done or adivse against? ALL THE TIME.... just like most of us did.

Does that make Sara a poor parent or poor candidate for VP? NO! It makes her human.
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Old September 5th, 2008, 10:57 AM   #25
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Did she have sex before she was married? Probably.
Did her opinions change as she matured? Probably.
Did she advise her daughter to wait? Probably.
Do teenage children do things their parents may have done or adivse against? ALL THE TIME.... just like most of us did.

Does that make Sara a poor parent or poor candidate for VP? NO! It makes her human.
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Old September 5th, 2008, 11:13 AM   #26
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kids will experiment with sex whether you know it or not. you need to teach them about it. being open about it so they don't take unnecessary risks like using no protection is better than telling them nothing. chances are high their friends are trying it. once they decide to try it, what are you going to tell them? It doesn't feel good? It's not fun? if you find your child is having sex you need to make sure you have open lines of communication about the subject.
I agree, but sometimes talking about it implies that your OK with it. I'd rather my kids just don't have sex until they are old enough to understand the REAL consequences... because even with protection, shit happens. IMHO it's not worth getting off if there is a slight chance you could have a kid your not ready for... even if you have a orgasm the size of a tornado.

But alas, kids aren't going to listen and do whatever they hell they want anyway; so safe practices need to be taught somehow.

I at least want them to be afraid of me finding out though When I was younger, dating a younger girl, she told her parents we were doing it... unsure why... but that was not fun
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Old September 5th, 2008, 11:38 AM   #27
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When I was younger, dating a younger girl, she told her parents we were doing it... unsure why... but that was not fun
Doing it was not fun?
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Old September 5th, 2008, 11:50 AM   #28
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I agree, but sometimes talking about it implies that your OK with it. I'd rather my kids just don't have sex until they are old enough to understand the REAL consequences... because even with protection, shit happens. IMHO it's not worth getting off if there is a slight chance you could have a kid your not ready for... even if you have a orgasm the size of a tornado.

But alas, kids aren't going to listen and do whatever they hell they want anyway; so safe practices need to be taught somehow.

I at least want them to be afraid of me finding out though When I was younger, dating a younger girl, she told her parents we were doing it... unsure why... but that was not fun
I agree 100%. you need to teach safety and explain the mental aspect of it as much as the physical aspect. my first time we were too young to truely understand the responsibility of it. if for some reason you find your child has become sexually active though it needs to be an open communication about it so they are not doing something even dumber.
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Old September 5th, 2008, 11:55 AM   #29
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Doing it was not fun?
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Old September 5th, 2008, 12:20 PM   #30
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accidental teen pregnancy happens to children of many people that preach abstinence. it is not like she was standing there going "don't have that sex". you don't know the circumstances. the rubber could have broke, the pill failed, the sponge didn't get them all.

kids will experiment with sex whether you know it or not. you need to teach them about it. being open about it so they don't take unnecessary risks like using no protection is better than telling them nothing. chances are high their friends are trying it. once they decide to try it, what are you going to tell them? It doesn't feel good? It's not fun? if you find your child is having sex you need to make sure you have open lines of communication about the subject.
But in all of recorded history only one person who claimed to be practicing abstinence got pregnant, that was about 2000 years ago and Iím sure you know the rest of the story.

Your right, I donít know the circumstance, but if the pregnancy was due to the rubber breaking, the pill failing, or the sponge not getting them all, then itís reasonable to assume that abstinence was not being practiced. Also, and admittedly this is pure speculation, itís possible that had they been taught proper condom, pill, or sponge usage that maybe the failure would not have happened, and the unplanned pregnancy would not have occurred.
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Old September 5th, 2008, 12:22 PM   #31
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Dude, there is nothing to discredit. She has no substance. I wish Mccain would have chosen Pawlenty rather then a pretty face.
Put down the crack pipe. I love that your screen name is so completely appropriate for you. Wisdumb. 'nuf said.

She has at least served in an elected position longer than a year and can relate to the average American. Obama is just as out of touch with reality as McCain.
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Old September 5th, 2008, 12:46 PM   #32
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Did she have sex before she was married? Probably.
Did her opinions change as she matured? Probably.
Did she advise her daughter to wait? Probably.
Do teenage children do things their parents may have done or adivse against? ALL THE TIME.... just like most of us did.

Does that make Sara a poor parent or poor candidate for VP? NO! It makes her human.
Is it an example of the failure of abstinence only sex education? Probably
Would have better education of contraceptive use prevented these unplanned pregnancies? Pure speculation, but possibly.
Is this yet one more thing that the media and her opponents can, and probably will, get a hold of use against her? Absolutely!

Which bring us to the real point, while I like her, I liked message and how she delivered it the other night, the more I look into her personal history the more Iím worried that she has brought along lots of baggage to the platform that may overshadow the good she brought.
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Old September 5th, 2008, 12:53 PM   #33
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Which bring us to the real point, while I like her, I liked message and how she delivered it the other night, the more I look into her personal history the more Iím worried that she has brought along lots of baggage to the platform that may overshadow the good she brought.
Wouldn't matter anyway....the media will make anyone look as bad as they want.
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Old September 5th, 2008, 01:07 PM   #34
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Wouldn't matter anyway....the media will make anyone look as bad as they want.
They will, but you don't need to hand them the can of gasoline to throw on the fire.
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Old September 5th, 2008, 01:13 PM   #35
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Which bring us to the real point, while I like her, I liked message and how she delivered it the other night, the more I look into her personal history the more Iím worried that she has brought along lots of baggage to the platform that may overshadow the good she brought.
I liked her too. To me, having a child who has a kid means nothing. I never did drugs and I preached the dangers of drugs to my kids. I know one of my children tried pot. Does that make me a bad person, parent or leader? IMO, no. If someone want throw darts at me, yes.

I think the media and the dems will try to capitolize on this but I think it will fade soon. Comparing these issues to the questionable actions of Obama seems to be apples & oranges. NO person is perfect. Criticizing her because her daughter got pregnant is rediculous.
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Old September 5th, 2008, 02:31 PM   #36
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My opinion only:

I have said this before, it is not about the teenage pregnancy or pregnancy out of wedlock. It is about what one preaches and what one does. Her beliefs (as I understand them) revolve around abstinence, which means no sex before marriage. But her own personal life shows that she has not followed this, nor has her daighter.

So, if you do not practice what you preach, how can you ask others to?

Again, just to clarify, teen and out of wedlock pregnancy do not stop you from being or doing anything.
This position could have come from actual experience. Most people formulate their positions on issues either based on personal experience or outside influence
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Old September 5th, 2008, 02:43 PM   #37
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One of my favorite sayings is "Do as I say, not as I do"
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Old September 5th, 2008, 03:21 PM   #38
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One of my favorite sayings is "Do as I say, not as I do"
In her case, it would appear to be more accurate to say: "Do as I say, and learn from my experience, and not as I did..."

The clearer analogy to abstinence and the hipocracy would be Brittney Spears during her supposed virginal time frame promoting abstinence and all the while getting shagged rotten by who knows how many folks.

Given that it's not as clear cut of an analogy to current behavior I don't think much will be made of it from the Dems, and the media has other more inflammatory things to cover.
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Old September 6th, 2008, 08:35 AM   #39
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This position could have come from actual experience. Most people formulate their positions on issues either based on personal experience or outside influence

So, with her personal experience, she should know that abstinence is not always what happens. And to that end, people should be prepared. Birth control, pregnancy options, pregnancy and child birth/rearing education.

She has shown she is not interested in supporting any of that for the people by using her line item veto power to delete support for teen mothers from her states budget.

Again, it is not her pregnancy or her daughter pregnancy which is the main issue, it is how she deals with underage and premarital sex in her legislative efforts that concerns me.

Here are my thoughts. We preached abstinence to our kids as well. We married after she became pregnant, so there are lessons learned.
But, and here is the kicker, we also stressed that if it was going to happen, how to handle it properly. Sex education should start at home and we gave our kids all of the information we could find to prepare them for the real world.
We did well with them. Heck, my daughter did not date till well after high school and married him.

I am not in a position to influence law. But if I were, I would start with abstinence, but I would also make sure that information is available for everything else sex related (within reason, you perverts).

I hope this makes sense, it is early on the weekend and I have not had my second cup of coffee yet.
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Old September 6th, 2008, 08:41 AM   #40
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Put down the crack pipe. I love that your screen name is so completely appropriate for you. Wisdumb. 'nuf said.

She has at least served in an elected position longer than a year and can relate to the average American. Obama is just as out of touch with reality as McCain.
All you can do is resort to name calling?
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